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Night of the Werewolves XXVII: Night of Blood

Discussion in 'Mafia/NOTW' started by oyzar, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    Yay! Pinman AAR!

    Also, Renata, how far are you with your NotW? I am ashamed to say that mine is only a bit more than half done, and I need to balance it once I'm done with the PMs... I'd like it if someone else went before me.
     
  2. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    There was only Sepuku. Both werewolves and vampires started with a single player, who had the ability to convert. Sepuku never converted anyone.

    No, Niklas did. I was referring to Pinman telling me they'd caught my killer after stee was found out. But it was actually Niklas that had killed me. Hard to keep my mouth shut then. :)
     
  3. KingMorgan

    KingMorgan Deity

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    AAR - First Days

    I get to be a priest that cures people from some afflictions, hooray!
    (Turns out only Vamp and Wolves can be cured.)

    After seeing the fuss with Sepku and Frozen and Winston, i gamble that out of the 3 of them only sepeku is a wolf, and that the three of them have some kind of link in their PM's that would make them all trustable. I send a PM to Frozen explaining that someone has contacted me saying they have a cure. It would seem that Frozen had been talking to Mr Pinman, next thing i know he is harassing me telling me that i'm curer and to cut the excuses. As i was rumbled i have no choice but to admit it. I almost fully disclosed my abilites with a little fudge here and there.

    A short time later i have a huge paranoia hit after a convo with Pinman, so bad I suss out methos and share what i know with him, unbeknown to me he turns out to be the knifeman.

    I had showed Pinman and methos my evil book. when this book was shown i also got a message that the viewer coudl not understand the runes, however it states clearly in my PM that any person with bad intentions is able to understand them. I file this away for later as it would be a rather good prophet item. It gave me great confidence after seeing that methos and pinman were unable to read the runes. I'd already worked out that they were not wolves and unlikely to be Vamps.

    I was very keen to use the book as i was told that it was not able to be destroyed. Usually i'd make it to day 7 or so before being killed / lynched so i was keen to deal with this great evil and put it beyond the reach of the demons.

    As i was curing Seuku i sort of tricked him into sending a PM to Ozyar agreing to let me do what ever i wanted to him. He inadvertently became the sacrifice i needed to use the book. As i was wary of Pinman at this time and a little drunk, i sent a PM to Oyz asking to use the book on myself, then completely forgot about it. :blush: (Only later the next day after a random comment from Ozyar did i realise what had happened - someone was preventing Sep from night actions) This turned out to a most fortunate event.

    Less than 24 hours later Pinman is back in the good books and Methos joins the cabal, As you could have guessed i wasn;t too bothered that sepku would be hung, i did do a good job of a support vote which i hoped would get the heat off for a day if nothing else, Pinman was a very vocal support of Sep - in private at least. He and i cooked up a rather nice note, (major credit to pinman for a very well written piece) we hoped that this would keep sepuku alive and keep him as a focal point for any potenial converts to be cured. This was after i had been given a huge telling off from Pinman for my support for Sepku.

    That night i cured sepuku, i figured that would prove my innocence and also increase the cabals inncocent members.
     
  4. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    Sepuku mentioning werewolves to anyone was pretty bad. He knew that frozen and winston had been nearby but neither had seen the werewolf. As you say it quickly became irrelevant as Sepuku pmed Frozen and Winston his true identity...

    Pretty much all bad guys screwed up one way or another. This made what would be a game scewed in favour of the bad guys heavily in favour of the innocents pulling an early win.
     
  5. Pinman

    Pinman Demons & Brazil

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    In retrospect your support vote on Sepuku actually helped us quite abit. By keeping Sepuku alive, our cabal really got a chance to take off.

