News: GOTM121 Pre-Game Discussion; Saves Available!

[civ_steve]

GOTM 121 Pre-Game Discussion!

Please Note: This is the Civ3 PTW Game of the Month. It MUST be played using version 1.27f of Civ3 PTW, the last version. If you installed Civ3 Complete, the default game executable is Civ3 Conquests, but you do have access to the Civ3 PTW executable. You may have to navigate into the Civ3PTW directory to start it.



I'm still not getting much free time, and I'm off for vacation tomorrow, so I felt I had to get this out now or it would be another 2 weeks and it's been way too long already. So, you'll play Russia! And I thought, what better than a nice big cold game, so the map settings are cool and Large. And there are 11 Monarch AI's. Did I mention the Raging Barbs? Oh well, something for everyone! Good Luck!

The saves are available >>here<< July. 7th. You will have two months to play and submit.


Civilization: Russia
Rivals: 11 preset
Barbarians: Raging
Difficulty: Monarch
Land Form: Pangaea, 70% ocean, Large map.
Geology: 3 billion years old, Cool, Normal






Conquest-Class Bonuses:

1. Free Alphabet
2. Extra 100 Gold
3. 2 Extra Spears

Open-Class Bonuses:

1. None

Predator-Class Challenges:

1. AI get 4 Bonus Unit Support
2. No Pottery
3. AI get 2 free Pikes (except one AI, which gets 1 Pike and 1 Worker)

A reminder: do not post any game information to this thread after you have downloaded the save file. Absolutely no spoiler information for this or any GOTM is to be posted in this thread!

 

[Memento]

You will have two months to play

with results to xmas?
if it continues like this we play soon game of the quarter.

sry steve, but here are many people which can/will help you. pls take this help.

Edit: Now i saw the "Discussion on Length/Frequency of GOTMs"

but i saw no result?

 

[templar_x]

everyone here is more entitled to say that than you, Memento ;-)
i mean, after all the two of us are supposed to finish a duel, and i think your participation was sth like 1 turn per 2 months in this year. or mabye even per 3 months...

in other words: our fan community is going to die before we finish the game at this pace. go hurry up!
t_x

 

[Memento]

tststs
thats another story in another forum.
the hardest level here is Sid. the level templar needs more time. (gerade bei sovielen blöden Fehlern meinerseits)
i search for a solution to turn the game.

 

[templar_x]

but you have got that "other story in another forum" in your sig! ;-)

and i really do not like that last sentence of your post.

now if i think twice, better concentrate on this gotm.

t_x

 

[templar_x]

sorry for hijacking the thread

i started the game, but by accident i dl the open-class save, when i wanted to dl the predator. now tr1cky, i think it is him, will call me names why i dared to play open again...

but very likely i won´t have the time to finish anyway, as always.

t_x

 

[Megalou]

I picked Open on purpose.
I have also chosen predator most of the time, but it is a personal thing.

 

[templar_x]

sure, but honestly, on Monarch and as a EXP civ not starting with Pottery is a *very* little issue.
t_x

 

[Acronym]

Giving this one a go, after my attempt at COTM91 went a bit pear-shaped.

Going for Conquest-class, as I normally play Warlord or Regent, so Monarch is a new one for me. Fingers crossed I can avoid defeat long enough for the spoiler thread to start...

EDIT: Also, I meant to ask - are the maps for COTM/GOTM hand-made by civ_steve? If so, I'm impressed at the dedication keeping these things going.

And is there a handy guide anywhere on this site about adjusting to PTW from playing Conquests? I've never actually tried PTW before...

 

[Megalou]

sure, but honestly, on Monarch and as a EXP civ not starting with Pottery is a *very* little issue.
t_x

It is of little matter. When the predator level can provide a challenge for winning the game at all, it works at its best. When not, I don't find it very exciting. I must confess I have a "dream" to some day get an entry in the All-time Fastest and Highest table, and if I believe there is a chance, I choose Open, occacionally. There is nothing in the rule set opposing it, but if I should beat someone to a medal solely because this someone chooses predator while I choose open, I will probably feel a little bad about that.

 

[templar_x]

exactly the same with me. only that i hardly ever finish games these days...
t_x

 

[Lanzelot]

And is there a handy guide anywhere on this site about adjusting to PTW from playing Conquests? I've never actually tried PTW before...

Here is a detailed guide on what changed from PTW to C3C:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=104294&page=2

If you read it "backwards", you'll be able to deduct, what changes when going from C3C to PTW...

