NFL Off Season 2017

[Timsup2nothin]

Best quote of the day on the 49ers: They aren't a team that's a quarterback away from greatness, they are just a team that is a quarterback away from being a bad team with a quarterback.

Meanwhile, Adrian Peterson signs with New Orleans. The Saints officially claim the number one spot on the "now or never" list. Peterson and Brees are definitely capable of making them a right now favorite...but both could be staring at their last season. No matter how you slice it they become the old guy fan favorite, and I am on board. GO SAINTS!!!

 

[Serutan]

If they can shore up the defense some more - since they don't need to recreate the '85 Bears - they might just do it.
I am skeptical of how much AP will really contribute as he did not look all that good even before his injury last year.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If they can shore up the defense some more - since they don't need to recreate the '85 Bears - they might just do it.
I am skeptical of how much AP will really contribute as he did not look all that good even before his injury last year.

With Brees at QB Peterson is going to see the first seven man fronts of his career. Sharing the load with Ingram will mean the Saints will have fresh legs under hammering style ball carriers throughout games. Their offense will now be able to bear a fair share of the responsibility for protecting a lead. I am optimistic.

 

[caketastydelish]

Their defense doesn't have to be great, but it has to be not terrible. The problem is their current defense is terrible. The Superbowl is heavily skewed of top defense beating top offense. Whether they have a top defense is out of the question. They need a mediocre defense to even have a chance.

The Seahawks have Rusell Wilson + Eddie Lacy + Jimmy Graham + Doug Baldwin + stacked defense, and even they are not 'super bowl favorites'. You are wildly overestimating the Saints chances here based on just picking up one guy. And a guy who is probably past his prime, at that.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Their defense doesn't have to be great, but it has to be not terrible. The problem is their current defense is terrible. The Superbowl is heavily skewed of top defense beating top offense. Whether they have a top defense is out of the question. They need a mediocre defense to even have a chance.

The Seahawks have Rusell Wilson + Eddie Lacy + Jimmy Graham + Doug Baldwin + stacked defense, and even they are not 'super bowl favorites'. You are wildly overestimating the Saints chances here based on just picking up one guy. And a guy who is probably past his prime, at that.

Wilson: adequate, but not really great.
Lacy: a multiple retread, serviceable but nothing special.
Baldwin: undrafted guy who has played far above his potential, but isn't anything special.
Graham: a great receiving tight end stuck in a system that specifically calls for skills he lacks while ignoring the skills he has.
"Stacked" defense: A simplified system suitable for college made to work by having extraordinary players at every position, making it susceptible to folding over pretty much any one player being injured.

The Seahawks are certainly not "super bowl favorites," with multiple good reasons. I'm not calling the Saints super bowl favorites either, but I think they are a team that is ideally positioned to take maximum advantage of signing a horse like Peterson.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Best quote of the day on the 49ers: They aren't a team that's a quarterback away from greatness, they are just a team that is a quarterback away from being a bad team with a quarterback.

Let the church say amen

I think they could convince Atlanta to cough up a truckload of picks to trade up to the #2 spot. They have two many needs to not take advantage of this opportunity to trade down for more picks.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Why would Atlanta make such a deal? Is there some player available at number two that somehow fills a "one player away" type need for them? By and large I don't see any such hole in the Falcons. They seem to me to need a broad draft for depth more than they need a second pick.

 

[caketastydelish]

Wilson: adequate, but not really great.

Wilson is easily top 10, if not top 5. Look at his stats. They're great, and in a team with a horrible O-line, at that.

Lacy: a multiple retread, serviceable but nothing special.

He is by far better than Rawls or anyone else they had before ever since Lynch left. The Seahawks are a run heavy team and they were missing a critical element they just got back. Lynch himself wasn't particularly great until he joined Seattle. Seattle is set up to where any decent running back can succeed.

Baldwin: undrafted guy who has played far above his potential, but isn't anything special.

See, here's your problem. Similar to how anyone not as good as Aaron Rodgers or whatever 'isn't anything special' you seem to be thinking Doug Baldwin doesn't matter because he's not Antonio Brown. He's better than the vast majority of wide receivers in the NFL. Stats don't lie. And like I said, he's managed to accomplish this in spite of being on a team with a horrible offensive line.