    Consider this me humbly begging for your forgiveness on that point.:blush:
     
  6. TheForestAuro

    TheForestAuro Whisper in the Trees

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    I should have never died >:/

    When I was injured by the amulet, I became "injured". My ability, the dream eating, kills me if I don't feed while injured. However, the night I became injured I actually physically injured myself IRL - I sliced the tip of my thumb off at work (I work in a restaurant) while doing food prep. I spent most of the rest of the day dealing with the fact that I had about 3/4's of a CM less of a thumb! :p

    So I never sent in a target :p
     
  7. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

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    Although it didn't work out as he intended (for which I must take a share of the blame), I think oyzar cooked up a most excellent game here, and he deserves special praise for being a most diligent and organised GM. :hatsoff:

    And congratulations to the surviving innocents, especially Pinman and KingMorgan, who took full advantage of the villains' errors to guide the good guys to victory in some style. :goodjob:

    Yeah, why did he have to die? It would've been most amusing if he'd survived to the end after being accused so many times.

    To describe me as a prophet is rather misleading, given that I could only scan for something that did not exist. :p

    He did that because I talked him into it. (Incidentally, Pinman, this is what I was meant when I said I wasn't lying - technically I wasn't. The reason I was pretty sure Sepuku's ability had been blocked was not that Forest told me he was going to do it, but that I told him to do it!)

    :lol: At that point you were the only person on it, since I hadn't actually made a list yet. Subsequently, I did compare a few people's writing styles to the letter, but you were always the prime suspect.
     
  8. Pinman

    Pinman Demons & Brazil

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    Day 2

    So, I was a vampire. An evil creature, and the brunt of it is, I don’t even get to see who bit me!:mad: In fact, Backwards Logic never contacted me till much later in Day 3. To make a long story short, I was committed to winning as an innocent ( See Day 1 Post) so I informed Morgan that I had been converted. Seeing as I felt my scan confirmed him curing Sepuku, I also told him my ability. He said that he was sure that Sepuku’s curse had been removed- he was innocent. He later revealed to me that he had inadvertently tried to complete the demon ritual, but some unknown force had stopped him- an interesting development.

    That folks was the beginning of the cure team- myself, Morgan and Sepuku could now essentially be positive of each others innocence. ( Although I didn’t tell Sepuku about my ability yet- im a cautious fellow)

    In any event, myself and Morgan decided on another note to try and reinforce the notion that Sepuku was innocent. Youll note that it records the paralysis as not having come from us. We weren’t prepared to expose ourselves by not voting for Sepuku at this stage, and it was only luck that had Methos call out Tolis to die instead.

    Sepuku did however have an interesting Tidbit for me. He told me that Catharsis had approached him saying that each day, he could scan one sentence written in the thread the previous day to see if it was true or not. Apparently, on Night 1 he scanned one of Frozen’s sentences and found out that Sepuku was indeed being cured. This explains his accusation of Niklas and not Sepuku. At this stage of course, I was not prepared to trust Catharsis.

    Now, by this point myself and Methos had had quite afew discussions. I had told him my theories about the game setup, and he in turn had added his comments. We also discussed what to do with Sepuku in length. So after he announced that Tolis was a demon, and knew a second innocent demon, we started up another conversation. It was at this point that it occurred to me that all the innocent demons had to have a function. Specifically I concluded that they had to be immune to conversation! A sort of neccisary counter to the conversion teams. It also explained the existence of Morgan’s book- he could create another innocent buffer against the conversion teams! Thus I announced to Methos that I figured Tolis was innocent as it was the only thing that explained his behaviour. Of course, we didn’t know about the evil demons at this stage.

    In any event, Methos was impressed with my logic, and started to ask me about myself. (Finally addressing the elephant in the room) In any event, upon my refusal, Methos took an absolutely huge leap. He told me that he was the innocent vigilante knife killer. He noted that he tried to kill Tolis, but failed because he was too strong. I figured that if he truly was guilty, he wouldn’t have made such a bold pronouncement- so I decided to partially trust him. As you will see, this didn’t last.

