NEWS: FFHOTM First spoiler, Turn 150

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Vulcans, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. Vulcans

    Vulcans Prince

    Aug 9, 2005
    This is a spoiler containing information up to the turn 150.

    Please do not read this thread until you have reached the year 150, or ended your game.

    Reading Requirements:
    1. Must have reached at least 150 (or been defeated prior)
    2. Must have contact with all civilizations on the starting continent, and know the locations of their cultural boundaries.

    Posting Restrictions
    1. Please do not post any details about any events or any land mass aside from the starting one, or any that can be reached by galleys. Discussions of "in a far away land" are fine.
    2. Please do not post any details about any events/resources past the year 150.
  2. Vulcans

    Vulcans Prince

    Aug 9, 2005
    I acknowledge this was a challenging start.
    The intention was to create a fun interesting challenge in the game, challenges provide the best learning opportunities (my game increased in levels from the challenging C4GOTM above my normal playing level, while too simple maps only provided limited learning). All players are at different skill levels, so what is fun for one might be too easy or too hard for others. I was unsure of the difficulty people normally play at, I admit this was probably a bit challenging for the first game. We can also have easier games in the future, being too easy on the other hand can be boring for some players, so I guess a variety is best to keep everyone happy.

    Everyone also plays different styles of games, some maps it works out best to be a war monger, others the builder approach works best, playing different races and different styles of games on different styles of maps would hopefully provide great learning opportunities. this map most likely needed some early warfare to get the space to be a builder, and might be challenging for people not used to early warfare.

    Congratulations for everyone who participated! :goodjob:
    I really hope everyone got a feeling of achievement for playing the best they could under tricky starting conditions. It’s an achievement if you play the game in a better way than you normally do, irrespective of the game outcome.

    Hopefully some good spoilers will prove insights into the effects of different playing styles, providing means for discussions on what worked and didn’t work. I think these constructive and reflective discussions can be especially useful for people who found difficulties. :D
  3. Pelaka

    Pelaka Chieftain

    Aug 29, 2006
    Moving my feedback to the proper thread. I talk about my whole game, but all "far away lands" where only relevant for tech trading so I think I'm in the rules.

    I really enjoyed the scenario... I lost, but it was fun. I wouldn't want to do this every game, but an occasional "trapped rat" scenario is a great change of pace.

    Spoiler :

    Key elements of my game were as follows:
    1. My first move was to the NW to make a city to get the gold and the cow. Once I got there I saw the dragon and decided that I had to draw a line here and engage in a culteral battle to secure my northern boarder. My first build order was "warrior, warrior, obilisk" to get defenders and pump my culture further. The cultural boundary went back and forth for awhile, but eventually stabalized with the cows inside my boarders. However, I was not able to work the cows as it was in fireball range of the dragon. For most of the game this city was never able to grow beyond size 4 due to poor land and lack of irrigation.
    2. My next cities were the two other places discussed in the pre-view thread (SE 1st, SW 4th). My 3rd city was one square west of the rice to help secure my northern boarder with the dragon (this helped win the cow fight) and my western boarder with Hippus. I wanted to place this 4th city farther east to get the incense in the desert, but Hippus beat me to that spot by 1 turn.
    3. At this stage I was trapped in a little 4 city kingdom. On the north the dragon was a barrier between me an Devito. My eastern boarders were blocked by Hippus and the Elves. I was hugely jelous of the Elves... their starting city was in a perfect choke point to isolate a huge forested peninsula for their private use.
    4. Trapped in as I was, my economy really suffered. It was clear that my lands would develop alot slower than the other three civs on my continent, and having no room to grow it was clear I was going to fall way behind the tech and growth curves. So my strategy had to focus on short term survival.
    5. Then I had a lucky break... elves founded Leaves, and Devito and Hippus both quickly adopted it. I was able to adopt leaves myself and thus avoid an early, disasterous war with Devito or Hippus. This gave me the time I needed to grow.
    6. Techwise, I went first to writing, than basic economy, than archery, than used great sage lightbulbs to get to sorcery, than finally grabbed firebows. This gave me the military might I needed. Near then end I eventually made contact with the civs on the other continent and was able to trade my magic techs to them to flesh out my economy tecs.
    7. For defense the dragon ended up helping me alot. Due to the unending flow of goblins/orcs I was able to level a huge number of warrior defenders. Each of my four cities had 3-4 warriors each of level 6+ fairly quickly. Because I was using a specialist/great sage research strategy I was able to put my slider to 0% without hurting my research too much and quickly upgrade them first to archers, than firebows as those options became available.
    8. Near the end of this process Hippus finally invaded, followed shortly after by Devito. During this war I was able to hold all of my cities. At the start I was about 50/50 warriors/archers, about 10 adepts I was leveling (I had sorcery, but didn't have the caves built yet), and was almost done researching for firebows. By setting the slider to 0 I was able to finish upgrading to archers, trade oversees for the city defense tech and upgrade eventually to firebows and sorcerers. I was able (barely) to hold all of my cities, but just about every improvement I had was pillaged.
    9. During the war, Hippus somehow killed the dragon and took the city. However, at this point the culteral war I had been waging paid off. My boundaries immediately expanded to surround the city, and two turns later if flipped to join me. I was able (just barely) to rush some archers over to hold it.
    10. At this point the tide turned. Each city was well defended by a few highly promoted archers, and I had about 10 sorcerers and 6-8 firebows and I was able to go on the offensive. I used a small stack to secure the northwest and just nuke to death any Devito that tried to invade, while I sent a large stack out to reduce Hippus to rubble. I was well on my way to completely obliterating Hippus and Devito when the elves got an alter win.

