Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by leif erikson, Oct 25, 2010.
I think the AI war weariness is capped...or lowered...no matter how many troops they suicide.
Wait.... so you still get war weariness in an always-war game? And the only way to get rid of the weariness for a certain opponent is to wipe them out? Doesn't this become quite a big pain in the butt?
(Never played an always-war game before... hurrah for GOTM introducing me to new types of games!)
I think the war-weariness are reduced by 1 point every turn even if you are at war: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181512
It could be. But I have made similar claims about the existence of a Shangri-La in at least 3 pre-game discussion threads now, and they were always wrong. I'm just trying to stick with my pattern of being wrong about Shangri-La.
Actually, it was more a matter of coming off of our Stone Age game where we were in a Tundra Region to start and most people still had a very successful game, from which I decided to make my settling suggestion. I would think that an Award-winner from that game, such as yourself, would remember the possible merits of having several Riverside Tundra squares supported by a Food-based Resource, essentially forcing you to build early Cottages, instead of delaying them as is the normal common practice.
Sure, go ahead and hole-up in your paradise. You'll have to spend a good number of turns finding the "ideal" location to settle. Meanwhile, the choice of where to settle in Shangri-La will be more obvious for me due to the facts that I will have already "used up" a Grassland Sheep Resource and will also have had ample time to scout with our Scout before finding the ideal location for the Shangri-La City.
But they DO "know," because for them, "knowing" is using their programming, and they are programmed to "know" where you are in certain ways that are different from map visibility.
They did in a Hub-map Always War game that we played a couple of years ago, even though some of them had to go really far out of their way (first going south-west or south-east, then up north to our hub, all the while through winding, narrow passageways). And that was without them ever having "spotted" our Cities.
Thanks for that link! According to the War Weariness article, fighting on a square* where you have 100% Cultural dominance will mean that you will get 0 War Weariness for said battle.
* I am referring to the square that gets used for the combat--i.e. the square whos Defensive values are used in the combat calculation.
Which just goes to show that settling a City outside of Shangri-La, especially, say, a capital that comes with the Palace's Culture, can help us to secure some defensible territory that will make War Weariness a non-issue, when it comes to defending from many of the AIs' stacks.
A very interesting set up...a great deal will depend on just how large the Shangri-La valley is. If there is enough land for 3 cultural cities, you could just huddle behind your choke point and try to reach victory before the AIs overwhelm you with superior tech or launch to space.
Otherwise we have to go on the offensive at some point. Monarch level Always War is going to be a very stiff challenge, even with the presumed choke point to protect the capital. Razing cities will not be enough, because the opened land will just be resettled by the other AIs. So we will have to take and hold cities, with 6 rivals sending forces against us. Ouch.
Are the AI's Always War with each other, or is this just me being hopeful
You're being hopeful.
not only aren't they at war with each other, but with the WHEOOHRN thing, they will most probably never declare war on one another
+ they will love each other for mutual struggle
so their trades will go up and their tech rate will climb
too bad there are no GG in vanilla.
Is it true that we aren't at war until we meet a civ and they don't hate us until they meet us? So, wars between AIs are possible before they meet us. I don't suppose this will help us much.
Should we try to found a lot of religions. To help with our happiness and deny them to AIs? Or is it better to let the AIs found and spread the religions for us. Maybe conquer a nice shrine eventually and maybe they will fight.
We are industrious. Should we try to build a lot of wonders? Or is it better to build military?
No great generals, no great wall, no mausoleums...
yep all true
the no real help thing is true too
I don't like AW, because well, there is no trade no diplo no nothing except war (and some empire management)
If we presume that the tundra-hill-forest is the only way into this valley, then a capital outside would be the weakest defended position.
Forest-hill will give 75% defence-bonus, while a capital on a hill will get 25% + walls/culture, but walls can be bombarded making it the weakest defended spot and an obvious target.
I will go for defending the forested hills.
Anyway this is going to be a very interesting game!
Deckhand, this is correct. We are on a pangaea, so presumably all the AIs will find us fairly rapidly. As soon as we meet them, we declare -- and they start accumulating mutual military struggle with all the other AIs we are at war with. The AIs will form a trading bloc and share their techs and trade routes, while we have no trade partners or external trade routes. Always War is tough.
