news: WOTM 14 Pre-Game Discussion

[DaviddesJ]

If we settle in place, and wait for our borders to expand to grab the stone (assuming someone else doesn't settle there first), then we still need a road around the bay to connect the quarry to our capital, right?

 

[LowtherCastle]

If we settle in place, and wait for our borders to expand to grab the stone (assuming someone else doesn't settle there first), then we still need a road around the bay to connect the quarry to our capital, right?

Yes, or a city across the bay, connected to the stone and with connected cultural borders (before sailing).

 

[Erkon]

...
Quickly find out if that W isthmus is a choke point. If so, settle toward the AIs until you run out of room, then settle behind the choke point. Try to meet all AIs before you get Alpha. Wait till you have axes to steal workers. If you don't have a worker before BW, poprush one.
...

Excellent strategy LC, simply brilliant! And while you're graciously sharing your wisdom, could you please just explain how you manage to poprush without BW?

What does people think of the forest? With stone and mathematics, I see the Pyramids. I also see a bunch of chariots. Now, what would be the most effective way to bring down all the AI?

godotnut, welcome back!

 

[ainwood]

BTW - I forgot: Balanced resources option is on.

 

[Jastrow]

Can someone explain "exactly" what the balance resource option does?

Thanks.

 

[PutCashIn]

According to the page that explains the map scripts, balanced res places strategic res's (from experience, horses, iron, copper, uranium, oil, coal, aluminium) within '4' (but in experience, up to 7) squares of your capital.

On a cramped enough map this leads to quotes such as "lol I stole tokey's iron and copper"

Oil tends (like 99% occurance) to be offshore for civ's with a costal capital.

 

[PutCashIn]

Although that may not apply here as that looks to be a fresh water lake....I dont know if oil can be located on fresh water??

I should also add that ALL those 7 strategic res's are placed around the capital, for everyone's capital, not just some.
(So everyone gets coal, for eg, thus 'balanced')

 

[da_Vinci]

According to the page that explains the map scripts, balanced res places strategic res's (from experience, horses, iron, copper, uranium, oil, coal, aluminium) within '4' (but in experience, up to 7) squares of your capital.

I thought that strategic resources by definition were those required to build some military unit ... ? So no experience required?

Maybe "within 4" means within 4 of the fat cross of the setter start tile? That might explain the up to 7 in your experience (or at least up to 6) ...

dV

 

[Erkon]

I tried the map provided by JungleIII (thanks ) and my first impression is that this will be a very crowded map! I build my settler in year 2440 BC (turn ~39) and by that time, almost every other AI had their third city . If we're unlucky, we'll get boxed in and have to settle on a sub-optimal site. The grassland tile 2W of the stone looks attractive, since the clam can be shared, and will produce 10 / turn at size 3

Has anyone tested going mining-BW? I tried fishing, hunting, A.H, writing (2440 BC) while building warrior, work boat, work boat, settler (at size 4). Is that path quicker to get the settler?

godotnut, did you read about the strategy to gift the city with UN to the civ that everyone dislikes? If only works if you are the largest though to ensure you're the second candidate...

 

[Vatec]

Excellent strategy LC, simply brilliant! And while you're graciously sharing your wisdom, could you please just explain how you manage to poprush without BW?

What does people think of the forest? With stone and mathematics, I see the Pyramids. I also see a bunch of chariots. Now, what would be the most effective way to bring down all the AI?

godotnut, welcome back!

I think what LC means is, if you haven't gotten a worker by the time you get BW, poprush one immediately after getting it....

As for me, I definitely see forests turning into Pyramids. Then again, I'm terrible at early rushes so YMMV.

 

[LowtherCastle]

@Vatec: Thanks. I have to stop using British English. No one seems to understand it...

Balanced resources. Hmmm... So we can plan any early rush we want and we can expect every AI to have chariots, axes, spears and swords... Sounds like another conspiracy against warmongers.

I ran two tests. Peaceful to Alpha and one worker-steal DoW to Alpha. IN the first case, AIs were willing to trade Maths, in the second not. Anyone know anything about this?

 

[Civicide]

Well I was able to take the Adevnturer practice game that was put together and monopolize religions to the point of a Pure World Peace game that eventually became a SR loss in the late 1800's. That's better than I can usually do on immortal. PA's were disabled in that game, but if they'd been enabled I might have been able to manage a Leech win. My strategy may involve a beeline to Fascism

 

[godotnut]

godotnut, did you read about the strategy to gift the city with UN to the civ that everyone dislikes? If only works if you are the largest though to ensure you're the second candidate...