    Looking back, I don't see how any strategy of trying to hold near the starting area would win. The position is crippled, and you are eventually forced into conflict with Devito and Hippus. All the while the elves in their perfect starting position march to an inevitable alter victory. Moving north or west from where you start is impossible. If I moved east I would have been trapped between Hippus and the elves and I'm not sure that would have been better. The only way I can think of to really escape this would be to do an early war rush of either the elves or Hippus and try to quickly wipe them out to get room to grow... but this isn't a very good civ for that.

  4. Angel-Julia

    Angel-Julia Fall from Heaven2 ROCKS!

    Sep 11, 2007
    I have been a bit of a lurker here, but decided to write a spoiler here to describe my adventures.

    This was a challenges, but I feel satisfied that I have accomplished quite a good start. This is fun. :)

    Amurites had quite an adventure, with quite a few tales to tell, here’s the story:

    Spoiler :

    Once a pon a time there was a small band of wandering Amurites, looking for a place to make their new home. The settlers saw a glimpse of gold in the hills, it was so tempting, glistening in the sunlight just waiting to be taken. One step closer and they froze in their tracks, a roar echoed throughout the lands, and behold there was a mighty dragon blowing smoke in the distance, the intended settling spot wasn’t as good as originally planed, for defending would be quite risky, defenders chasing away barbarians would always have to worry about getting to close to the dragon. Time for a new plan, noticing a couple of nice clams in the sea they decided to build Cervedes on the south coast between the two clams.

    Exploring with both warrior and scout profited with mysticism, causing a revolution to god king in turn 5. this would help with production, in the 1 and only city.

    The scout came back with bad news, our neighbor Tasunke was just around the corner. The amurites children had always heard of stories about the wrath of the unstoppable Hippus horsemen, this was a time for consideration, the amurites had planned to be a peaceful builder civilization, but they knew that the Hippus wouldn’t let them be peaceful, the elder of councils followed the suggestion of one of the more aggressive members, to strike them down before they can grow and maintain constant pressure on them until they can be eliminated. this had to be done soon, before even settling a second city. That made the early build queue fairly straight forward: warrior, warrior, warrior, warrior, settler, work boat, warrior etc.

    Early research consisted of agriculture and exploration. Nearby there were some black and white spotted animals, but the amurites had no idea what to do with them, they just went moo and did nothing else. The thought of slaughtering these animals never crossed their mind, they were too busy collecting sea shells and investigating how to write, and make bronze weapons to ever bother thinking about those funny black and white spotted animals.

    At turn 13 an opportunity presented itself, one worker was building a farm in the wheat 2 squares north of Althriol the worker. He was a peaceful farmer, hadn’t hurt a soul, only to find himself knocked unconscious, his farm burnt, and carried away to a strange land where he was forced to be a slave to the wills of Valledia. The captured worker had nothing to do at carvedes, as as valledia didn’t have any worker technologies, he started complaining, saying he wanted to go home to Althriol, for he missed the northern lands, so valledia said he could travel to Althriol, but had to build a road along the way. Escorted by a warrior he set out building a connection to Althriol, paving the way for rapid army re-enforcements. In 26 peace was declared with Hippus.

