NiGHTS: General Discussion

Man, I'm bad at this game. Most of the civs were at least an era ahead of me for most of the game on Warlord. I think it's because I don't like having lots of cities, and don't expand much.
 
Man, I'm bad at this game. Most of the civs were at least an era ahead of me for most of the game on Warlord. I think it's because I don't like having lots of cities, and don't expand much.

What difficulty level were you playing on? The AI do expand faster compared to vanilla CIV V, which is where the mods main challenge comes from. At the same time, they're much more open to diplomacy and less hostile during the first 100 or so turns, so there'll be less stepping on the AI's toes regarding them disliking you for expanding.

If you prefer to play a tall game (6-8 cities on standard - anything less will be very difficult barring loads of puppet cities), then Rationalism is an early must as far as policy branches go. After adopting Rationalism make sure to play a specialist economy and take the policy under Rationalism that gives bonus science to specialists.

Also - mines generate +1 science each, which can also make a difference in the early game when you're getting up your Apothecaries and Libraries. Taking out Barb camps is also very important when playing tall empires, as these units automatically join your side without the happiness penalty of normal units (until they're upgraded) which can play a huge role in allowing for early expansion.

It'll take some time to get the hang of things, but overall there's lots of different paths you can take, and while the AI does expand faster than in vanilla, I'd say there's also more options at your disposal to play a viable tall strategy as of the latest version compared to vanilla. :)
 
What difficulty level were you playing on? The AI do expand faster compared to vanilla CIV V, which is where the mods main challenge comes from. At the same time, they're much more open to diplomacy and less hostile during the first 100 or so turns, so there'll be less stepping on the AI's toes regarding them disliking you for expanding.

If you prefer to play a tall game (6-8 cities on standard - anything less will be very difficult barring loads of puppet cities), then Rationalism is an early must as far as policy branches go. After adopting Rationalism make sure to play a specialist economy and take the policy under Rationalism that gives bonus science to specialists.

Also - mines generate +1 science each, which can also make a difference in the early game when you're getting up your Apothecaries and Libraries. Taking out Barb camps is also very important when playing tall empires, as these units automatically join your side without the happiness penalty of normal units (until they're upgraded) which can play a huge role in allowing for early expansion.

It'll take some time to get the hang of things, but overall there's lots of different paths you can take, and while the AI does expand faster than in vanilla, I'd say there's also more options at your disposal to play a viable tall strategy as of the latest version compared to vanilla. :)
I only had 6 cities, and only two were really productive. One of them was annexed, one was a puppet, and one of them I only made on a tiny strip of land because another civ was blocking the path of my ships. I refrained from building much on a lot of my cities, though, because the building maintenance costs didn't seem worth it.
 
I only had 6 cities, and only two were really productive. One of them was annexed, one was a puppet, and one of them I only made on a tiny strip of land because another civ was blocking the path of my ships. I refrained from building much on a lot of my cities, though, because the building maintenance costs didn't seem worth it.

The Commerce branch is really solid in the early game, as it offsets the maintenance of early buildings by having them generate +1 gold each. Also important to keep in mind, Trading Posts give an extra +1 gold if they're built right beside a city - which can really pay off in the early game as well. I'll usually go for one of the free worker policies early, then as soon as my economy starts to slow down, I adopt Commerce for the quick boost.
 
The Commerce branch is really solid in the early game, as it offsets the maintenance of early buildings by having them generate +1 gold each. Also important to keep in mind, Trading Posts give an extra +1 gold if they're built right beside a city - which can really pay off in the early game as well.
I managed to hang around between 200 to 300 gold per round later in the game, nearly 1000 during an oligarchy, after dumping all my points in commerce and having a generous location for my capital. I'm guessing it's not supposed to be like vanilla where there generally no reason not to build something though. Also, do puppet cities have maintenance costs?
 
Thanks very much to everyone who has dedicated hard work to developing this fantastic mod.

I've been having a lot of fun with this.

However, I wonder if there is a list somewhere which explains all the changes to Civilization leader traits. Unfortunately, this is not listed in the description on the first page of this thread, and I cannot find such a list anywhere.

I would like to know what all the leader special abilities are now. For example, I noticed that Japan no longer gets the Bushido trait where your units attack at full strength even when injured.

Also I noticed that the Aztec Sacrificial Captives has been changed from

"Sacrificial Captives: Gives culture for each enemy unit killed"

to:

"25% strength bonus when fighting enemies inside your own borders and 30% discount on gold maintenance"

I understand why these changes were made, but I'm having a hard time figuring out the pros and cons of each civilization without some sort of master list that explains all these changes. It would be awesome if this list of changes could be added to the OP. I suppose the only other alternative would be to start a dozen new games playing as every available Civ?

Many thanks!
 
All bonus's are listed on the civ select screen when starting a game? I think they were also listed in the changelog when they went live, but yeah, civ abilities listed in the OP would be nice.
 
Thanks very much to everyone who has dedicated hard work to developing this fantastic mod.

I've been having a lot of fun with this.

However, I wonder if there is a list somewhere which explains all the changes to Civilization leader traits. Unfortunately, this is not listed in the description on the first page of this thread, and I cannot find such a list anywhere.

I would like to know what all the leader special abilities are now. For example, I noticed that Japan no longer gets the Bushido trait where your units attack at full strength even when injured.

Also I noticed that the Aztec Sacrificial Captives has been changed from

"Sacrificial Captives: Gives culture for each enemy unit killed"

to:

"25% strength bonus when fighting enemies inside your own borders and 30% discount on gold maintenance"

I understand why these changes were made, but I'm having a hard time figuring out the pros and cons of each civilization without some sort of master list that explains all these changes. It would be awesome if this list of changes could be added to the OP. I suppose the only other alternative would be to start a dozen new games playing as every available Civ?

