News: GOTM 22 Pre-Game Discussion

[LowtherCastle]

@dalamb: You'll need a worker to connect your metals. No way to steal them other than to capture a city with a wkr in it.

There will be no metal on the plains hill SW of settler unless ainwood put it there. Metals don't appear on riverside tiles otherwise. (This is also why you'll need the worker.)

The only cities you build should be production cities connected to your iron and they produce nothing but praets (and an axe or 2 for defense against axes, perhaps).

The only reason to keep cities is 1) they have enough population to poprush 1-2 praets (after which you abandon...), and/or 2) they are dynamite prod cities connected to iron and closer to your victims.

The starting position has 5 possible copper/iron sites visible. After moving the warrior SW you'll better know how many possibilities there are for the plains hill. Then you roll the dice... If ainwood is evil, then the copper is outside the plains hill fat cross but inside the starting position fat cross. He doesn't seem evil, but only time will tell.

 

[dalamb]

@dalamb: You'll need a worker to connect your metals. No way to steal them other than to capture a city with a wkr in it.

Duh. This sort of brain glitch is why I'm still a newbie. That plus not enough centuries playing Civ. I think I had a misinterpretation about "roads not being useful" when it was just "roads between cities not being useful".

Hmm. How far can one push deductions from "ainwood is not evil?" Would it really be evil to put a resource inside the starting position fat cross that was excluded if you moved SW? If ainwood is not evil, does that mean founding a city in place is always a reasonably good idea? If ainwood is not evil, then ...?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Hmm. How far can one push deductions from "ainwood is not evil?"

Sorry I mentioned it...

No, the answer is, some things are evil, the rest are good fun...

Barbs/AIs won't pillage roads that aren't in someone's cultural boundaries.

 

[sebtanic]

This game is going to be a LOT of fun! In Always War the AI at least has a chance of winning... which makes things a lot more interesting!! I think only the best are going to beat this game...

One thing though, what is this about no metal on river side tiles?? Have a look at one of my test games, which was a cool one by the way as I had iron by the side of my capital and the sea in my back. The map is randomly generated and we have iron W of Rome and bronze NW of Orleans, both on river side tiles:

 

[JackOfClubs]

Everyone, DON'T PANIC!

The Always War setting makes it a bit more difficult for those not used to fighting early wars, but it does not otherwise change the behavior of the AI. Specifically:

1. The AI is not any smarter than usual. They can still be relied on to do all of the boneheaded things that we are used to exploiting.

2. The AI is not any more cooperative than usual. It is true that they will get the mutual conflict diplomacy bonuses, but they will still have all the usual plusses and minuses. This means, for example, that they won't be able to cross each other's territory without open borders and sometimes they will refuse to open their borders just as usual. (And it won't even be possible until they start to get Writing.)

3. The AI personalities will remain the same. So, for example, Bella will still hate anyone that doesn't adopt here religion and Toku will still tend to isolate himself, regardless of how much diplomacy plusses he has. I doubt that even Monty will be crazy enough to declare war on anyone, since he will already have one war with you, but you never know...

4. Raging barbarians complicates matters, but barbs still need fog to propagate and posting sentries will prevent them from coming your way. This has the obvious additional advantage that you will see the AI before they get too close (although you will need more of these as the game goes on).

5. War weariness only occurs when fighting outside your territory, so early defensive battles will benefit you and hurt the AI (though Monarch level gives them a substantial discount).

6. Early scouting, workers, improvements and settlers are still essential, but you will need to defend them more. There is some sense to the strategy of not scouting beyond your nearest neighbors (in the hope that the AI beyond them might not find you and get involved in wars on their own) but certainly having as much intel as possible is as valid as ever.

Well, you get the point. My experience playing test games shows that all 8 AI do tend to find you fairly early, but that they leave you alone until about the time the human barbs start coming in. And once I get Iron Working, things get much easier.

I never play as Julius because I don't like his characteristics and his starting techs don't make any sense to me (Mining and Fishing but no Wheel? Come on! Anyone ever heard the expression "all roads lead to Rome"?) so I have been trying to teach myself to adapt to his strengths. But this is a challenge, not a cause for despair.

 

[Boyd]

Lot's of good discussion on very a salient points. As an irregular in the forums I am not up on the finer points. And I have only played AW once.

I think it will be a good (and fun) learning experience.

Thanks gang.

Even if it ends in ignoious defeat.

Damn... forgot the "m".

Moderator Action: Posts merged. You can use the "edit" button to fix spelling etc.

