News: BOTM 58 - Starts 16 September

[jesusin]

As for settling , I'll be as brave as Conquistador63 and I'll share my thoughts. I am divided between two plans.

Plan1:

Spoiler :

Plan2:

Spoiler :

Everybody: I'd appreciate your sharing your thoughts/criticism about them.

 

[Jastrow]

My latest attempt got the Great LIghthouse in 1960 BC.

I played it out to 100 BC (a bit sloppily), and at 100BC I have:

9 cities (2 on Islands)
32 populations
168 bpt @ 100
95 bpt @ break even (55%)
GL, Maori in capital (Can I do that, and also buld Oxford there, or is Maoi+Palace already the national wonder limit?)

Tech wise, I have Currency and MC, both nothing else.



I would like to here from Deity players if this is reasonable? Or will I be too far behind once I meet th other AI?



At Jesusin:
I prefer plan 2 to plan 1.

Commenting on plan 2:

I like moving city 3 1E. It reduced maintenance a bit, and gets fish in the first ring (helps health a bit earlier, since cap already has crabs). I am actually planning to settle this as my second city. With a WB made in the capital, it gets started up quicker and provides a happy (I will whip a terrace for the border pop.)

I also like splitting city 4 into 2, one each on the north and south coast. With GLH, both cities shoudl be profitable. One gets fish in the first ring, and the other gets stone in the first ring.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

I think I just have to face the fact I'm going to get beaten like a rented mule. :suicide:

 

[High King J.J.]

GL, Maori in capital (Can I do that, and also buld Oxford there, or is Maoi+Palace already the national wonder limit?)

I have to guess that you mean the Moai statues. You can build 2 national wonders in your capital, for example Moai and Oxford. The Palace does not count as a national wonder here. On the other hand, Forbidden palace counts as a national wonder so you could have only one other in a city that has FP.
Since you asked Deity players for an opinion I remain silent because being a High I'm obviously only at monarch level

 

[Revent]

I am a bit confused about the riflemen bit. Are you being sarcastic or have you actually given the AI's riflemen to start with???

 

[Mylene]

Well tbh, i would advice all none.deity players to be flexible
Very important thingy in these games, thus i think knowing our island is rather unimportant.

This start will be tricky. On top of having only sea food (assuming SoM), no fishies and 4f really is not that great.
If we go for GLH it should be almost impossible sneaking a settler in between, cos we need..worker(s) for chops, boats, 60h lighthouse, and a bit barb defense too. Looking at maybe 60 turns time (less if unlucky), settlers would have to wait.

Another approach would be GLH slowly, not delaying expansion too much and not falling apart if we lose the race. Not sure what i will do, unfortunately our map masters picked a start that can lead to all kinds of results, not optimal for gotms.

 

[shakabrade]

My latest attempt got the Great LIghthouse in 1960 BC.

I played it out to 100 BC (a bit sloppily), and at 100BC I have:

9 cities (2 on Islands)
32 populations
168 bpt @ 100
95 bpt @ break even (55%)
GL, Maori in capital (Can I do that, and also buld Oxford there, or is Maoi+Palace already the national wonder limit?)

Tech wise, I have Currency and MC, both nothing else.

I played 45 minutes on test map until 1AD (supersloppy mode, so sloppy I forgot to assign scientists to get an Academy) and had 11 cities (3 on islands), 46 population.
Bpt ~220.



So let's isolate the cause of your slower start:
I whipped settlers and overflowed into buildings, 1 Settler into GLH too, so I had 2 cities when GLH was built around 1960BC.

Tech path Fishing, Mining, BW, Sailing, Masonry and so on.
Opened with partial build of worker until Fishing, then WB, then worker built mine on sheep and prechopped forests for Lighthouse, settler and GLH.

You also don't need many workers. 3-4 are sufficient. You don't need roads except to connect resources.

Fogbusting isn't a problem and you can do with 2 fortified quechuas (you can add one more to the west if you feel jinxed). Cities are the best fogbusters, so expand quickly. Remember, also, that you don't need military in cities below happy cap.


I hope any of these tips were of help.

Edit:
@Mylene

Squeezing a settler before GLH wouldn't be possible if HC didn't have IND trait.