Many thanks!

Could it be you playing the german version of civ? I had the same problem. You have to change ingame language then all descriptions are ok. The Aztecs still have their ability.
 
@markusbeutel -

Just an opinion, I don't expect anything to change... but the whole 20% Military Production penalty thing is ******ed.

Simply because I seek to take advantage of my UU (playing as Americans), I'm now paying 1000 gold to upgrade a Minutemen to a Rifleman instead of the 170. I understand what you were trying to achieve, but you need to find a different mechanic.... this one is just so far out of left field in terms of representing reality or even game balance that it's just batsh!t insane. I shudder to think how the AI is handling it.

I know most mod/dev decisions come down to either a "reality vs fun" equation...

I'm sorry but I don't see how it can be justified from either perspective. From a "gameplay/balance/fun" equation it's just ugly. From a "reality/representative" perspective it's just shy of literally ridiculous.

Obviously it's your mod, and thus you're entitled to do whatever you want with it, and there are I'm sure plenty of people who disagree with me. But I'm just not feeling it.

Otherwise, great mod... ;)
 
I gotta agree with Uncle Anton. Especially in later eras when the numbers of troop types are very limited. When all you are using is infantry and artillery those 20% increases hurt much more than in the medieval era with the more different kinds of troops.
 
I'll agree with Anton and Huck that a little mercy here would be welcome. I'm currently at war with everybody (hey, I didn't start it!), and only three cities can build new units in under 100 turns (on Marathon, Large). Can't afford to build the improvements that speed up unit creation because I have to build everything that helps money.

I'm OK with the cost of units increasing, but think it needs to be toned down. (Question: when units are destroyed, does the cost of replacements drop?) You could follow other games that have the opposite (and more logical) cost structure: The first unit is a very expensive prototype, and subsequent units get cheaper as the assembly lines gear up. But that might be more of a balance challenge than you want to get into.

Incidentally, I think the economic balance in 11.8 is pretty good. It's very difficult, but not impossible, to stay in the black, it definitely forces one to concentrate on gold, and the AI seems to cope with it reasonably well. It could always use a little more tinkering, but you could get away with calling it "done".
 
just piping up here to give a big :goodjob: for this mod, and 11.8 in particular! I'm currently enjoying a fun 'diversion' type game where I've essentially established myself as the leader (not runaway) and am simply defending against all comers... I think tonight I'll put Greece out of their misery though :)

Great job Markus as always. If I ever come into money, I'm going to come to Vancouver and offer you a partnership to develop some epic PC games! (you do all the work, and I'll go to lunch with people in nice suits... you know, typical financial partnership!)
 
resource option:

Scarce luxuries and abundant bonus/strategic resources. For lack of a more concise name, i call it 'richly bland'
 
Does this mod still not support laptop resolutions? I quit it due to research screen not displaying correctly on 1366x768
 
Some more feedback:
I got the NiGHTS Diplomatic Victory for the first time, and I was surprised that the AIs did nothing to stop me; they didn't make any apparent effort to steal City States.

I'm finding it really tedious to convert my mines and trading posts to manufactories and customs houses. I like the idea of having more than four improvements, but maybe instead of the "new" improvements being upgrades, maybe they should be alternatives like the workshop and windmill in Civ IV. For example, in NiGHTS maybe the Manufactory should be like the workshop; a way to get extra hammers on flatland tiles. (Also, the Manufactory is ugly on hill tiles and flatland cities really struggle with production, so there are some other benefits.) You could probably come up with a way to make the Customs House more unique as well, and you could even rename the building because it's kinda generic looking.

Also, I like that trading posts adjacent to cities get extra commerce; this makes decisions about city placement and improvement placement more interesting, especially when cities are next to rivers. I think that it could be interesting to do something similar with railroads + mines or roads + trading posts/custom house. Or maybe tie the customs house to open borders agreements or trade routes.

In a recent game I puppetted a city that had build a Black Market and I discovered that I was not able to destroy that building without annexing the city, ruining my plans for my black market coastal city. I don't know if this is by design, but I kinda think that all national wonders should be destroyed when a city is captured.

Does this mod still not support laptop resolutions? I quit it due to research screen not displaying correctly on 1366x768

I think there's a fix somewhere in this thread, but I have just used a mouse with a scroll wheel. If you click on the research screen somewhere then use the scroll wheel on the mouse, it should scroll left and right. Sometimes I experience a delay but I think that only occurs late-game on large maps.

[edit: in the second paragraph, I wrote "trading post" in a place where I meant "customs house", and although the intent was probably clear, I decided to correct it.]
 
I don't use a mouse on my laptop at all, and multitouch scrolling unfortunately doesn't cut it.
 
I generally hate ICS and only make 3 cities, and build a ton of wonders. I'm guessing this strategy isn't viable on immortal and higher difficulties? I tried one game and my nearest neighbor had 20 or so units sitting on our borders, where I promptly exited the game.
 
I'll see if I can bump them up a bit on the tree for v11.9. The problem is that if you beeline them, they will appear at more or less the proper timeframe, it's just in my experience based on saves people have sent me, players generally focus on the land-military tech routes, which leaves the naval routes lagging behind.

The problem may have more to do with Space Flight. If going for a science victory, the naval techs will definitely be the ones left behind as IIRC those techs don't help build the space ship at all (no hammers, etc).

Now that said, in a game where science victory is turned off (for example my favourite: the time and domination only game without pushing for dom), the tech tree might be good as is.

It might make sense to push both diplo and science victory forward. Diplo by requiring a later tech (or multiple pre-req techs for the UN), science by requiring one of the naval techs for the cockpit and possibly another tech for another spaceship part, on top of Space Flight. Just spitballing.
 
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