[BTS] NIGERIAN PRINCE - Help walk me through a game

[Fish Man]

OK. A couple of people here have suggested that I post a map and just walk through a game, or rather the early game, with some of the veterans. So, without further ado:



NIGERIAN PRINCE - the redux

First question, I should probably settle in place right? Then build a worker and research agriculture? Wet corn looks delicious, bananas help somewhat (no jungle, a surprise to be sure but a welcome one) and while I would've preferred gems to dyes, 2f3c isn't bad. Should I cottage those dyes, wait until plantations, or cottage until plantations?

How should I explore with warrior? Go in one direction only, or move kind of like a spiral around my initial starting point?

 

[Pangaea]

Could you post the initial savegame as well?

Initial thought here is that it looks like a fine start, and that you should settle on one of the Dyes for more commerce early on. Probably the SE one so you get more rivers inside the BFC (the tiles the city can work). Before settling, however, move your warrior somewhere so you can get more information. Unfortunately he's not going to reveal a great deal with no hills to move onto, but maybe SW is the best move? Will at least tell you what you could lose by settling on the SE Dye instead of the S one.

With Dye and Banana, I think you have to assume there is Jungle nearby. Just the way it is. Hopefully the AI can settle and clear that for you, and then you take the cities when they are more mature and (partially) clearly of jungle, while you expand in a different direction yourself.

Before playing on, wait for advice from more people. Good luck

 

[Fish Man]

Could you post the initial savegame as well?

Initial thought here is that it looks like a fine start, and that you should settle on one of the Dyes for more commerce early on. Probably the SE one so you get more rivers inside the BFC (the tiles the city can work). Before settling, however, move your warrior somewhere so you can get more information. Unfortunately he's not going to reveal a great deal with no hills to move onto, but maybe SW is the best move? Will at least tell you what you could lose by settling on the SE Dye instead of the S one.

With Dye and Banana, I think you have to assume there is Jungle nearby. Just the way it is. Hopefully the AI can settle and clear that for you, and then you take the cities when they are more mature and (partially) clearly of jungle, while you expand in a different direction yourself.

Before playing on, wait for advice from more people. Good luck

Hnnnng...it hurts so much to settle on a resource. Old habits die hard, I guess.

But then again, you're right. Having an extra 2C this early in the game effectively multiplies my beaker output by x1.25 for at least the first 20-ish turns, and now that I think about it, that's huge.

Here's the save.

 

[Fippy]

Yep that SIP habit should die indeed, calendar resis are often very good to settle on.
They can be improved relative late, and getting 2c more early is great.

It's a bit unfortunate that you picked prince difficulty again, for a guided game there's no reason not to try Monarch+

Warrior scout move should always be done before settling.
In this case 1sw would help you find out if settling on left or right dye works better.
Right dye follows the river and would be prefered, so looking sw first to see if something nice would be missed makes sense.

 

[Fish Man]

Chose SE dye, explored a bit, crappy jungle to the south. Agriculture done; I assume go bronze working for slavery and chops? Not like I have any workable animal resources close by.

 

[lymond]

Hnnnng...it hurts so much to settle on a resource. Old habits die hard, I guess.

.

'

You and your Mansas..lol...great leader though

It depends on the resource really. First off, as has been noticed there can be benefit in settling on certain resources or tile yields to provide instant bonus to the default yield of the city center tile. I call it "what you see is what you get". Like a plains hill has 2 hammers, so your city tile will have 2H vs. the 1H. In the case of resources you are sacrificing that later resource yield for an earlier boost to commerce, hammers, or food. As I've stated in our other discussion, Civ IV is about more stuff/more soonerer (sic).

Actually improving a single dye tile will likely not come for quite some later in the game, probably closer to 100 turns or so unless it is deemed worthy to tech Calendar yourself earlier (rare).

So take that bonus now. Also, you bananas are another good tile to settle on as it increased your food output in the city, which not only speeds growth but speeds up that first worker.

However, we must also talk about analyzing the start. The first thing is analyzing what you see, food specials, etc.. Then one must decide where to move the warrior/scout Turn 0 to offer provide most information to make a final settling decision. Look around the fog. Notice trees in the fog (generally we can assume no resources there).

