News: GOTM78 Pre-Game Discussion

[civ_steve]

GOTM 78 Pre-Game Discussion

Time to drop the difficulty down to the other end of the spectrum - Warlord. I've been somewhat busy with taxes (yuck!) so this has delayed me a day. I'll give you a day to discuss, if you wish, and the game will start on the 16th of April, and go an extra day to the 16th of May. Have Fun!

Civilization: America
Rivals: 8, preset
Barbarians: Restless
Difficulty: Warlord
Land Form: Pangaea, 70% ocean, Standard map.
Geology: 4 billion years old, Normal, Temperate

Conquest-Class Bonuses:

1. Free Alphabet
2. Extra Worker (start with 2)
3. Bonus Galley

Predator-Class Challenges:

1. No Pottery
2. AI get 2 Free Defensive Units and 2 Bonus Unit Support
3. Galleys cost 40 Shields

A reminder: do not post any game information to this thread after you have downloaded the save file. Absolutely no spoiler information for this or any GOTM is to be posted in this thread!

 

[megistatos]

I know it says Pangea, but

Spoiler :

could this possibly be an island start?

Just a hunch.

I probably won't finish GOTM 77, and I'm not sure if I'll find time for this one either.

Worker will go to the BG, and the scout north.

 

[Chamnix]

GOTM 72 was a "pangaea" also on warlord .

Based on the bonuses/challenges, I'd say it looks like a pretty isolated start. I don't think there is an awful lot to discuss in the pre-game - just move the worker and the scout to confirm our isolation, then race to Map Making.

 

[stvnjsph]

Looks like ivory - scout to the north - south looks isolated
Steve

 

[denyd]

Let's see, Warlord, Pangaea and no pottery & galleys cost 40sh for predators...that just screams GILLIGAN'S ISLAND

Anyway, worker to BG to road & mine (need the commerce first), scout north to check around and if nothing great shows up, settler founds Washington in place. That wastes the whale, but it's between the whale and the BG. Research will be Alphabet->Writing and then either to Philosophy & Map Making or the Republic Slingshot.

 

[Chamnix]

it's between the whale and the BG.

Hmm... now you've got me thinking about that. I usually pretty much ignore whales and settle coastal cities more based on what land tiles they need, but under despotism, the BG is 2/2/1, and the whale is 2/1/3. It may be worth moving to get the extra commerce if the scout finds no other resources .

 

[MarleysGh0st]

Hmm... now you've got me thinking about that. I usually pretty much ignore whales and settle coastal cities more based on what land tiles they need, but under despotism, the BG is 2/2/1, and the whale is 2/1/3. It may be worth moving to get the extra commerce if the scout finds no other resources .

Wouldn't settling in place waste the +2 commerce of the ivory? How about moving the scout SW then N? That would show us if there's any advantageous terrain to be claimed by moving the settler S or NW and letting the worker start with building a road on the ivory.

 

[DWetzel]

Worth the waste of one worker move south to see if there are any other fish or fish-like byproducts off the coast there? The SW scout move is helpful, but I think it leaves off the ocean spot SSE of the non-bonus grassland. Not that there's anything likely to be useful there.

More importantly, I think it's important to fly the scout north (that's the first move), to see just how screwed we really are.

 

[Chamnix]

Wouldn't settling in place waste the +2 commerce of the ivory?

Kind of - under despotism, the capital city tile will provide a minimum of 4 commerce (3 after despotism penalty), so you won't gain any extra commerce by settling on the ivory.

But if you don't settle on the ivory, how often would you assign a citizen to that tile to get that commerce? Since it only provides 1 food, you probably won't be working it until size 3. Under despotism, the ivory will only provide 2 commerce per turn which you can also get from a coastal tile. The ivory can be mined for 2 spt which would be better than a coastal tile, but by settling on the BG, you lose shields early .

I'm terrible at fog-gazing, but it really looks like there is nothing but water to our S and SW. I think that if there is any more land available, then it must be north so I want to maximize my scout's movement in that direction. Settling S or NW would lose the whale - I don't think it is likely that there is going to be anything better than the whale that close by.

For the worker, I would road the tiles that citizens will be working first. On warlord level with a slow-growing capital happiness is not going to be an issue for a looooooong time.