    Barbarians would pass freely past the dragon, protected by the dragon and Doviello, but chasing them would only cause the putrid smell of cindering flesh. The young boy Alanus was convinced there should be a way past the dragon through the northern mountains, he was constantly teased by the other children, they would call him chicken, scared of the dragon. one morning Alanus’s mother woke up to find his bed empty, he was nowhere to be seen. Then a look of horror came across her face, noticing in the far distance, there was Alanus passing over the distant northern mountain ridge with his scout brother Roshalt (Roshalt would always look out for Alanus, scouting the road ahead before Alanus steps into danger). They were too far in the distance, the villages raced to the mountains, but they were gone over the ridge. the people searched the mountain ridges for the remains of the two boys, but they were nowhere to be seen, surely they wouldn’t last long against the wolves, Orcs, goblins, lizard men, and all sorts of other ferocious monsters.

    The safe place for a second city would have been on the river edge north of the wheat, but Valledia the crazy decided to make a rash move, sending the settler up the road to settle next to Tasunke, founding Udenerat (T47) on the hill in the river bend, giving floodplains, incence, wheat, and some nice mountains for production. This would provide the extra visibility for a spearhead on Hippus. Unfortunately that made the boarder situation challenging, with two distantly separated cities, fog between, and a road connecting them, also providing fast transport for the barbarians through the fog.

    Mining was eventually researched, providing two sources of copper, which would ultimately increase the production of both cities. Meanwhile a fishing boat was sent off to discover more of the world.

    Nimarail was later founded on the rivers edge with the wheat, this would later provide a great person farm, despite it’s lack of production.

    Peace loving Tasunke was learning about the warmongering Valledia, he now sent a warior to protect his worker, going out to re-build the farms, whinery, and gold mine. But that wasn’t enough, the war trumpet sounded a second time, now three times as many warriors decented on the worker, and warior. Another worker from the second war. The warriors also pillaged the lands, aiming to slow down Tasunke. But the warriors fear was growing, they’ll have to strike soon against the cultural Altheriol before they get horses. Just a few warriors more.

    The army moved in on Altheriol, but just at that moment, the first hippus horse came out of the stables! Fear ran through the ranks of the warriors, for they knew that attack would be absolute suicide. As they turned to the hils to flee they saw a figure moving in the distance, It was dressed in orc clothes, covered in mud, with scars all over the face. Drawng their weapons they prepaired for this other creature coming from the hills. Just before the they charged on the figure battle leader Jaron noticed a glimse in the eyes, in a moment he dropped his club, it was his long lost cousin Alanus. God only knows what he had been through, for he was covered with unimaginable scars of unheard of beasts. Alanus was no longer the same, driven mad from a life in the snowy mountains fighting creatures, he lashed out at the cowardly crowd. Alanus yelled out: “you must go forward and face this horsemen, for more will come.”
    “But that is certain death, we don’t have a chance against the horsemen”
    Alanus growled, “if you flee from the horsemen I shall slaughter you all myself”
    Alanus watched and laughed as he watched his cousins march to their death.
    The proud Hippus horceman cleaned his blade with the satisfaction of the slaughter, not even considering the seemingly old figure sitting on the hill laughing. Then suddenly the figure was gone… everything was silent. Suddenly there was a from behind similar to that of a bear, and Alanus then Alanus was at the horse mans throut, ripping into the flesh with his teeth. With that Altheriol fell to the Amurites, leaving only Conrod-mor settlement on the eastern coast.

    The smoke of the battle cleared, only to uncover new terrors, the barbarian king Orthus had obviously heard the sounds of the battle. Alanus had seen the barbarian king before in his journeys to the west, and knew he couldn’t handle him alone in such an injured state, so he fled back to the amurites settlement Udenerat.