So with unit move, my thinking unfolds like so: a) provide information of what I may lose if inclined to move settler the opposite direction b) reveal enough to feel secure in current settling decision. In this case, the unit move is not of huge value from what I see, but since, as Pangaea noted, I think settling 1SE on dyes is best move, I would move warrior 1W or 1NW to just view those areas I would otherwise miss out on. (or 1SW )

Next, I usually want the best situation for a possible Bureau cap. That mean rivers. In this case, moving 1SE looks to actually increase the number of river tiles for the city, as that river flows to the SE. So that is a positive. So with more river tiles for cottages, plus the remaining dyes available, this could be a pretty good Bureau cap.

Yes, your spiral idea is along the right lines of scouting for the initial unit. Generally, a ten tile radius around the city center. Your goal is to reveal as much land in this radius to find potential city spots. Then set that unit up in a spawnbust position, usually nearest to what you think will be you next city. Further scouting can be perform later by subsequent units, but your first few warriors will spawnbust for now.

 

[lymond]

Another note: I recommend installing the BUG/BULL mod. Most here use this, or BAT, which is basically the same thing. You can install BUG/BULL in custom assets (SP option) and still play your current game.

 

[Fish Man]

Another note: I recommend installing the BUG/BULL mod. Most here use this, or BAT, which is basically the same thing. You can install BUG/BULL in custom assets (SP option) and still play your current game.

OK it is done.

So, what should I research next?

On that note, what is the proper procedure for determining where to cottage/farm? I've always given farming the benefit of the doubt, for food for whips and later for specialist spam, with only the occasional cottage anywhere. Apparently, though burea caps are really powerful. How do I get the most out of cottages without stunting growth? Would there be a proper time and place in the game to replace improvements?

 

[Fippy]

Let's quickly talk about the most important benefits of BUG
- you see red fists in the AIs list, warning you when somebody plots war (info could be gathered manually in diplo screens..but that's really tedious)
- workers stop chops 1t before completed, that's very important for micro later
- better sliders get you into the habit of using min / max
- more info = more fun, maybe i miss something else but those are the most obvious..

You already have 2 options here now, BW or pottery.
Your worker could cottage those dyes (yep that's what you do, not waiting on calendar you want cottages on such tiles).
Or BW for the faster expansion first.
There's no right or wrong on either here imo, depends on what you prefer to see.

Farms vs. cottages, your capital will be the most important research city in most games.
3f farms should not be used here on such starts, esp. not with financial.
Only resources & cottages for this city, and maybe a mine added if really needed but usually it's slavery for production early.

 

[lymond]

When you say research next, I assume you mean after BW. I think POT straight to Writing here is fine.

You food mainly comes from your food specials. You are still going to grow and growth will skyrocket once you get your Granary in place. Right now cottages not a priority, but you can start by slapping one down in the near future, You have wet corn and the 3 food banana as well for some extra growth speed in short term. you have a chop and a mine on that hill which is probably next, then start some chops for settlers/workers.

Keep turns short as possible and post saves so we can give pointed advice.

Again, overlap cities can help with more cottage growth.

Overall cottage growth and working is a gradual process for now. IT's not like you need to plant down 9 cottages right now. Start with one, and gradually add more as you have the bandwidth to work them via cap or helper cities.

My
-just more UI info in general
-city screen info and slavery button info
-great person/gg bar
-for me - heal/sentry button
-better advisors screen info

 

[Pangaea]

Having looked at your picture a few turns in, this looks like an excellent Buro capital. 10 green riverside tiles (excluding the two Dyes, which can be cottaged until Calendar). Great stuff. Good food too with wet Corn, plus the Banana. The banana can be cottaged too btw, seeing as you can't farm it (no fresh water, so can't be farmed until CS, when it should have another improvement anyway).

You can also note that this city is much stronger than if you had SIP. Generally SIP won't get you a bad city, but moving away can sometimes get you (much) better ones. That can be important early on, especially on the higher difficult levels.

As expected there is jungle nearby. Will be important to turn your warrior around in a NE direction now, to see if there are good settling locations over there, as you don't want to settle into jungle so early. Unfortunately the land looks bit brown, but hopefully there is fine food there -- and maybe copper?

