Next turn - 1180AD

[funxus]

1100 AD: Deliver RF cloth: 72g/b.
Deliver PB Dye: 56g/b, route 6t/turn.
Deliver LC Salt: 74g/b, replace PB route with 6t/turn.

Found Electrical. (HM)
I'm thinking about what to do with C2. The peninsula will only give one special, which won't be visible until boat passes by. The plains NW of the forest has one buffalo, but not a second special. This makes the GLS SW of the hut the best choice in my eyes, for two reasons: We'll cover the island more effectively, and we'll be able to pop the hut without fearing barbs. It also has a special(probably fishtype) that can easily be made visible by planting a forest. I hope I'm making the right decision, although we never discussed the location...

1120 AD: Indians request audience: They want to join an alliance against the Zulus, we decline.
BBF builds dip. (starts settler, could be changed to dip later on)
Dou builds Shake's, (SE, Indians and French abandon)
Neu builds beads caravan. (another)

EF salt delivered to Dou: 78g/b, route of 4t/turn.
LP hides: 80g/b, route of 5t/turn (replacing EF)

Trollhättan founded (C3). (warrior)

1140 AD: Greeks develop Pottery.
We get invention. (Demo next...)
FW and EF build dye caravans.(Another one)

About caravans and science:
1/3 is complete (~325b/~950b) and we get 327b/turn. This means we better wait with caravans until after Demo is discovered, otherwise we'll develop demo too early and lose the beakers in Dou to anarchy. All caravans are put on hold until 1180.

Found Nemoville. (warrior)
Pop hut: Crusader. (Nemo support)

LC prod set to 10 (no aqueduct anyway).

1160 AD: Aztecs moves in with a dip and steals economics (HM has one more turn to finish) Indians get it too. We don't want to declare war at this point I assume, so I look through my fingers and just hope it won't happen again.
VM builds silver (other option is coal) caravan. (another one)
Nae builds beads van. (another one)
LC builds silver caravan. (another one)

Igl settler founds Superstorms. (warrior)

Sci rate and scientists set so that we produce barely more beakers than are needed for demo.

1180 AD: French develop WC. Loaded Aztec ship rests on Superstorm fish.
Ipec builds dye caravan. (another)
Neu builds spice van. (another)
CFC discover Democracy (Feu, begin revolution)
Since one of the last cities discovered demo (due to lowered sci rates), we get no shortages or unhappiness this turn.
I pick demo from the list...

"President proclaimed president of new CFC democracy"

Now it's time for deliveries...

Deliver EF Coal: 117g/b, route 6t/turn. (Silver no longer demanded ) (3rd)
Deliver Nae Dye: 58g/b, 8t/turn. (1st)
Deliver VM Gold: 63g/B, 5t/turn. (2nd)
Deliver Neu Beads: 42g/b, 6t/turn. (2nd)
Deliver Neu Dye: 42g/B, 6t/turn. (3rd)
Deliver LC Silver: 46g/b, 7t/turn. (3rd)
Deliver Igl Beads: 51g/b, 5t/turn. (2nd)
Deliver BS Beads: 24g/B, 4t/turn. (1st)
Deliver Igl Spice: 51g/b, 5t/turn. (3rd)
Deliver FW Salt: 48g/b, 4t/turn. (2nd)

T: 786g
SP: 1/2 of Feu.

Talk to Greeks (Feu and Chivalry):
They ask us to declare war on the Zulus (which we can't because we need to keep our rep spotless), then they ask us for 750g, which peace with them definitely isn't worth. Meaning we're at war with the Greeks
Now that we're at war with the greeks I assume stealing Chivalry wouldn't hurt? LP trireme sets out with dip, heading towards Thessalonica.

 

[funxus]

Things to consider:
What to do with the money (+Tlaxcala delivery next turn)?

What about science? Shall we try to steal chivalry? Trade feudalism with Indians? If we raise sci rate 10 percentunits we can get feu next turn.

We're at war, this will give CG something to do I know has been asking for it too. However, this is probably not the best time - we have a few wonders to build and probably would like to celebrate soon (at least after Bach)? We'll need to reinforce quite a bit in eastern Coresux.

Most cities seem to take our ships being away all right, although some of them needed the trade route from this turn to avoid elvis and working the sea. E.g. BS.

The roading north of SS (Superstorms) might seem strange, but the reason is that we'll be able to move out the warrior every turn to see if there's a dip two squares away and then move back the same turn. The other directions are quite protected...

I hope people are fine with Nemoville's location (C2).

Some cities are ready to celebrate had they had the needed sanitary improvements. Shall they have them? Three of them are our main caravan producers (prod of 10s) and it'll be a great loss if we don't get those caravans...

 

[TheViking]

The MoDA's first impressions:

The obvious thing is that we should talk to the Indians now to get feudalism. For planning purposes it would be nice to know now whether we will be able to research theology next.

After discovering theology I'd like to set taxes to maximum for several turns, we need to finish Bach, Leo and AS and build several marketplaces, harbors, temples, sewers, banks and possibly settlers and needless to say, caravans. Several turns from now we'll probably celebrate. The caravans that ar ebeing built would be IPRB'd before starting improvements.

We also need a much stronger military along Coresux' northeast coast, especially in the east, and also in Woodstock.

Once we have finished building some infrastructure and celebrating I'd prefer to launch a decapitiation strike on the Greeks, taking Athens and a few other cities in one or tow turns (this would require a one or possibly two turn revolution to prevent the senate from interfering). The MoDA is willing to devote considerable resources to this (building a few barracks and roughly 10 crusaders).

I'd really like to see what the military and foreign advisors want.