Getting some defenders in place ASAP is crucial, plus establishing basic worker techs. Early religion is a huge gamble, even though we start with Mysticism. But getting a religion is very useful for happiness -- it's not like the neighbors can get any more offended! And again, no trading is possible, so no resources from the AIs. Add war weariness which only goes away when an enemy civ is destroyed, and managing the happy cap can be very tough.
Hopefully Shangri-La has many happy resources available.
It is almost never wrong to build military in Always War. But watch support costs...keeping the economy healthy will be difficult.
Whether to build wonders depends on your strategy for victory -- cultural victory may need multiple wonders for the base culture. Whether specific wonders are worth the hammers invested...is up to you. National wonders can be vital, especially unlocking the Heroic Epic and getting it in place early.
Also remember that Industrious boosts forge construction. If the valley of Shangri-La truly does glitter with precious metals, the happiness will be even more welcome than the hammer boost.
Always War is definitely a variant form of Civ. And the empire management aspect is rather different than most Civ games. I would not care to play it very often. But I haven't tried an Always War game in almost a year, so this GOTM is very well timed.
A question, since it has been a while since I played vanilla Civ and not BTS: what effect would a fort have on the forested hill chokepoint? In BTS you could build it without removing the forest, and the extra defense can not be bombarded. Is this true in vanilla?
Wellllll... since not a lot of people seem to be buying my idea of only spending 1 turn to move our Settler, you're pretty much giving up on an early Religion by moving to Shangri-La.
Allow me to share share a warning from one Always War game where I founded Confucianism:
An AI that I had yet to meet managed to get Confucianism auto-spread to him in that game. Since I was running Confucianism as my State Religion and since I was the founder of said Religion, I immediately got visibility of his City (we're not talking about BtS here--Shrines work differently in Vanialla and give you visibility of member Cities) and therefore I met him.
By meeting him, he immediately declared war on me. So, the spread of Confucianism directly caused a war declaration to occur.
Sure, if you want to try for a Cultural Victory.
Otherwise, as always on a high difficulty level, pick one Ancient Wonder and don't try and build the others. Since common mantra suggests adding 1 to 2 difficulty levels for the Always War setting, that would put us at Emperor to Immortal, so this advice should apply. The good part is that if you follow this advice, then you'll be far more likely to build Military Units and thus the relative difficulty will retreat a bit closer to Monarch. Or, so we hope.
Perhaps not, but you can also attempt to use relatively-abusive tactics, like Oracling Civil Service and beelining Military Tradition for early (pre-Rifling) Cavalry.
You also don't have to worry about Vassals, but they probably wouldn't have much of an effect even if they were present, other than to give free happiness to the biggest, baddest AI.
Oh yeah, don't forget to switch Civics when NOT in a Golden Age.
We are Spiritual, so that's not an issue.
But good general point for vanilla.
And thanks for the replies.
Pardon my dotage, but are you saying that civics switches (except if you're Spiritual) always cause anarchy in Vanilla Civ, even during Golden Ages? What about in Warlords? How does everyone keep track of all these little differences from BTS?
If I find the time to play this I think I'll go for the run-away-and-hide-in-the-hills opening.
Wonder spamming is actually a very valid strategy for AW. The point is that expansion and commerce through cottages and trade routes is severely crippled, but representation with lots of settled great people is quite capable of generating the required tech lead to launch an offensive.
Hi everyone. I'm relatively new to CiV and this is the first GOTM I've decided to try playing. I downloaded the HOF mod linked in the first post and copied it to the /Mods folder. However, when I try to load the save, I get a message saying "The save file you have selected is protected to ensure the assets in your mod folder have not been changed". I remember seeing a download link to some sort of asset checker (which might have been for the BTS version of the mod, not sure, this is all still a bit new).
I'm on a Mac, and I'm pretty sure I got the appropriate version of both the mod and the save. I know this is more of a "technical support" question and this might not be the best thread to ask these questions, but any help would be appreciated.
I would post up a new thread on this forum with your issue - the xOTM guys have come up trumps with solving issues before, hopefully they can do so again.
The Civics F3 screen tells you how many turns of anarchy you will have.
When Spiritual or in a Golden Age (BtS only) it will say 0 turns. So, always nice to check.
One way is to play all the xOTMs so you are familiar. Another is to check the CFC Warlords and BtS Info Center pages to remind yourself what changed. Or you can just remember.
Or be like most people and forget something each game.
^Thanks, this is helpful. Let's hope we have stone and marble. (And horses and iron and calendar resources etc etc).
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