 

[jesusin]

I pesonally am planning on using 2 fog busting Quench, combined with cultur borders, and hoping to deal with the 1 or 2 barbs which will span inbetween.

I'm doing the same. I think we can handle many barbs this way, as long as they are all Archers or Warriors.

At Jesusin:
I prefer plan 2 to plan 1.

Commenting on plan 2:

I like moving city 3 1E. It reduced maintenance a bit, and gets fish in the first ring (helps health a bit earlier, since cap already has crabs). I am actually planning to settle this as my second city. With a WB made in the capital, it gets started up quicker and provides a happy (I will whip a terrace for the border pop.)

I also like splitting city 4 into 2, one each on the north and south coast. With GLH, both cities shoudl be profitable. One gets fish in the first ring, and the other gets stone in the first ring.

Thanks for your ideas.

If I follow both your suggestions, I am (almost) back at plan1, ain't I?

 

[jesusin]

Extended tests show:

7/12 Buddhism success
7/12 Hinduism success
Barbs go back when they see borders up to T45, they enter border T46.


I need the saves before my RL-time runs out!!!
EDIT: Oh, yeah, here they are. Good luck everybody.

 

[Jastrow]

I played 45 minutes on test map until 1AD (supersloppy mode, so sloppy I forgot to assign scientists to get an Academy) and had 11 cities (3 on islands), 46 population.
Bpt ~220.

Thanks Shakabrade, your post actually makes me think my start is pretty much on par then...

I also had forgotten to get the academy in that run through, so my numbers were without one. I had 9 cities at 100BC, with 1 settler in a galley, and another one built, so could make it to 11 by 1AD easily.

So I just need to improve my tech rate a bit. I am trying a new run now, with a bit more focus on scientists, so that should help. I will ee how that goes.

For the rest of your description, we are doing very similar things, including, for example, mining the sheep.

EDIT:
Actually, my in my latest test I did founf 11 cities (but #11 seems to costs more than it provides, so maybe 10 is better), and put up scientists to produce an academy.

This time at 0AD, I have 221 bpt at 100% and 110 at break even. I am 7 turns from CS, and have 31 pop.

I then went into worldbuilder and gave myself a unit near a city of each AI so I met them all next turn. They all wanted metal casting, but had every other tech I owned (actually two were missing Alpha, so I could not see what they had). By the time I meet them for real, I will be so backwards I will get nothing :-(

 

[WelshGandalf]

I played 45 minutes on test map until 1AD (supersloppy mode, so sloppy I forgot to assign scientists to get an Academy) and had 11 cities (3 on islands), 46 population.
Bpt ~220.



So let's isolate the cause of your slower start:
I whipped settlers and overflowed into buildings, 1 Settler into GLH too, so I had 2 cities when GLH was built around 1960BC.

Tech path Fishing, Mining, BW, Sailing, Masonry and so on.
Opened with partial build of worker until Fishing, then WB, then worker built mine on sheep and prechopped forests for Lighthouse, settler and GLH.

You also don't need many workers. 3-4 are sufficient. You don't need roads except to connect resources.

Fogbusting isn't a problem and you can do with 2 fortified quechuas (you can add one more to the west if you feel jinxed). Cities are the best fogbusters, so expand quickly. Remember, also, that you don't need military in cities below happy cap.


I hope any of these tips were of help.

Edit:
@Mylene

Squeezing a settler before GLH wouldn't be possible if HC didn't have IND trait.

Thanks for this. No-one asked earlier when I asked for advice on how to get GLH ASAP. Ind trait will help for sure.

 

[shakabrade]

@Jastrow

True, 4 turns make a huge difference but still not 14 population. I built HG. Strong wonder.
In second sloppy attempt I got 13 cities and 230 bpt with GLH, ToA and got 2 Great Prophets.
However, I took a lot of huge risks with barbs, just to see where it can go. Something unadvisable in real game. There is no point actually playing this anywhere farther than GLH since in Real game, you may have a contact and that will change almost everything.

@WG

No problem.
Just pay attention to early micro. Literally a single hammer can make a difference of more than a turn. Especially if you don't pay attention to whip overflows.