    My compromise was not to expose Morgan, but to tell Methos that I was the curer. Methos was extremely sceptical, claiming that he was already approached by a curer. Now this absolutely shocked me, as Morgan had never told me he approached Methos! Methos asked me if I had paralyzed Sepuku as well, and forewarned by Morgan, I answered that I ( or the true curer) had not done that. Luckily, this was the right answer to his test, as Methos’ second demon ( TFA as I was to soon discover) had told Methos that *they* paralyzed Sepuku. Thus Methos believed me, and told me he was going to double check with the other curer, but we should probably kill that person.

    At this point alarm bells were ringing in my head- I was putting Morgan in big danger if this was him. I decided to spill that I wasn’t the curer to Methos, and asked him to tell me the identity of his curer. He eventually agreed and told me that it was Morgan. With him having revealed this, I decided to tell him everything, including the fact that I was a night action prophet and my vampireness. He agreed that he would have to perform a kill that night to prove his ability. ( And thus could not be the vampire master according to my logic- whose ability had to be to convert other people. Furthermore, if he was performing supplementary kills, he couldn’t be the tear apart person.) At this stage, Methos refused to tell us who the second demon was- but I was too find out TFA’s identity another way.

    Earlier on, Sepuku noted that Winston told him that he knew who paralyzed him. Now I knew from Methos that this person was the second demon. So I went to Winston, and we had a long discussion about game mechanics. (by this point I had told him all my theories) Eventually I pressed him, and using some stellar logical processes, I guessed that TFA was the second demon. Essentially, I knew that TFA was one of three people online when Methos received his PM, and his voting patterns suggested that he was the demon. (He didn’t vote for Tolis) In any event, Winston wouldn’t answer me, although we did play some interesting mind games, but after our conversation I was suddenly contacted by TFA.

    TFA told me that he had been informed by a source that I thought he was a demon. He proceeded to launch into a lengthy crusade about how he wasn’t actually a demon and I was misinterpreting the facts. Suffice it to say I didn’t believe him, and he eventually admitted that he was methos’ innocent demon. I informed him that I believed his story about being innocent, and thought he was probably unconvertible. However, at this stage, I didn’t reveal anything about myself.

    I did finally get to hold sprig’s Hammer on day 2, although he stalled a lot on giving it to me: (He kept getting delayed by RL apparently)

    Spoiler :
    The Mayor's Widow give the Wine Farmer the small hammer. It is a symbol of offiece for the mayor. The ones that hold it speaks with the autority of that office even if it isn't officially appointed. This makes the accusations of that person twice the power and an the ability to solve any twists that people absolutely can't agree on (works as a tiebreaker). After examining the hammer, the Wine Farmer hands it back to the Mayor's Widow.


    Another minor note from the day concerns Kulko. Since Day 1, he had been attempting to get information out of me- with me continuing to refuse on the grounds that open information sharing is bad for the innocents. However, I did give him a scare by accusing him of being a vampire prophet on Day 1- something he informed sprig to be safe. Anyways, Kulko noted that he thought Renata had been killed because she made a comment in the thread implying she was a Werewolf prophet. This thought was to influence a later scan of Kulko- which actually lead to a bit of drama. (Which Kulko never actually became aware of)

    The following was revealed in the Book of Werewolves that day:

    Spoiler :
    You managed to spend some time between all the conspiracies to read a bit in the book:

    The process to convert a humaniod being into a werewolf is rather simple. The werewolf needs to inflict a serious wound on the person that it wan't to convert. Then it can spread it's saliva or blood in the wound. This will heal the wound and allow the werewolf essence to spread through the victim. At the same time as the blood or saliva heals the victim it also transform it into a werewolf itself.


    Myself, Methos and Morgan had a raging debate over who to kill that night. We really weren’t sure down to the wire, and there were a lot of possible suspects including Chandrasekhar, Autolycus, and Ekolite. I tried to steer the conversation towards Chand, in fact I suggested him, in order to try and fulfill my objective. Obviously my attempts failed, which turned out to be very good for the game. We ultimately decided on Ekolite, who I felt had made suspicious references to me being converted during a conversation that day. He was also dangerous to Sepuku.