I also like those riverside green hills to the east, but it's too early to tell whether you want to settle there next. Food could make it a candidate.

Given there are so many riverside cottages for the capital, a good move here could be to settle a couple "helper cities", with overlap with capital BFC, that helps grow cottages for the capital. Later on, when you have more happiness and the capital can grow bigger, it can take over villages and town instead of starting on a brand new cottage instead. Cities like this is also cheaper on maintenance.

 

[lymond]

right now, despite jungle, 1E of cow is good helper/overlap city. However, copper reveal will likely determine you first city or not, or better foo sources revealed by scouting. Generally you avoid the jungle stuff for some time, since IW is not a priority...and you will usually wait to trade for that tech.

And you clearly have 2 potential helper/overlap cities near Tim, although these city will have low outputs, so will take lower priority for some time based on what else is revealed. You usually want your first couple of cities to have good outputs initially (food,commerce[gold], production[copper])

 

[Fish Man]

When you say research next, I assume you mean after BW. I think POT straight to Writing here is fine.

You food mainly comes from your food specials. You are still going to grow and growth will skyrocket once you get your Granary in place. Right now cottages not a priority, but you can start by slapping one down in the near future, You have wet corn and the 3 food banana as well for some extra growth speed in short term. you have a chop and a mine on that hill which is probably next, then start some chops for settlers/workers.

Keep turns short as possible and post saves so we can give pointed advice.

Again, overlap cities can help with more cottage growth.

Overall cottage growth and working is a gradual process for now. IT's not like you need to plant down 9 cottages right now. Start with one, and gradually add more as you have the bandwidth to work them via cap or helper cities.

My
-just more UI info in general
-city screen info and slavery button info
-great person/gg bar
-for me - heal/sentry button
-better advisors screen info

Got started on a farm. I assume just build warrior next, because there is nothing else worth building now, and also fogbusting?

 

[Archon_Wing]

Yea, the thing is Calendar takes a while to get so you dojn't have to worry about plantations or what not. But the real question is where to move the warrior?

Spoiler :

I picked warrior SE.... so S seems to make most sense?

Oh that jungle ;;

As of 3600 BC....

Spoiler :

It seems like ah---> pottery---> writing seems in order. I think I'll need to settle that east spot soon depending on where Ragnar is coming from. He sounds like bad news.

That's a problem I have when starting with guys like that. He can plot at pleased anyways and also attack early, so what do you do against that if you have no military resources?

 

[Pangaea]

A warrior next is fine, you want a few of those anyway, and they're excellent and cheap military police. When the city hits size 3, you can start on a settler, or alternative wait till 4 (depends how timing works out), and double-whip it. This is one of the many reasons Slavery is the best civic in the game.

 

[lymond]

Got started on a farm. I assume just build warrior next, because there is nothing else worth building now, and also fogbusting?

correct, build warriors while growing to size 3 or 4 before starting settler. Usually at least one warrior finishes before starting settler. Size 3 or 4 depending on growth potential and how fast one will go for BW. 4>2 whip of settler is a good thing for not only speed but for whip hammer OF into next unit. usually worker. Have a chop ready for that whip for quick second worker, or even settler depending on situation.

 

[lymond]

A warrior next is fine, you want a few of those anyway, and they're excellent and cheap military police spawnbusters

fixed that for you

(although you are correct otherwise)

 

[Pangaea]

Fair enough I meant for later of course. Early on you don't need military police, but at some point you do, and then it's nice to have some warriors, because all other units are more expensive to build (and by that point you probably can't build warriors anyway, due to metal).

 

[lymond]

warriors da best unit in da game next to the worker

edit: oh..and another benie of BUG ---> Dotmapping (Alt-X)

 

[Fippy]

With bw first, farming 1 dye becomes the best next worker move after corn..just throwing that in here
3f3c tile is strong early.

I know i wrote no farms for your Cap here earlier, but that's not really true for improvements on special stuff like financial dye.
In this case you are missing a good second tile that supports food (and food = growth), so it's a very good choice now. Ofc it's turned into a plantation later.

edit: that's way too fast played
Never use hammers from chops for warriors, unless you rush with them..
umm that sounds so weird.

Anyways it's too fast, not cos it cannot work that way..
but you need to learn respecting early turns.