Graham: a great receiving tight end stuck in a system that specifically calls for skills he lacks while ignoring the skills he has.

This is the closest thing you've said to correct. Even then, he's a solid piece. He's not Gronk, but he doesn't have to be Gronk to be great.

"Stacked" defense: A simplified system suitable for college made to work by having extraordinary players at every position, making it susceptible to folding over pretty much any one player being injured.

No. Plenty of the LOB has already left from the original LOB, and they continue to kick ass year after year.

The Seahawks are certainly not "super bowl favorites," with multiple good reasons. I'm not calling the Saints super bowl favorites either, but I think they are a team that is ideally positioned to take maximum advantage of signing a horse like Peterson.

The dude is 32. Frank Gore was also great at one point, you know? Even Marshawn Lynch (younger than this guy) called it quits well before. I won't even say he's going to be a crappy back, but 'OMG they're so much better now with Peterson and this changes everything' is an overreaction. Seattle also had every opportunity to sign Peterson. They choose Lacy. Can you blame them?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The dude is 32. Frank Gore was also great at one point, you know? Even Marshawn Lynch (younger than this guy) called it quits well before. I won't even say he's going to be a crappy back, but 'OMG they're so much better now with Peterson and this changes everything' is an overreaction.

The point, actually, was that they don't need to be all that much better.

BTW...saying Wilson is a top ten QB says a lot more about the 22 who are NOT top ten than it does about Wilson.

 

[caketastydelish]

The point, actually, was that they don't need to be all that much better.

Based on what? They were horrible last season. They didn't even make the playoffs.

BTW...saying Wilson is a top ten QB says a lot more about the 22 who are NOT top ten than it does about Wilson.

Not in my opinion. The top 10 or top 5 don't make more than everyone else combined. Everything is relative, from the worst QB to the best.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Based on what? They were horrible last season. They didn't even make the playoffs.

If 7-9 is "horrible" I can't imagine what sort of word you use for teams like the 49ers, Browns, Rams, Bears, etc. If a team that falls out of playoff contention long about week 14 is "horrible" what do you call a team that is eliminated for all practical purposes by week nine?

 

[caketastydelish]

Maybe horrible is an exaggeration. But 'they'll go from 7-9 to the Super Bowl because Peterson' seems silly IMO.

Peterson, in conjunction with having a great draft in getting defensive pieces... maybe.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Maybe horrible is an exaggeration. But 'they'll go from 7-9 to the Super Bowl because Peterson' seems silly IMO.

Cool. When you find someone who said that we can call it silly together.

Adding a HOF running back never hurt anyone. It also, in itself, never took anyone to the super bowl.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Why would Atlanta make such a deal? Is there some player available at number two that somehow fills a "one player away" type need for them?

Yes! They need to add a marquis pass rusher. That is literally the one guy that would have delivered them a Superbowl win this year. But the only guy left after Garrett is gone long before they pick. They also need a top O-Guard which will be gone for sure if they don't get ahead of the Eagles and Colts. So I say trading with SF for that #2 will give them a complete team. No team is perfect, but they are a perfect example of "one guy away" they literally just lost the SB, by a hair. It doesn't get more "one guy needed" than that.

Adding a HOF running back never hurt anyone. It also, in itself, never took anyone to the super bowl.

Well... the 85 Bears don't win the SB without Sweetness, that's for sure.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yes! They need to add a marquis pass rusher. That is literally the one guy that would have delivered them a Superbowl win this year. But the only guy left after Garrett is gone long before they pick. They also need a top O-Guard which will be gone for sure if they don't get ahead of the Eagles and Colts. So I say trading with SF for that #2 will give them a complete team. No team is perfect, but they are a perfect example of "one guy away" they literally just lost the SB, by a hair. It doesn't get more "one guy needed" than that.

Well... the 85 Bears don't win the SB without Sweetness, that's for sure.