    I scanned Winston, who was too close to our circle to remain an unknown, while Morgan cured me:

    Spoiler :

    The whole night feel different. All your senses are so much sharper than they were before and your movements are much smoother. You feel like you do everything. After a while you arrive at the Bakery, but sadly the Baker is already gone. You don't feel like sticking around the entiere night for someone who might not come back...

    When you come back to your farm, suddenly the world is spinning. Everything gets out of focus and the world go quiet... After a while you realize things just went back to how they were before. Damn was your eyesight really that bad? At any rate you don't feel like a vampire anymore...

    Your race and victory condition are now back to normal.
     
  9. civplayah

    civplayah phantasm

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    By the way, Winston, I interrogated you and it said you could scan for ghosts...
    In the game, what is a ghost?
     
  10. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    Only thing that would check out for ghost was someone saved with renatas stone.
     
  11. civplayah

    civplayah phantasm

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    Oh, that's what that did. And she never used it.
    Well, glad to see my tools went to use in killing the last demon.
     
  12. thomas.berubeg

    thomas.berubeg Wandering the World

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    oh, wow. I come back and the game is over. and I've accomplished my goal without any effort on my part.

    :\

    sorry I couldn't be more involved.
     
  13. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

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    Ah, so much of the action in these games happens behind the scenes. Before Pinman contacted me, I was using my ability to try and force people to kill each other, and if a person I chose to get killed was actually killed, then I'd know that the one I tried to make kill him was almost certainly a killer. As it happened, this generally wouldn't work on the demons, and gave me a false innocent reading on TFA. I was also suspicious of all this curing business and wanted to lynch Sepuku to confirm it. However, after I got contacted by Pinman... Well, he knew more than I did at that point, so I'll let him cover it in his AAR.

    It seems like these games are being decided by backroom deals and private nighttime interactions more and more. Voting records and public statements mean very little, especially with conversion mechanics out there. I'm thinking that if I host another game, it'll have restricted private messaging to combat this tendency.
     
  14. CCRunner

    CCRunner Deity

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    Another bad side effect of that is that to those people who are not in the main innocent group of three or four people, it can get slightly annoying how they know so much more than you and pretty much anything you get is scraps.
     
  15. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    The reason voting mattered so little in this game was in part because very few voted. It was also because the bad guys messed up so bad and the innocents with abilities had good ideas who to use them on. If they had not known it would have been very different...
     
  16. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    You have a point, Chand, but I don't think restricting private messaging is the answer necessarily. So many of us have such fun with it. :) I would be happy if conversion mechanics were kept out of most games (except ones like this where it's sort of the point -- in fact, oyzar, I think you could rerun something very similar to this if you wanted to try it again: it would work just fine with people knowing about the conversion teams in advance) and announced as such; that would help somewhat.

    But not speaking of anyone else, I go to voting records in pretty much every game towards the end. oyzar is correct, though, the lack of voting kills that idea more than anything else. And I think the only way to really fix that is to agree as a community that we're going to start punishing people who don't vote or rarely vote with lynches and even night kills, as appropriate. Voting has to become a necessary part of the game again.

    I think we should also make prophets less powerful, to go along with that. Not by making them false outright (I hate that), but maybe taking some of what Chand did a step or two further ... ideally no single prophet would be able to nail anyone to the wall by themselves. Or by restricting prophets to the more ambiguous types such as "night watchmen" and the like.

    But both these things have to happen at once, or it's just advantage: wolves.
     
  17. KingMorgan

    KingMorgan Deity

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    Day 2

    I had established that Pinman was innocent, during one convo I learnt Methos was the knife man and all sorts of interesting titbits on who was who and had what, mostly through Pinman. During one convo he confessed to being converted the night before, he of course was cured that night. Our big hope was the vamp master would contact him and revel himself for lynch. Sadly we had to wait for that.