BBF should switch to an improvement, it needs these to grow (rush buying the settler is a bad idea, BBF must be kept at size 3+, rush buying a dip or crusader instead is an idea).

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Thoughts from the Science Ministry...

Well done again. Nice work getting Democracy with little or no anarchy. I underestimated the growth in beakers and a missed the fact that LC gets a road bonus for it’s deliveries. That combined with the cushion I had in beakers for democracy (the difference between this and the Risky plan) meant you could hold back on those Vans. Excellent!!!

Given our current state of war, I presume many of the science ministry’s priorities will take a back seat to some other areas. While the Science Ministry does not think this is a good time to redirect our efforts toward anything more than a defensive war, we will do as much as possible to focus on options that will aid our military efforts, whatever they may be.

I agree we should get feudalism this turn (if possible, have we talked to the indians this turn?) so we can apply the current beakers to the next tech. Our next choices should be Chivalry, Gunpowder, and Theology

Since we are at war, it probably makes sense for our next tech to be Gunpowder. It looks like if we go to 60% science we should have enough beakers to complete the tech this turn even with the extra cost from getting another tech, so we have the option of completing Gunpowder as we go into the next turn.

The question then becomes, what to research after Gunpowder?

It looks like our choices will be Navigation, Chivalry, and Metallurgy.

The next turn, we deliver the caravan to Tlaxcala, and an Ipecac caravan will be available to be delivered to Doughnutia. These should produce about 500 beakers. I’m sure there will be strong sentiment to cut science down at this point to fund the other priorities. We could cut them down to around 20%, but hire 3 or so einsteins in Doughnutia to take advantage of the SSC wonders. This should still be enough to complete the next tech after gunpowder in 2 turns with the caravan deliveries. If we choose Chivalry as our next tech, we could steal it in two turns (before completing it) then let those shields go toward Leadership.

This would give us the ability to build dragoons 3 turns from now.

I don’t know if this is the way we want to go, but it’s an option the Defense ministry should consider.

The advantages are fairly obvious, it would give us the ability to build dragoons 3 turns from now. However, this approach is not without its drawbacks: (1) It doesn’t give us time to build a bunch of cheap warriors and horsemen, then build Leo’s and have them upgraded to more expensive units. I don’t know if the Defense ministry was counting on this technique.
(2) We don’t get Theology for a while, which should be a fairly high priority to get Bach so we can more easily prepare for war and move troops without unhappiness problems.

The Greeks have had Feudalism for some time, and they have SunTzu’s War Academy. I would assume most of their cities are guarded by veteran Pikemen. I would not recommend launching a major offensive against the Greeks with crusaders, unless you are willing to accept fairly heavy casualties.

Maybe someone should go over to the Civ3 demo game forum and ask our Military Advisor if he can spare a few minutes to join the fun over here.

One other thing - It appears the gold demand has dried up in India. The only cities now demanding gold are domestic. However, we should keep the boat going because a non-demand delivery to Delhi (probably ~300g) will be far more than an internal delivery, even with the gold demand bonus.

 

[funxus]

If we want to move troops over to Greece, I think Back and theology should be high priorities, because we don't really want to rehome any units in dou or get our home cities unhappy.

We have three wonders we want to build: Bach, AS and Leo's. We haven't begun any of these. The Aztecs and indians have economics, and they might both start AS soon. Are we ready to give away invention if we can trade it for something we want?

 

[TheViking]

We have become a superpower

I notice that we can now lower luxuries to 20% by rearranging workers in a city or two and hiring an Elvis in LP. LP's problems will go away once it builds a marketplace which can be finished 3 turns from now so I think we should do this. This will allow us to get a lot of money from taxes and still keep some science going.

I'd suggest 50-60% science for one more turn if that enables us to quicky get theology (this assumes successful talks with the Indians).

Then a rate like tax=50% (334/51), sci=30% (4 turns), lux=20% seems nice or maybe tax=60%. This might be preceded by one or two turns of 80% taxes (I still haven't worked out the cost of the things I want to do immediately, also we might like to partially buy some wonders instead of building them using caravans only). I don't think we are ready to celebrate until several turns now.

Regarding the Greeks, if I'm strong then as a matter of principle NOBODY declares a war on me without serious consequences. Period. Also the fact that the Aztecs stole a tech from us is not forgotten (however, the decision to not declare war on them was correct - we are too weak in Woodstock at the moment). However, with gunpowder to be discovered several turns from now action should be delayed a bit since we'll need to build some barracks. Also we need better ships. Athens may be a bit too hard to conquer but as a minimum we should conquer the entire western half of Greece (Thessalonica, Rhodes etc.). Doing so should be easy.

 

[funxus]

I'll probably play next on Sunday, but I don't think I'll visit here until then. I'm going to a concert tomorrow, Springsteen.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Please note that in the Science and War thread, there was NOT a call to change our research direction towards advanced military technolgy. Therefore you should disregard the comments above about stealing Chivalry and researching Leadership. These moves would be counter to the established direction as voted on in recent polls. Instead, please stay the course on our established priorities (Theology, Magnetism, Explosives) as outlined in the Science and War thread.

Also, the MoDA's plans involves a reduction in science, so tech goals can not be achieved as aggressively as described above. I will not try to detail out a plan for acquiring techs. Just use your good judgement on the tweaking of the tax rates and the timing of caravan deliveries to best take advantage of both the gold and the beakers.

 

[funxus]

Okay, I'll start playing soon. I'll have to catch up with all these new threads...

Springsteen was great, although I'm not a very big fan. A small disappointment was that he didn't play many of the famous songs.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

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