Ummm...as I recall that game was over by the end of the first half. Sweetness certainly contributed and was certainly a HOF back...but looking at that epic drubbing one has to wonder if any single player was really vital to the cause.

Meanwhile...back at the Falcons. Another pass rusher would certainly help, but I think they would be sufficiently improved just by putting another strong guy in the rotation so everyone stays fresher and a number two pick in the draft type guy, who would carry a bust risk as a rookie playing a very long season, is not the best solution. And there is NO offensive lineman in this draft that merits a number two pick. I haven't heard anyone project an O-line pick in the top ten, much less at two.

 

[caketastydelish]

Meanwhile...back at the Falcons. Another pass rusher would certainly help, but I think they would be sufficiently improved just by putting another strong guy in the rotation so everyone stays fresher and a number two pick in the draft type guy, who would carry a bust risk as a rookie playing a very long season, is not the best solution. And there is NO offensive lineman in this draft that merits a number two pick. I haven't heard anyone project an O-line pick in the top ten, much less at two.

I'm going to say the Falcons already have everything they need, as it stands. I'm going to quote light cleric here. I don't always agree with him but he basically got this right:

"Not adjusting their defense, not managing the clock properly(e.g. snapping with +10 seconds left on the play clock), going pass-happy with a 25 point lead when your RBs were gashing the defense, having the ball on the Pats' 25 for a chip-shot field goal and turning that into 4th & 33 because Matt Ryan went full potato and took a sack followed by a holding penalty....it was embarrassing and also effing delicious to watch as a Saints fan. Despite the stupid-ass "Matty Ice" nickname the Falcons had a well-earned reputation for choking(see: 2012 NFCCG) and they somehow one-upped themselves."

They won the game as far as I'm concerned, and they were better than the Patriots as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to blame the coaches and not the players. In fairness, their Head coach is new at his job. I certainly wouldn't fire him for 'only' bringing his team to the Super Bowl (too many other teams fired coaches for stupid reasons like that). Hopefully, they all learned from this experience, and won't do it again. The Falcons are a relatively young team, and the future looks bright.

The Falcons are a solid team all around. I'm not going to pretend I, as an amateur, know what they should draft more than the professionals. Especially that kind of a team. They can do whatever.

 

[BirraImperial]

AP is a great addition to the Saints, but his track record of injuries is just not good...Too bad because he's my favorite RB...

 

[Serutan]

With Brees at QB Peterson is going to see the first seven man fronts of his career. Sharing the load with Ingram will mean the Saints will have fresh legs under hammering style ball carriers throughout games. Their offense will now be able to bear a fair share of the responsibility for protecting a lead. I am optimistic.

I see that point, but I am still not wholly convinced. What does make sense to me is that they signed him as a short term option
in order to free up a draft pick for defense. And they only need to get to mediocre on D with that offense.

 

[Serutan]

Why would Atlanta make such a deal? Is there some player available at number two that somehow fills a "one player away" type need for them? By and large I don't see any such hole in the Falcons. .

Agreed. While I think one can argue they still have holes -albeit not gaping - on defense, this is a deep draft for defense so they should be
able to address their issues with their current set of picks.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Ummm...as I recall that game was over by the end of the first half. Sweetness certainly contributed and was certainly a HOF back...but looking at that epic drubbing one has to wonder if any single player was really vital to the cause.

Meanwhile...back at the Falcons. Another pass rusher would certainly help, but I think they would be sufficiently improved just by putting another strong guy in the rotation so everyone stays fresher and a number two pick in the draft type guy, who would carry a bust risk as a rookie playing a very long season, is not the best solution. And there is NO offensive lineman in this draft that merits a number two pick. I haven't heard anyone project an O-line pick in the top ten, much less at two.

About the Bears. That's a legit point. I should have said, "they don't make the SB without Walter" rather than "win", but I didn't...

Anyway, the Falcons... yeah its mostly wishful thinking on my part, but I do think that if the 49ers had the #1 pick (Myles) or if the Browns were after some other equally worthy pick instead of Myles, that it might be worth it for the Falcons to trade the farm to get him. As it stands there is an alternate impressive rusher, but sadly, he's not up to the same caliber as Myles.