 

[neilmeister]

As for settling , I'll be as brave as Conquistador63 and I'll share my thoughts. I am divided between two plans.

Everybody: I'd appreciate your sharing your thoughts/criticism about them.

Plan 1 looks better to me. It makes much better use of the lakes.
In Plan 2, city 7 is completely redundant except to grab copper.

 

[Jastrow]

True, 4 turns make a huge difference but still not 14 population. I built HG. Strong wonder.
In second sloppy attempt I got 13 cities and 230 bpt with GLH, ToA and got 2 Great Prophets.
However, I took a lot of huge risks with barbs, just to see where it can go. Something unadvisable in real game. There is no point actually playing this anywhere farther than GLH since in Real game, you may have a contact and that will change almost everything.

Agreed. The last time I tried to 1AD, and was still at the same population. The HG of course would close a lot of that cap, as it could realistically add 10 pop.

Where did you build the HG? I have not been able to squeeze it our of the capital in time. (It has been going in around 300 BC in my tests.) Lacking a second early production city, I am not sure how to get it done. Perhaps at cow-pig with forrest chops?

And yes, I know that the real game will diverge soon enough. I am doing this not only as a test for the real game, but also as a general excercise to improve my rexing skills.

 

[Jaybone]

2000 BC TGL + 1 settler

Tech order: Fishing->Mining->BW->Sailing->Masonry->Animal Husbandry

Build worker until fishing comes in, then switch to workboat
Work forested spices building workboat. When finish workboat, net the clams, 1 turn into 2nd workboat, then finish worker working spices and clam
worker mines sheep while building wb, should time up to work mined sheep, and can work 2 wbs while building 2 quechas, prechopping 1 forest, and building mine on forested GH. switch to slavery while WB moving

once 2 quechas out, build 3rd workboat, work a 1f2h tile to speed workboat

Put the chop from the mine into a settler, then switch back to lighthouse after grassland hill chop, grow to size 5 working 3 seafood and mined sheep, prechop other 2 forests. get lighthouse to where you can whip it with 20+ overflow, then switch to building settler so you can whip that as well

Whip lighthouse, overflow into TGL, send all your chops into TGL, regrow to size 4 in 2 turns while working 2 seafood and mined sheep, then whip settler with overflow into great lighthouse.

you're down to size 2 but both seafood 1 turn and 1 seafood 1 mine next turn (or go heavier minem, whatever), and you finish great lighthouse with your last chop. The great lighthouse is in at 2000 BC, your settler will settle pigs city next turn, and all your initial resources are improved. And, 2 turns from AH so your worker can start pasturing pigs when he gets to them near 2nd city.

Ok, that's the best I could come up with for TGL, I'd love to see what others got. That's how my game will start anyway.

 

[shakabrade]

A bit different but I agree you can't get better than this. I decided do prechop one more forest since my plan doesn't involve working that mine.
This is screenshot from test game:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

A bit creepy how someone somewhere in the world is doing the same thing.

 

[Jastrow]

Very similar to the GLH for me as well. I am actually going Quencha first to grow, and then WB. I get the worker slighly later, but grow a tad earlier. Judging from both posts above, it works out bassically identical. I also am getting TGL at 2000BC, along with one just completed settler, have chopped 4 forrests to get there and mined the sheep.

I am going Wheel-Pottery before AH because I am using the first settler on the silver site to get an extra happy and set up an early lib with 2 specialist for the academy. This was I have pottery in time for terraces for border pops. 2nd settler should then go to pig/cow, and AH should be just in time for this.

I am still trying to work out a way to get HG anywhere near in times. It keeps falling in ~500 BC to an AI in my tests, and I have yet to get anywhere close to that date.

 

[Mylene]

So...i got told off last gotm for saying sumthing like "map is hard enuf for me with forests", and here peoples post whole starts I get it guys, easy peasy logic..

 

[Jaybone]

I think the diff is that we haven't started so we're constructing these scenarios based on the knowledge available in start shot.

Also, I want to be able to claim that, whoever wins, they stole my idea

 

[Jastrow]

I cant speak for the others, but I have not even downloaded the save yet. Everything I am discussing is from pre-game testing, and that is a key difference.