    The city gaurdes of Udenerat were glad to see Alanus, expecting him to defend them from the highly promoted Orthus, but Alanus left the city to the east, letting the inexperienced gaurds defend Udenerat. Orthus attacked across the river to udenerat which was on the hill. Alanus watched as two warriors fell, and just then when Orthus was weakened, he made his move, taking down Orthus, taking his axe, and gaining even more experience, taking him to a level 9 unit (no reloads). After defeating Orthus, Alanus wasn’t worried about the Hippus horsemen, after taking back Altheriol from the barbarians, he went to take on the horsemen in Conrod-mor. Attacking once every 5 turns, he killed the horsemen faster then new ones could build, finally finishing off the Hippus in 115.

    Ciriail was founded in the desert on the hill north of the elephants, as the elephants would later provide more happiness when there was a chance to research hunting, but in the meantime there are more important things to research. Glorairine was originally planned to be up near the dragons gold hill, but the culture pushed out, meaning that there wasn’t a viable settler spot within 2 tiles of the gold. Hence forcing gloriarine to be on the edge of the desert, SE of the rice, with evermore’s corn in the greater circle. Unfortunately largely overlapping with the GP farm on the southern river, and the production powerhouse on the mountain in the desert. Obelisk was instantly installed, to fight a culture war against evermore for the corn.

    The country went into an economic mode, building the land, running city states, nationhood, agriculture, apprentice. A rush straight for message from the deep and mindstapling (water manna +whip), before many worker tecs like bronze working, horse riding, writing. That meant that the country was under gaurded for the time, just a few warriors and the mighty level 9 Alanus warrior with Orthus axe. Founding the octopus overlords in Nimarail was an important step, providing future water manna to turn the vast deset into viable land, ultimately greatly benefiting the 3 desert cities. I then built form of the titan and national epic.

    Now is big time for the whip, farms everywhere, but not really a specialist economy, there wasn’t any time for specialists, only time for serious whipping, often whipping 3-4pop every 10 turns in all cities.

    A diplomat from Arendel came, saying they’ve found a new way to live close to nature, and wishing us to join the peaceful way of life. we responded saying we were enjoying whipping and drowning people. this didn’t go that well, and they closed boarders, just 3 turns before we had a zelot ready to share the wisdom of drowning people.

    The amurites gave all 4 of our manna, and our only food resources for free to soften up the diplomacy table, well adepts are more then 10 turns away, and at the moment diplomacy is more important then the manna bonus or the food resources. So far I’ve started training zelots, and sent to Arendel and to a far away land. Arendel obviously won’t switch to Octopus overlords as she’s founded the fellowship of the leaves, but the spread of the religion will mean I can keep an eye on her later, I’m hoping that the far away country will eventually convert to octopus overlords, as I know I’ll surely need a ally later when I plan to call a holy war.

    The Amurites people are nearly rioting due to neglect, they believe that Valledia cares more about the other nations then about their own nation. All this zelot production has stunned my and infrastructure military production, OO has only spread to 2 of Amurites cities, as the AI needs to be converted first, meaning that cities are only kept from rioting by violent whipping. And most food resources are given away.

    At turn 150, So far horse back riding and bronze working hasn’t been learnt, a few drown support the minimum warrior guards. Lizard men often roam the lands, with the warriors scared to step outside of the cultural protection of the city. a small build up of experienced warriors in the north are getting ready to be upgraded to sward men to make an attack on Charadon, and a collection of drown in the capitol for a amphibious assault on Charadon.

    Currently researching HBR, then plan to go for writing, then COL to trade+ courthouse, hopefully trade to get BW. Then a sidetrack to priesthood, so I can spread OO to my own cities via cultists instead of zelots building a OO temple in the process(by then i should be finished converting my neighbor), also getting cultists for healers in my upcoming sward men/drown assault on Charadon, and getting earlier experience for later inquisitors/high priest. Then onto sorcery, then to arcane lore.

    Turn 158 (closest save game to 150)
    -Contender class (Monarch)
    -Score: 666 (recently dropped from pop loss from mass whipping)
    -4Th place
    -Destroyed Hippus (about T115)
    -Destroyed Othurus
    -Founded Octupus overlords
    -Built form of the titans and national epic
    -Boosted to friendly status with Arendel and abroad, despite having a different religion (generous diplomacy effort), hopefully a late game war ally.
    -Currently spreading zelots to Arendel and abroad.
    -7 Cities, total population 47 (recently dropped drastically from mass whipping.)
    -Researching about 100beakers/turn when at 0gpt.
    -Military: 1 work boat, 4 worker, 11 warriors, 3 Zelots. (this will soon ramp up for the assault on Charadon)

    Objective: Domination victory

    I’m going to have to strike the strongest AI fast to slow down their research and stop them from getting an altar victory.

