News: TSG142 Announcement!

[hitretz]

I ran a couple test games, 40 turns being enough to be the first to Ideologies with both. First I played full Tradition, then on the same map, full Liberty. The Liberty game felt significantly stronger (five turns faster to Radio, SP a few turns faster, and I got three Wonders versus zero). Both games I had four cities in the same places. BO was Watermills then workers (until I had eight of them), pausing for Stone Works, Forges and Stables (as they unlocked), then Caravans, then Universities. Tradition Cap started on a settler once I hit pop 5, but Settlers are extra hammers, so that took a bit of time (even with chops). With Liberty my BO was the same, except Aqueducts after Watermills and before workers. I have no real idea about the BO, but it seemed good enough. In both games I was at top of the leaderboard by T290 (you start at T250). I was significantly behind where I am most games by T290, but OTOH, it would be rare for me to be competitive with the AI after so few turns. Both games I picked up three units from five barb camps (very surprising to me for the RNG be so similar there).

Follows is my after-the-fact rationalizations for why Liberty comes out ahead with this Advanced Start (as compared to a Standard game):

Tradition
- Free Opera Houses instead of Monument seems nice, but all the buildings have reduced hammer cost, so fewer turns in net value.
- Free Aqueducts will be relatively late instead of super early. And again, the free hammers are of relatively low value.
- Unlocking the ability to faith purchase GP is useless in a game with no religion.

Liberty
+ Free settler on turn 0; so, it’s early and settlers are relatively expensive.
+ GP from finisher in a game with no religion makes it all the more valuable. I did LToP (for a GE) and then Sistine Chapel.

Raging Barbs is a good choice. You start with extra units, but all at 0 XP, so the additional opportunities to level up is very nice. Camps never being empty is no big deal since your are hunting with Muskets, and you only need one of them. It is poor luck when a brute spawns, but they upgrade to a Musket for less than 150 gold, so that is okay.

I also agree on Liberty tree, as long as the map allows for 4 good locations. My suggestion would be to open rationalism, and delay golden age until you get Taj. Liberty finisher allows to pick up the key wonders while Taj can be HBed. Also should give enough time to get the cities fat enough for the longer GA to start pumping artillery and taking over the map. Competitive times will rely on good road and army distribution and the Porcelain Tower helps transition into Panzers for the last 1-2 AIs

 

[zxcvbob]

I also agree on Liberty tree, as long as the map allows for 4 good locations. My suggestion would be to open rationalism, and delay golden age until you get Taj. Liberty finisher allows to pick up the key wonders while Taj can be HBed. Also should give enough time to get the cities fat enough for the longer GA to start pumping artillery and taking over the map. Competitive times will rely on good road and army distribution and the Porcelain Tower helps transition into Panzers for the last 1-2 AIs

Of all the wonders you can try to hard-build, why would you pick Taj Mahal? (I never build that one, maybe I'm missing out on something?) Because you're not likely to get beat by the AI? Or did you mean Chichen Itza?

 

[Absoleus]

A silly strategy I have in mind is to settle one city, go Liberty and pick up Collective Rule, then explore with 3 settlers and forward-settle 3 AIs. DoW them and have them suicide all the starting units into your cities, get a cannon or two in each expo and take 3 capitals very early.

Haha, love the idea !
But I would play it "safer" and settle 2 cities (so that you can benefit from early and cheap caravans) and forward-settle 2 AIs
Will make a few tests

 

[beetle]

Hey Beetle, which policy did you save for last on Liberty?

Meritocracy, but it would have been better to wait on Representation.

I like the idea of a free engineer to get LTOP, another one and save him for Porcelain Tower to get a free scientist for an academy. But I'm not sure how quickly you get to open Rationalism; it might be gone already.

I was able to hard build PT in one game, but not the other. Saving the GE for Eiffel Tower might be good too. But, once I Oxford Radio, I was far enough ahead to hard build every wonder from then on.

My suggestion would be to open rationalism, and delay golden age until you get Taj.

If you Open Rationalism, I think you will be able to hard build PT almost for sure. But delaying the Liberty finisher means the GE will be too late for LToP and the other Renaissance era wonders. So it is a bit of a Catch-22.

Competitive times will rely on good road and army distribution and the Porcelain Tower helps transition into Panzers for the last 1-2 AIs

My test game I did not have a coastal city so I went Freedom instead of Autocracy. Peaceful might have later win turn, but I think the game will play faster. There is good synergy between Freedom Trade Routes and Hanse, but stomping the map with Panzers would be fun too. My test game I was such a runaway, that DOM VC felt too easy.

EDIT: Well, I lost my test game. I think Diplo is actually pretty hard with this Advance Start as there is just not enough time to get six picks in an Ideology so that they the last one is one is timely.

 

[zxcvbob]

I played 100 turns last night with these settings. Liberty+Rationalism(3)+Autocracy(5) so far. Hard built LTOP and took a GS for an academy. Engineer for the Liberty finisher and was saving him for Porcelain Tower but Korea beat me to it so I used him for something else. (Sistine Chapel?) Korea also beat me to Eiffel Tower. In spite of the PT and the Korea's unique science buffs, I've overtaken them in science by building Hubbel and by signing a few research agreements. Korea also went Autocracy (they got there first) and I was afraid they'd beat me to Prora, but as far as I could tell Sejong didn't even try to build it.

I settled a 5th city really late to secure some oil. Even tho' it is in tundra, it is growing rapidly and is productive.

France was my neighbor (technically they still are) and the military powerhouse. I attacked them and captured Orleans and Paris then made peace. They are down to 1 city and no military, and are still at war with Brazil and Japan. I don't expect them to survive much longer. Maybe I can liberate Lyon someday for the extra world leader votes.

If I play this out, not sure what my 6th Autocracy policy will be, maybe Gunboat Diplomacy and send missile cruisers and XCOM's to all the CS's (yes, I have missile cruisers and XCOM's and stealth bombers, and I'm only middle-of-the-pack in military score)

I kind of like the Industrial era start; I didn't think I would.

 

[x2Madda]

A silly strategy I have in mind is to settle one city, go Liberty and pick up Collective Rule, then explore with 3 settlers and forward-settle 3 AIs. DoW them and have them suicide all the starting units into your cities, get a cannon or two in each expo and take 3 capitals very early.

Nothing silly about it, forward settling and removing 3 AI right out the gate is a solid strategy. If we are being honest, Domination win times are going to blow this out of the water in comparison to a 'peaceful' diplo victory.

Personally, I find being an era (or 3!) ahead of the AI makes war super easy. Its a tough call whether to forward settle and possibly miss out on being first to Modern era, or to sit back and steam roll with tanks and artillery but add 100+ turns in the process.

 

[KingDante]

Nothing silly about it, forward settling and removing 3 AI right out the gate is a solid strategy. If we are being honest, Domination win times are going to blow this out of the water in comparison to a 'peaceful' diplo victory.

Personally, I find being an era (or 3!) ahead of the AI makes war super easy. Its a tough call whether to forward settle and possibly miss out on being first to Modern era, or to sit back and steam roll with tanks and artillery but add 100+ turns in the process.

Tiebreaker goes to the more fun path. Which means panzers and artillery with the slower time. 🙂

 

[x2Madda]

Let me know when the after report forum topic goes up. I don't have nice things to say about this run.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Let me know when the after report forum topic goes up. I don't have nice things to say about this run.

They are up, they just havent been stickied yet. scroll to below the stickies and you should see them.