No, I have been out of the loop. I hadn't heard of that. It's an interesting idea, assuming of course that they would WANT the city (not always the case obviously). It also assumes the ability to expand to such a populous empire while teching adequately, another iffy proposition on Immortal. But it's a nice thing to have as a potential option in one's bag of tricks.

I'm thinking of moving the settler one SE in the hope that the river will continue and provide some nice cottagable tiles. Unless there is an early economic resource nearby, quick cottages are going to be important. Poprushing from the seafood resources should provide all of the early production that I need.

The Arabian UB offers some nice opportunities for early cultural land grabs with a relatively small number of starting cities. That should be helpful on the crowded map.

godotnut, welcome back!

Thanks Erkon. Good to see some familiar faces still around!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

@Godotnut: I was wondering about putting moving the settler SE too, for the same reason. I'm wary though because on immortal I'm nervous about losing a turn unless there's a very obvious advantage (and it does lose a forest). I guess more cottageable grassland is much more useful to you if you're going cultural than it would be for me - probably going spacerace, since it doesn't really matter so much to me if they get spread between two cities. LC's idea of settling on the sugar is interesting but does lose one of the seafoods. I think for me it's going to be a toss-up between in-place and SE.

@Erkon: I'd love to build the pyramids but I don't think I'm going to in that city. Those forests will give you just under half the pyramids, two thirds if you wait till mathematics (which on immortal is probably a big risk), but in that city by the time you've built the rest of the hammers someone else will be launching their spaceship .

I'll see how the map turns out. Much as I'd like the pyramids, right now I can't see that stone getting hooked up until far too late. It's in too awkward a place.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Although that may not apply here as that looks to be a fresh water lake....I dont know if oil can be located on fresh water??

That's coast, not lake (apart from the two tiles up north). Only one food per file = sea.

Which brings up another interesting idea. Are we at a continent-wide choke point? If so, can we stop half the AIs meeting the other AIs?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I'm confused. I tried generating a map with balanced resources to see what it was like, but found that 'balanced' is a map-type, not an option on the pangea map-type ???

(And unfortunately Warlords throws an unhandled Win32 exception whenever I try to look at the map in worldbuilder so I couldn't see what they were like anyway )

 

[LowtherCastle]

@Godotnut: I was wondering about putting moving the settler SE too, for the same reason. I'm wary though because on immortal I'm nervous about losing a turn unless there's a very obvious advantage (and it does lose a forest). I guess more cottageable grassland is much more useful to you if you're going cultural than it would be for me - probably going spacerace, since it doesn't really matter so much to me if they get spread between two cities. LC's idea of settling on the sugar is interesting but does lose one of the seafoods. I think for me it's going to be a toss-up between in-place and SE.

Settler SE burns a forest but gives you at least one Grass/river tile to cottage before you have BW. That's an early advantage for Cultural, Space Race, and the Alpha bee-line.

If you settle on the sugar and build settler straight away, he's built on Turn 21. If you settle him on the other sugar or a plains/hill, you could have two more settlers ~20 turns laters. That 4 cities before 2000 bc. Use one for the stone and clams... (Disclaimer: I'm not recommending this choice...)

Which brings up another interesting idea. Are we at a continent-wide choke point? If so, can we stop half the AIs meeting the other AIs?

AIs not meeting each other can mess up your trading possibilities if you beeline Alpha and AIs wont' trade because they think they have a "monopoly" on a tech because they don't know another AI who actually has it.

I'm confused. I tried generating a map with balanced resources to see what it was like, but found that 'balanced' is a map-type, not an option on the pangea map-type ???

(And unfortunately Warlords throws an unhandled Win32 exception whenever I try to look at the map in worldbuilder so I couldn't see what they were like anyway )

Here are Sirian's examples of Balanced Maps. Note that in the example some resources are 5 tiles from the city center (4 plots from the inner cross).

 

[PutCashIn]

Balanced is both a MapScript in its own right and an option (at the bottom of the list of options) for Pangea etc maps.

 

[Lexad]

Chances are high for the hill to contain some metal with balanced resources. Also East tiles seem to be jungled - also unlikely for metals/horses. I'd settle in place, I think.

Also, balanced resources kinda deflate the camel archer's unique strenghts. "Balanced no resources" would've been more appropriate

 

[LowtherCastle]

For warmongers, yes. This is a builder, peacemonger-friendly layout, I bet.