    After my postings in the thread i decided that i'd take it easy, having Pinman converted made me release that my ability was important until we'd found the vamp master and ensured that no more wolves were present. I kept a low profile and didn't speak to many people other than the ones I was sure were innocent. i.e Pinman and Methos. Given pinners love of the game and experience i was happy to take back seat role as a consultant and sounding board. I spoke a to Winston a few times and was hoping to bring him into the cabal. Sadly my groundwork was in vain. I had a brief one sided convo with Chand - didn't really feel was i getting anywhere so didn;t persue further contact.

    Autoclys and IceKom approached me to marry them, i spoke with icekom on IM expressing my desire for a little proof they were innocent and not pulling some ritual scam with me, Ice was very coopertative and showed me his items, i was happy he was on the level, sadly Auto wasn't so helpful (no reply) and I refused to to marry them. i wasn;t willing to go out on a limb as my ability was too important to the innocent team, and not wanting to raise my profile in the thread.

    I swapped Im contact with Tolis who sadly passed away before i could make real contact. i was keen to see what effect my cure would have on him as i was unsure if the book would call and Innocent or Evil demon.


    As for the formation of teams, it's difficult to form them unless there is some communication. I've played a good few games now and i can honestly say some other players have never contacted me to this day, admittedly i have not chased after an inital PM but even so, i think only 2 or 3 people actually contacted me this NoTW. Once i figured i needed to keep my head down i rarley spoke to anyone but trusted people.
     
  18. KingMorgan

    KingMorgan Deity

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    I would have to agree that everyone should vote. I'd be prepared to go further and insist that everyone votes, with a 3 strikes and your out rule.
     
  19. PaulusIII

    PaulusIII Unholy Warlord

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    In earlier NOTW's we had the inactive voteoff. That's been overused by wolves though :p
     
  20. Catharsis

    Catharsis catch u on the flip scythe

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    Alright, first things first, a big thank you to oyzar for running this game - I had a lot of fun with it and even got to be a non-innocent for the first time, if only briefly. Your writeups were great and you were always on time with the updates. Nice job. :goodjob:

    Now then, let's have a pointless discussion:

    And for the rest of us, it makes the game a lot less fun, and a lot less interesting.

    To be honest, that's probably not a fault of the game: that's just how the game is, now. You need to be able to work the PM/IM angle, and if you can't, you're not going to do that well, just like if you couldn't decipher behaviour changes and voting patterns in earlier games, you wouldn't do that well. The difference is that voting patterns are all-inclusive, whereas PMs and IMs are by nature exclusive. But if that's the way these things are played now, then that's fine.

    (Also, if you wanted to restrict PMs, TPCIOE-style, you'd have to restrict IMs, too. How would you go about doing that? Seriously, how would you: I don't know anything about that aspect of the game.)

    100% agree with this. The 'three-strikes' method (FUN FACT: I typed 'methos' instead of 'method' there for a minute :twitch:) Morgan mentioned would be a good start (might be a bit too lenient, though :mischief:). It would help the wolves, perhaps, but it would also help those who are actually trying to play the game properly, too. For example, we wouldn't need that whole 'lynch the inactives' rigmarole that inevitably uses up the first two or three days of every game.

    There's also the matter of suspension of disbelief. Now I have never found myself trapped in a village with a group of unrepentant killers with a strangely mechanical 'one-per-night' murder quota, and God willing I never will be, but it seems to me that when faced with this situation, the villagers would not immediately huddle into groups to discuss things in an entirely rational manner. Seems more likely that, to quote Niklas, 'accusations fly back and forth, tempers flare, steel flashes and blood is spilled'. So any player who does this without voting is not really entering into the spirit of things, perhaps.

    IMO a more pressing concern even than inactives are those people who show up two minutes before the deadline and place a completely unreasoned vote that can't be argued against. (This isn't a matter of high horses and getting on them: I am guilty of having performed this little manoeuvre myself. In Pinman's game.) I consider abusing the update times that to be cheating, in the same way that copying PMs into the main thread is cheating - it's just not in the spirit of the game. The only way I can think of to get shot of that, though, is to allow talking at night, and well, that rule's been around since NotW II. Maybe it just wouldn't work, changing that. Dunno.
     

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