Nick's Civic Changes/Anarchy Discussion

[NickGabben]

How do you look at anarchy? I have a phobia about changing civics outside of golden ages (except spiritual games, of course). I do adopt slavery and representation (from the pyramids) more or less immediately when possible and sometimes bureaucracy and hereditary rule, but otherwise I just stick to my civics even though a change might have a quick ROI. Do you calculate stuff, wing it or play as I do?

 

[Samson]

How do you look at anarchy? I have a phobia about changing civics outside of golden ages (except spiritual games, of course). I do adopt slavery and representation (from the pyramids) more or less immediately when possible and sometimes bureaucracy and hereditary rule, but otherwise I just stick to my civics even though a change might have a quick ROI. Do you calculate stuff, wing it or play as I do?

I do not calculate stuff, but I do tend to try and guess the ROI of the revolution. So if the anarchy would be 2 turns and I guess the improvement to be about a 10% increase in empire productivity then that is an ROI of 20 turns. I tend to do most of my civic changes during golden ages, and suspect I do not change as frequently as I should.

 

[sampsa]

I do very similar (to NickGabben). HR and bureau tend to pay back so well you should do it immediately, but of course sometimes you can plan to make a double switch. People who like to build buildings like to be in org rel so I think they make a double switch (probably HR+orgrel). I sometimes made some calculations and the price of anarchy is just huge.

 

[lymond]

Moderator Action: Topic seemed worthy of its own thread. Cheers - lymond

 

[lymond]

Yeah, I don't like anarchy and try to avoid it if possible. Timings matter, but I tend to take a golden age and first civic switch when Bureau/Pacifism is ready, usually a good time for that great folk push. If I do build Mids early I will immediately switch to it though. I'll do the same thing later for later civics like State property, i.e., run a second golden age. I'll try to avoid anarchy altogether for an entire game, but sometimes it is worth it.

 

[NickGabben]

The good thing with Communism is that you get the spy with it (assuming you're the first one there), so you only need to have one more GP stored most of the time, or with some careful planning and luck, time Taj Mahal to go with the switch, but if you can pull that off, you're usually far ahead and the win is probably just a formality anyway - with or without state property.

 

[NickGabben]

Do you give in to demands that would force you into anarchy? I hate those... I don't like giving up techs, resources or my map, but those are at least relatively painless in comparison.

 

[lymond]

Do you give in to demands that would force you into anarchy? I hate those... I don't like giving up techs, resources or my map, but those are at least relatively painless in comparison.

It very much depends, but on high levels against psychos it can mean survival and really help ya on your way to better diplo with them. If I'm preparing to attack them anyway though they can shove it

 

[sampsa]

In general, don't give into demands. I pretty much do it only if forced (i.e. cannot handle that AI go WHEOOHRN).

 

[SittinDown]

we all know Always War. How about an Always Anarchy challenge.

Rules:
1) Must tech to a civic-giving tech first.
2) If you can go into anarchy on a turn by switching civics, you MUST do so.
3) Cannot play as spiritual leader.

 

[6K Man]

There's a formula somewhere (based on game speed, # of cities?) that determines how long your anarchy is per civic being changed.

The only civic I adopt without even considering a GA is Slavery. Buro, I'll sometimes time with the Music artist... and roll in OR (if there's a religion) and Rep (if have Pyramids). Which almost certainly means delaying a switch, but at that point, 1 turn of anarchy becomes 2 or 3 when you change multiple civics.

I can seldom manage to swap to State Property with Taj Mahal's GA. Best I can do is usually Liberalism, Economics, maybe 10 turns of Pacifism/Caste and then back to OR. I usually have to burn 2 or 3 GP to make the State Prop/Emancipation swap.

 

[elmurcis]

Not sure about game speed (as I'm permanent Mara-noob for life) but map size does matter - Large can have 14 cities for "cheap" anarchy while Huge 16 cities (17th trigger extra turn, 33rd another extra etc.). Not rarely I find myself delaying settling city or two to get anarchy going before getting extra cities. If I'm still <14/16, I might do some "out of box" swap here and there for some diplo reasons (to get AIs to pleased or such).

 

[Plains-Cow]

I try to swap into more than one civic at a time unless I'm really eager to get into something.

 

[NickGabben]

For sure game speed plays a role. I also usually play marathon* and the first switch to slavery takes two turns (if you don't delay it for whatever reason) and that's still less than a turn on normal. That's how I try to think about it.

*) When I don't, I feel like I'm racing through the tech tree only to discover that the AIs also seem to be quicker - how unfair!! And it's also 1000 AD all of a sudden

 

[Deaf Metal]

It's controlled by a number in GameSpeedInfo.xml. Most of marathon is 3x normal, but unit cost and anarchy were only doubled. barbarins were quadrupled.

 

[antimony]

My default time to switch to slavery is when the settler is out for city 2 but before it's founded (unless I plan to whip that first settler, which I generally avoid doing unless my start just has e.g. 2 good food tiles and nothing else good to work).

 

[6K Man]

Not sure about game speed (as I'm permanent Mara-noob for life) but map size does matter - Large can have 14 cities for "cheap" anarchy while Huge 16 cities (17th trigger extra turn, 33rd another extra etc.). Not rarely I find myself delaying settling city or two to get anarchy going before getting extra cities. If I'm still <14/16, I might do some "out of box" swap here and there for some diplo reasons (to get AIs to pleased or such).

Ahhh thanks. I mostly play Epic speed, and custom mapscripts for larger-than-Huge maps. I'll have to count my cities better!

 

[Plains-Cow]

I genuinely never play marathon. What's the angle behind it? It feels like it just makes the game a lot longer; maybe it's just better for war in general?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I genuinely never play marathon. What's the angle behind it? It feels like it just makes the game a lot longer; maybe it's just better for war in general?

Slower speeds in combination with disabling quick victory conditions like cultural allow you to really experience each era. Especially if you play modded and thus have access to more civs and much larger maps in general. It makes for a nice and immersive slow paced experience.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Slower speeds in combination with disabling quick victory conditions like cultural allow you to really experience each era. Especially if you play modded and thus have access to more civs and much larger maps in general. It makes for a nice and immersive slow paced experience.

Can you elaborate how it allows you to experience each era more? Also, how does the AI respond to disabling victory conditions?