    Spoiler :

    Hopefully greasing up the AI with all my resources will keep them off my back long enough for me to spread the religion(I’m hoping elves are loyal and won’t backstab a friend), build infrastructure, take out Charadon, by then I plan to get wizards and govanon to turn on those elves as soon as possible. If my investment in zelots pays off, then I will have a ally in the end game, making divide and conquer much more effective. Starting a holy war will also break the AI's strong friendship, and so slow down tec trading, slowing their research, and giving me a bit more time before they can get to omniscience. I expect the first battle with the elves to be challenging, but I think I will have to attack the elves before they get even further ahead, and use superior battle tactics to compensate for the 5:1 power ratio in their favour.

    manna nodes:
    my expansion has givven me access to 6 nodes on top of the starting 3 manna. (11xp, with form of the titans ii'll be training level 4 adepts/wizzards)

    The plan: 3 Fire, Chaos, body, mind, death, water.

    the final one will be either air or earth. Air has the advantage of massive dammage with malestorm which will be useful when i get to level 3, otherwise going for earth providing crush, rust, and stone wall. i might venture down the conjurer line later in the game, so earth would also provide three earth elementals.

    I'm on the right track, wish me luck!

  5. evlutte

    evlutte Vowel Salesman

    Aug 16, 2006
    vulcan, have YOU beaten this on higher the higher levels?
  6. Vulcans

    Vulcans Prince

    Aug 9, 2005
    I played contender, at the year 150 I'm in a good position for a victory, having beaten the Hippus early with a warrior rush. Founded octopus overloads, converted a overseas ally to my cause for a late game holy war, started to transform the desert into plains, and then was just about to destroy Charadon in the year 150. but details of that and following war victories will have to come in the final spoiler.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the more veteran players completes this map on challenger level, I know in vanilla C4 GOTM there were always were a couple of really incredible players a couple of levels above me.

    How did you go?
  7. jan030

    jan030 Chieftain

    Aug 9, 2006
    Utrecht, Netherlands
    first game at monarch......I dont like the Doviello :( Lost in 163. Will try again ;)
  8. Vulcans

    Vulcans Prince

    Aug 9, 2005
    "Einion won't break his truce. Hyborem will attack another civilization. If that civilization is us, we will likely die. Do we have something Hyborem wants, something we could trade for peace if we needed it?"

    "What would a demon want except to kill?"

    "Is there a reason you suspect that he will attack the Lanun or the Bannor instead of us?"

    "No, like most predators he will go after the weakest of his targets, that is us. Ready your wizards for war, it will come to us. Slip the firebows from the coastal borders to those we share with the Infernals."

    Dain nodded, understanding the situation. Understanding that diplomacy was lost, he turned hs mind to war.

    Can the underdog survive? with diplomacy, or tapping into the latent power within coming from the blood of Kyorlin. Maybe i should have made the scenario with Einion and Hyborem. well at least it is still a story of survival of the underdog through diplomacy, or magic when diplomacy fails.
  9. Mahatmajon

    Mahatmajon Prince

    Dec 13, 2005
    Chicagoland, USA
    I'm trying to not read this thread even as I'm posting in it. I do love the 'OTM' concept and appreciated Vulcan's work in getting this together so I tried again.

    I founded in the logical capital spot (given the neighbor to the north) that has 2 clams, cows, & 2 hills (1 of which pops copper).

    Nothing too special really, I took my time getting a 2nd city out, converted to leaves as soon as it was spread to me because hippus/elves were following it. Built a 2nd city on the river East of the capital as OO was founded into it.

    From there I built a whole bunch of bronze warfare/apprenticeship/training ground drowns (5xp) and started a war on hippus. Took their city at rice/floodplains, captured their capital, & made peace because I had been in OO a little too long for the elves liking - they declared war on me!

    The elvish attack was 1 or 2 hunters and then an archer of leaves. Now that I'm at peace with Hippus, have their capital (4 cities total, 2 science/2 producing), & City Defense II archers in all cities I've turned my attention to the elves. No doubt this will be a drawn out battle. I may just build up some troops, wait for catapults, then beat on them.