The most important points are:

• Industrial workers work at 2x the speed (not 1.5x like in C3C). That makes industrial the most powerful trait (agricultural does not yet exist).
• MGLs can rush wonders, and Armies are pretty much worthless. So if you get an MGL, rush a wonder, forget about forming an Army... (unless you need the Heroic Epic for 20K).
• Philosophy does not give a free-tech, so the Republic slingshot does not work.
• The Temple of Artemis does not yet exist. This makes fast domination games much harder.
• The corruption model is different. First it allows "Ring-City-Placement", which is a very powerful tool to fight corruption. (Read it up in the Military Academy on this forum and use it!). And second, the Forbidden Palace is much more powerful than in C3C, it basically sets up a second core. (Many times a good strategy is: build it asap in a first-ring city and then disband the capital so that it jumps into a (previously prepared or captured) AI core.)
• The priority in which order artillery hits things, has changed: in C3C you hit units first, then improvements and finally population. So bringing some artillery in order to weaken the defenders makes sense sometimes (on higher difficulty levels). In PTW the order is improvements first, then population, then units. So using artillery for offense does not make any sense at all. If you bring a small stack, you will only destroy all useful improvements (markets, graneries, etc) and reduce the town to size 1, but not shave any hitpoints off the defenders... So you have to fight full-strength defenders anyway and you'll capture completely worthless size 1 towns... If you would really want to weaken the defenders before an attack, you would have to build an insanely huge artillery stack, and then the shields would be much better invested in more Cavalry...
• Chopping a forest takes 10 turns instead of 4 turns. (For non-industrial workers.) This usually makes chopping a forest early on a bad idea.

These are the main points that dictate a different kind of strategy when playing PTW as compared to C3C.

A little detail, which will have a huge impact on the current GOTM121: the Russian Cossack does not have blitz! This means this unique unit cannot be used as a "Leader Generator" like it can in C3C.

 

[Più Freddo]

the Forbidden Palace is much more powerful than in PTW

... than in C3C ...

it basically sets up a small second core. (Many times a good strategy is: build it asap in a first-ring city and then disband the capital so that it jumps into a (previously prepared or captured) AI core.)

It sets up a quite equal second core, provided that you have the cities and improvements in place. Note that the rules require you to have OCN (optimal city number) cities in the target area before you jump the palace! OCN depends on map size. This is to stop the exploit to jump the palace to a very distant location, which would give minimum waste and corruption to all cities closer to the FP than the closest city to the Palace:

The corruption and waste around the FP is dependent on the local city proximity to the actual Palace, so if you e.g. have an RPC5 around the Palace (recommended, often happens if you use a previous AI capital), then all cities at RCP5 or closer to the FP receives minimum corruption and waste.

Theoretically, you could go for RCP6 or RCP7 around the Capital, but at some point it must then be judged an exploit. If you use RCP6 or more, then there are several tiles around the Capital which cannot be worked by any city. I would say the exploit starts, mildly, even here.

A good strategy if you think you are going to set up a second core is to found the first core using RCP3, a very tight placement, select one of the inner-ring cities for the FP (start building from scratch) and then for the outer cities consider RCP5 around this city instead of some ring around the capital. For after the jump, this will be the first-core centre. That some cities are closer than 5 to the FP doesn't matter, see above.

Jump Palace using a leader rushing the Palace or by abandoning the Capital, just as in C3C.

 

[Lanzelot]

... than in C3C ...

Oops, of course. Corrected and I also added some more points I forgot yesterday.

 

[Più Freddo]

And for non-industrious tribes, chopping lumber is very time-consuming in PTW.

 

[tR1cKy]

a large pangea screams for a conquest
btw, without Pottery nor Alphabet, it will be a rough climb to maps and republic. hopefully, the expansionist trait will help filling the gap.

 

[Più Freddo]

@tR1cKy: Maps?

 

[tR1cKy]

@tR1cKy: Maps?

I think Map Making is worth researching anyway, because in my opinion the combo of Great Library + Great Lighthouse is still the best way to achieve a golden age. Alternatives would come too late.

But actually i'm re-evaluating the whole thing. In order to outscore the infamous black horde, i could be following an unconventional strategy this time.

 

[templar_x]

i knew this was coming. i am telling you: it was AN ACCIDENT!

why not the Colossus instead of TGLight?

i have started and can already tell that there won´t be many details from my side. i wrote a very detailed log and obviously forgot to save it, so it was gone when my #$§%%&-computer decided it needed a restart for some crappy software update.

i am already really keen to hear what tricky´s unconventional strategy will look like...

t_x

 

[tR1cKy]

i knew this was coming. i am telling you: it was AN ACCIDENT!

why not the Colossus instead of TGLight?

Actually, i was mainly referring to the gold and silver medal in GotM 120. They'll be back, and they'll be black, and i want them to look in disarray at the red score that will float above them

I don't think Colossus would be a viable alternative because it comes too early. Either you build it quite soon, hampering the initial expansion phase to a point that, personally, i consider unacceptable, or let the AS beat you to it. But the game dynamics may change. If, say, it is build by an AS nearby, then things may change. I just see it at a low-probability scenario.

About the unconventional strategy, i don't even know myself yet I'm just looking at past games and exploring possible alternatives, but it may as well end up into nothing.