Discussion in 'Sports Talk' started by ForbiddenPalace, Sep 19, 2005.
We'll just see about that....! THe sens don't usually choke until playoff time!
How about my Columbus Blue Jackets breaking their loosing streak by upsetting the undefeated Nashville Predators (3-2 in overtime!) I live between Columbus and Pittsburgh, so it's nice to see one of them win.
Bruins beat Toronto
Go Hannu Toivonen!
Montréal is losing 3-0 against NYR in 1st...
Dany Heatley got 4 goals. Ottawa beats Toronto 8-0.
ouch. that's all I can say... ouch.
Stupid CBC. I wish they would just tell you what the three stars of the game were, instead of picking their own which are different from those picked by whoever actually gets to pick the three stars.
The Vancouver Canucks at the Colorado Avalanche, in pictures.
The Canucks Defense =
Pierre Turgeon's Role on the Avs this season =
(a cherry picker)
Ian Laperriere =
Canucks Special Teams =
Rob Blake =
Indeed, ouch. Oh well, at least Alfredsson netted me some nice points for the hockey pool.
I was at the Flyers-Sens game last night. The Sens always lose when I go see them. I should be banned from the Corel Centre.
I must demand you stop going to see the Senators play, especially during the playoffs
@ Pasi- Nice post on the Canucks/Avalanche .
You're more than welcome at the Air Canada Centre. Could have used you saturday night.
Maybe it works the other way in Toronto, and causes the Leafs to lose
Funny, I've never seen the Canucks lose, home or away, and in over 25 games over the past three seasons, I've only seen the Giants lose twice.
The Canucks special teams and goaltending will be their undoing. Until Cloutier wins the cup I won't believe he can. That isn't to say he won't. He is a decent to very good goalie in the regular season but will always be suspect in the postseason until he wins it all, it is a matter of history. He is mentally fragile in the playoffs (and how many years has he been playing in the NHL now?) Actually the whole Canucks team is to a greater or lesser degree, it doesn't matter how they do in the regular season. It is part of what makes them compelling hockey to watch. It will be interesting to see if they can get over that hump.
Dan Cloutier has played a full role in only three playoff series over two years. In 2001, he played two of four games as the Canucks were swept by the Wild. In 2004, he played in less than 90 minutes of hockey before being injured. When you actually stop to take stock of his past, he really hasn't had that much opportunity to prove himself. People who criticize Cloutier for his performances in the playoffs tend to act as if he's had a decade in the Vancouver nets. People often point to Kirk McLean as the definition of a playoff performer, but Captain Kirk was in Vancouver for eight seasons before the 1994 Finals, which seems like an eternity compared to the three full seasons Dan Cloutier has played as a starter. Only three full seasons, and people already label him as a permanent underachiever. Incredible.
Not to mention that, at least according to the Canucks training, conditioning, and goaltending staff (basically the people who know Dan as a player best), he was well on his way to having the playoffs of a lifetime in 2004 until he was hit by a freak injury.
Aside from the occasional hiccups, and injuries, there's nothing wrong with the Canucks special teams. The penalty kill is hurting right now because Bryan Allen is out due to injury, which adds at least five or six shots against per game, shots he would have normally blocked. Laperriere was allowed to score on the breakaway because McCarthy senselessly threw himself into the play along the boards, leaving the entire defensive zone open for one nicely placed spring-pass. McCarthy can't handle these minutes; he's a fine 6th defenceman, but he's no Bryan Allen. The situation will stabilize once the injuries are sorted out.
Well yeah, that is totally true. He could have disproved people in 2003- 04 if he was healthy and the Canucks loss to the Flames was obviously not his fault. However, let us review Cloutier's recent playoff runs:
04 - injured, not his fault
03 - meltdown against Minnesota
02 - meltdown against Detroit
If he gets a Stanley Cup playing in Vancouver it is not based on what he has done there yet. Like I said, I am not saying it will never happen, I am just saying that based on what he has done so far you can't expect it.
Edit: It is part of what makes the Canucks compelling to watch, Cloutier will never be considered a top tier goalie until he wins the cup, due to his history there will always be doubts until he actually does it.
2003 was three years ago, 2002 was four years ago. He was a completely different goaltender back then. When he was acquired in late 2001, and put through training camp, the Vancouver Canucks staff put him through a three year program. The first year (2001-2002) was designed to work Cloutier's then-fiery temperament out of his game. The second year (2002-2003) was designed to improve his positioning, to help him to stop fighting the puck and just let it hit him, and the third year (2003-2004) was designed to slowly coax his temperament back into his game. It was paying off, then he was injured. He's a fuller goaltender now, and is not the kid he was.
Possibly true but until he has actually done it he hasen't proved anything. Maybe you are right. We will find out. Until it happens I will remain skeptical of Dan Cloutier as a Stanley Cup goalie. As I see it his problems aren't skills, they are head issues.
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