    One of things that bothered me about the early versions of FFH was how easy it was to rush to warfare (for city raider), have buildings/civics for +5xp units, & take out the AI with any level 2+ CRII units. It's gotten a lot better now that warfare is further down a tech path and harder to beeline for without missing out on other things, but there still seems to be a significant gap between when I get to warfare and when the AI starts effectivly building city defenders. I don't think the elves will be able to tech fast enough to get better than leaves archers anytime soon -- I should be able to outlast them and take a few cities while waiting for catapults to take out their capital.

    Doviello wasn't really a concern - I likely could have taken them out with drown units instead of attacking Hippus and will still be able to with CRIII units after my elf war. Most likely from here I'll try to take and/or burn 2-3 cities, make peace, crank out some drown units, convert to leaves, then attack Doviello. I'll definately be at war for the rest of the game, though, which makes for a LONG game.

    Summary (without game at hand)
    Year ~150
    Playing the 'middle level' (emperor?)
    4 Cities (2 conquered from Hippus)
    War with Elves
    Founded & following OO
    Middling in score with Elves out to a large lead (surprise surprise with a giant area of forest all to themselves...that's another thing...what's up with that?!)
  10. tharg

    tharg Warlord

    Dec 6, 2001
    Saw the second fish to the south west which came the obvious point for the first city.

    Build something like Warrier/EC/Warrier/Boat/Boat/Settler/Boat/Warrier/?/Settler/Warrier/Settler/

    Built second city to the SE near fish and wheat. Third city next to horses in desert and fourth city to the north , next to the rice and the barbarian cultural border.

    Research something like. Myst/Exploration/Fish/Craft/Mining/Agric/AH/Writing/HR/Trade/WoL/Divi around 170 researching Sorcery. I popped a sage at some point for KofE.

    Caught leaves from Arendel and decided to stick with it. Around 130 started stock pilling adepts, to turn into flamethrowers to take out Tasunke when I get to sorcery.

    So far peaceful.
  11. loki1232

    loki1232 Loki

    Jan 16, 2005
    New York City
    Well I didn't do so well since I found my starting position pretty cramped. The elves are just huge, and the barbarians are rampaging around the north. The hippus were wiped out by the barbs and the elves took over their lands. Acheron is keepign me from attacking the doviello. All in all, a tough start. My plan is to found the veil, (but stay as FoL so the elves like me), then switch to the veil and summon and become Hyborem.
  12. Angel-Julia

    Angel-Julia Fall from Heaven2 ROCKS!

    Sep 11, 2007
    how did people generally attack doviello? drown walking across the bay? path through the mountains or beating the dragon for a faster route?
  13. Chambers

    Chambers Chieftain

    Apr 23, 2007

    ha ha sorry i just do not buy it... how on EARTH can you beat those elves or even be placed in a position to beat them? on a couple of games now i have tried a warrior rush to both elves (11 warriors couldnt take there hillside, riverside capital with 3 warriors in, didnt even kill one warrior infact) and the hippus (i managed to mostly take them out, but the extra time i wasted killing hippus stregenthed the doviello to an insane degree). And no matter the stratagey you always end up with a super powered acheron because the hippus throw units at him at every stage of the game like there no tomorrow.

    I think if you wanted to create a scenario that was THIS lop sided you should have done just that.... a scenario, i was under the impression GOTM was supposed to be a random game to compare scores between players.....
  14. Silverkiss

    Silverkiss NekoChan

    May 19, 2006
    Rio de Janeiro - RJ - Brasil
    He didn't said he beat the elves, he said he beat the Hippus and was almost beatting Charadon (Doviello).
  15. Chambers

    Chambers Chieftain

    Apr 23, 2007
    hmmm? what do you think?
  16. Vulcans

    Vulcans Prince

    Aug 9, 2005
    yes, a good position for a victory means that i am on the right track, being firmly established, the first hundred moves really decides the game.

    i'd love to tell you all about my adventures with the elves, but that happened after 150. so that will have to wait till the final spoiler.
  17. psychoak

    psychoak Warlord

    May 15, 2007
    Chambers, beating the elves is easy. Beating them and the other continent before one of them gets an altar will be a neat trick, but the elves themselves are no problem. You can defend easily, particularly if you scorch the corn resource and keep the roads down across the desert. First time through, I killed every incursion they made with two lunatics, saverus and some firebows, they never got any pillaging in and I never lost a unit to them on defense. I'd just take them out with the lunatics and saverus and use fireballs to keep the survivors damaged so they wouldn't attack. Once I got conjurors I was killing every unit they sent.