 

[stvnjsph]

Maybe it is habit, settling next to a luxury resource. Worker SW to build a road + mine, Scout 2N. Settler to the NW. The whales can't be reached without settling on the BG so sliding the settler over to plains doesn't lose the furthest land area to the south within the city radius.

 

[civ_steve]

Let's see, Warlord, Pangaea and no pottery & galleys cost 40sh for predators...that just screams GILLIGAN'S ISLAND

...

Well, if I'd made F-15's cost 10 shields more, that wouldn't really matter now, would it?! kind of funny what pops up with Pangaea settings

Saves are up!

 

[Lanzelot]

What a coincidence: only two days after I asked for a game with a late UU, my wish was fulfilled...!
(See my last post in "Suggestions for new GOTMs":

.

)
Thanks a lot!

However, I'm afraid I won't be able to try this one... It was already difficult enough to squeeze in GOTM77 inbetween COTM46 & 47. Don't think I can do it a second time. (Unless ignas tells me a few tricks how to reach domination by 200AD...)

But I will certainly watch the spoilers closely! Perhaps someone will come up with a good idea about what to do with those F-15s...

Cheers, Lanzelot

 

[PaperBeetle]

Well if this does turn out to be an off-pangaea island, you could try a one city challenge. DaveMcW did a OCC 20k back in GOTM44 (Babylon, warlord, off-pang island) and finished it in about 45 minutes iirc.

 

[Lanzelot]

Well if this does turn out to be an off-pangaea island, you could try a one city challenge. DaveMcW did a OCC 20k back in GOTM44 (Babylon, warlord, off-pang island) and finished it in about 45 minutes iirc.

And now that you mention it: klarius did the same in our Korean Robinson Crusoe game in GOTM72... (He took 4h49, though.)

Thanks for the tip! I may actually try it. Should be a good practise game for me as I've never done a 20K game, nor an OCC.

Regards, Lanzelot

 

[Paul#42]

Great idea! I will also lack time - how about a predator-OC-Challenge this time for all those who won't be able to play this game otherwise?

Will be tough without a river though, staying below size 7 till construction and then dedicate our rare shields to this expensive nonsense-building...

But - it's a challenge!

 

[Lanzelot]

Hi Paulchen,
sounds like fun! Count me in! (This will then also be my first Predator game )

Just two questions:

1. Any victory condition, or just 20K?
2. True OCC, or "end-of-turn" OCC?

Cheers, Lanzelot

 

[Chamnix]

I think the biggest danger is that you might not be able to reach 20K before you suffer an embarrassing histographic defeat in 2050 - I think I'll pass on the challenge, but I look forward to reading about the games .

 

[Paul#42]

• Any victory condition, or just 20K?
• True OCC, or "end-of-turn" OCC?

We should try hard for 20k but if the AI does not stick to that VC, we take any other loss.

end-of-turn-OCC is certainly fine although I'll go for the pure one.

I played one OCC in the Babylon Gotm 60 netting me the shield with a 1842 finish...
It was on monarch, too, but the archipelage certainly handycapped the AI more than the pangea in this game...

@chamnix - I won't take too many notes...

 

[Lanzelot]

Will be tough without a river though, staying below size 7 till construction

The necessary aquaeduct is probably our smallest problem: if there is no fresh water on our island, then we can utilize only 4 land tiles plus the center square, which sums up to 8spt... (9spt, once we get the industrial bonus at size 7.)

I think, Chamnix may be right: this is probably one big Don Quixotery... A quick calculation shows: with the 540 turns we have, if everything goes perfectly we can finish 10 great wonders. (400 shields take 50 turns.) With a couple of rushed improvements like temple, libray and university we may peak at 60cpt. If we "triangulate" that over the 540 turns for simplicity, we reach ~ 30 x 540 = 16200. Even if some of the buildings get the 1000 year bonus for some time, it may still not be possible to reach 20K.

I see only two ways to win this thing:

1. Reach Offshore Platform asap (preferably before 1AD...)
2. Build nothing but veteran Archers/Longbows (we probably wont have iron on our island...), send them on a rampage and try to bring as many MGLs back home as possible...

How about modifying this to a 2CC? Then we can look for a nice spot on the Pangaea and make that our 20K city.

Cheers, Lanzelot

 

[Paul#42]

More important and way earlier than Offshore Platforms are rails, factories and coal plants.

I can't tell any more because I already played

Could we get some spoiler threads opened, please?