 

[Boyd]

okay... just tried a test game (Hunting-Archery-BW-IW) and found a couple possible patterns by the AI:

2. several AIs were in very close proximity to my start position;
2. the AIs were not aggressive (even though one was Genghis)... they immediately went for archery and with a few archers in defense they put out a settler-with-two-archers and put them right down by my borders;
3. the city sites chosen by the AIs had at least one strategic resource (stone and iron) and one had a luxury.

With four woodsman promoted warriors there were no serious incursions into my borders by the time i built ny first settler and discovered iron. unfortunately Egypt had found it first just outside my city radius.

Is this AI expereince what others have found?

 

[JungleIII]

Just downloaded the game and will get stuck into it.

Don't know which way my strategy will go - my only attempt at a test game really didn't pan out when the stack of dooms come fast and furious...

Guess I'll be busy tomorrow on Father's Day (in Australia) finding some Iron!

Cheers...

 

[Diamondeye]

I think this will be a learning experience I think we should settle in place, and when I get to my computer with civ4, I might do a test game where I go BW-IW-Wheel at first, although I think pottery is essential as well (a few cottages and cheap granaries for whipping out more preas).

Any comments?

Post Scriptum: @JackofClubs: Good advices. thanks.

 

[dalamb]

I think this Adventurer level question is legal, since I haven't downloaded yet and the info is public, but if I've erred please delete ASAP:

How many turns on Monarch before barbs show up? I've become moderately used to using the usual Adventurer worker for exploring for few turns, and would like to know how long it's reasonably "safe".

Or, is that totally irrelevant, because the nearest (and hostile) neighbour might be so close the worker is toast if it explores any?

I was thinking of moving the worker S-SW to get a better look from that hill before committing to moving the settler 1SW or not.

 

[Htadus]

I
How many turns on Monarch before barbs show up? I've become moderately used to using the usual Adventurer worker for exploring for few turns, and would like to know how long it's reasonably "safe".

Or, is that totally irrelevant, because the nearest (and hostile) neighbour might be so close the worker is toast if it explores any?

This is just a guess but in a always war I would not do that at all. What if he move into a hill or forest and find the roaming archer Lexad was talking about was just waiting? You just lost your Adventurer advantage. I would not go any more than 3-4 turns. My advise is to use the guy for improvements.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I've become moderately used to using the usual Adventurer worker for exploring for few turns, and would like to know how long it's reasonably "safe".

The animals appear pretty soon, too. I would't risk it past 5 turns.

 

[oyzar]

JungleIII's save game is not the same save as the gotm right? I mean it is a totaly different map? cause it looks very similar?

 

[dalamb]

Test games usually are arranged to have the initially visible area be identical to the posted one, varying "only" in what's not visible.

For the worker survey, the 3-4 turns and 5 turns suggestions both allow an initial move or two, so I may do that and immediately start doing normal workerish stuff right afterwards. Unfortunately, I misread the descriptions and mentally interchanged the archer and the worker, so my specific plan is nonsense, but I might manage to think of someplace else for him to go.

 

[oyzar]

ok. thanks.

 

[Lord British]

Ouch,This is gonna be fun but tough. Only my 2nd game this year and my 4th GOTM all told.

Im assuming after GOTM21 that we hopefully have been assisted by the map design and there may be some single tile choke points and friendly mountains (fingers crossed)
If this game is winnable how do you folks think the easiest win will come about, im assuming conquest but what do you think?

Good luck all!!

 

[dalamb]

I tried a couple of approaches to Jim's practice game, resulting in a question:

Someone said early archery was essential -- but how early? Despite not wandering too far from home (to avoid contact) I was found by 5-6 civilizations within the first 20 or so turns, but there was no combat except with animals. So one could put off archery for a while. So maybe hunting-AH for the pigs and cows; where in BW-IW-wheel would archery go? at the end? before IW?

I guess wheel before IW if bronze is accessible?

With adventurer, there's a worker right away so early AH makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?

 

[Balbes]

If this game is winnable how do you folks think the easiest win will come about, im assuming conquest but what do you think?

Yes, I think conquest will be the easiest.

The most interesting ( =hardest) win condition is probably Fastest Diplomatic, though I'm unsure if many players will choose to compete in this category for that very reason.

 

[DaviddesJ]

The most interesting ( =hardest) win condition is probably Fastest Diplomatic, though I'm unsure if many players will choose to compete in this category for that very reason.

Why is that harder than conquest? Wouldn't you just almost-conquer, and then research the techs you need?

 

[Balbes]

The hard part is balancing your military spending, to keep your AI rivals in check, against your research, to reach MM faster that your human rivals.