    You can either warrior rush the hippus and kill them, and have a very slow early advancement, or you can rush OO and convert them. Either way you're in a defensible position, govannon and a bonus hema with OO are enough to drop their cities one by one using conjurors. Your only real threat from them will be shadows, 3 rangers with hawks and replacements in your cities is a must for any attack group. Other than that, stygian guard and firebows are more than enough firepower to run defense and offense will be a piece of cake with damage casters in the mix.

    If you want to try again, taking out the hippus is quite easy. Hit mysticism, fishing and mining and run godking while spamming warriors. From that southwest corner it's very easy, and you can also move up and take the gold mine and only one clam and have an even better production center with mining. Just build one settler to take the river spot and use it for your city expansion and keep spamming those warriors. I was making one every two turns and I buried the hippus before they had archers with just one city. It's really not a very hard map to get going in. It's just a hard map to finish in time. I'm surprised you found a leveled acheron though, in four games, he never once got above level 3, I'd kill him whenever he took decent damage and they never hit before I had either lunatics as OO or diseased corpses as AV, more than enough firepower from them to drop him.
  18. Vulcans

    Vulcans Prince

    Aug 9, 2005
    actually my warior rush on the huppus didn't slow my advancement, as i got 2 workers, which is worth 6 wariors. Once getting their capital it really helped, giving the gold as I didn’t bother with a culture war against the dragon. This still let me get OO (which really helps with the desert)
  19. evlutte

    evlutte Vowel Salesman

    Aug 16, 2006
    I had vry good results from sneaking my settler past the elves at the very beginning and using their whole lovely forested continent. I just let them found FOL and converted to it. By now i've toasted hippus, Doviello and most of elves, The far regions are nowheres near the alter victory.

    Now i'm bored of the slaughter and will probably not finish.
  20. giddion

    giddion Crusader

    Aug 7, 2007
    Melbourne, Australia
    Ok it is about time I posted....
    Contender Save.

    I went for the gold (greedy) even with the dragon, I figured it would be a good shield to the north. In hindsight it would have been better to place my city 1 or 2 squares to the south and forget the cow. But once again greed... :D

    It was very hard with many barbs coming from the north, fires burning within my lands, difficult to secure food resources and establish farms.

    I was struggling from the beginning, loosing my scout to a lizardman after securing the hut near the elves. i lost a few warriors to the continual flow of barbs from the north and by turn 50 Orthus was sighted over the bay in the tower (See picture) with some serious 5 star promotion. Building of the Elder Council was put on hold and the churning of more warriors began.

    Orthus attacked my city on turn 55 devastating 1 of my best warriors. With Orthus damaged and no sign of reinforcements from the north, it was time for a counter strike. With only a scout and a warrior it was die or die. I attacked with the scout to try and weaken him a little, an ineffective attempt. With a 67% chance of success, my warrior made a stand and took the battle to Orthus. My warrior won the battle. (no reloads)

    With Orthus's axe I had a strong defender to protect me from the north and allow me to focus on getting some wizards.

    After getting the basic techs for my economy and food production I focused on GPP. Producing 2 great sages, the first from GPP which I used to create his great building and the second from writing used to get KotE.

    I was focusing on Magic and this was where I was way ahead of my counter parts. But they had gained technology well in advance of mine across the board.

    After getting KotE I aimed straight for the runes, in hind sight from this thread OO would have been better, but it is what you know. I converted straight away. This was about the same time as Fellowship of the leaves was introduced by the stinking elves.

    The dragon was keeping Tanaki (spelling wrong) busy and i was developing a friendship with Charondon, which was to be short lived but that is another story.

    i was not offence, very defensive beliveing that when I get my magic rocking I will be a threat, this comes later.

    All round a pretty boring first 150, with the only highlights being;
    Killing Orthus
    Securing gold and a strong mining peninsula
    Adopting and discovering runes
    getting 2 GP

    The next 150 brought with it more challenges and some more highlights but a continued defensive approach. More on this in the next installment.

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