NiGHTS: General Discussion

[dasvidania]

Hi guys, my impression after after some hours (v2 G&K)

1. building cost too high
2. Chose new build impossible after capturing enemy city, i must save and reload
3. espionage it seems to be to high

 

[Balerune]

Do Great artists only start golden ages now? I'd like to see them either be able to found a cultural wonder, or return some of the culture bomb ability, except that they would need to be standing IN your territory, not next to it to start it. I also really like what you've done with the great generals, it adds a lot more sense to territory expansions with a balance, and IMO makes the citadel far more useful than it used to be.

...


TL DR,

Thanks for a G&K version.

I casually looked at the G&K online manual and one of the changes was Great Artists don't culture bomb anymore. Personally, I'm glad Firaxis did this. They can still build landmarks for culture.

And for things I'd like: the inclusion of Galleass.

The AI, with the Privateer etc. ships, is now better at naval warfare as they directly attack cities.

 

[gazius]

I casually looked at the G&K online manual and one of the changes was Great Artists don't culture bomb anymore. Personally, I'm glad Firaxis did this. They can still build landmarks for culture.

Do you mean in the default version of the game? I haven't found a tile that my great artist can build it on.

 

[markusbeutel]

Do Great artists only start golden ages now? I'd like to see them either be able to found a cultural wonder, or return some of the culture bomb ability, except that they would need to be standing IN your territory, not next to it to start it. I also really like what you've done with the great generals, it adds a lot more sense to territory expansions with a balance, and IMO makes the citadel far more useful than it used to be.

Regarding policies, I'd like to see them become intimately tied with a LOT of the bonuses you get, as I see them as defining the traits of a nation. Perhaps it was an early version of NIGHTS, or another mod, but one had each policy tree as a government type, and you could select different policies from different branches to 'compose' your government. I may have a war policy based on monarchy, but enfranchisement based on democracy. Or something like that, something closer to how Beyond the Sword, or perhaps that was just Rise of Mankind, handled policies. It went a long way in immersing me in my country rather than now where beyond picking my starting bonus as a nation I don't feel particularly connected to them.

Perhaps religious buildings could be added, or cultural ones so that, if you're France, Spain, or Rome, you've got Latin influence and so can build a select few that keep you involved in the notion of Western Europe. Perhaps religious buildings that promote a few notable traits about each religion.

I would suggest upping the bonus by the academy a bit, or else recheck the code for the bonus of them being next to each other, right now I only get 3 beakers, when I can get 2 beakers and 2 hammers from a manufactury buildable in the same spot.

TL DR,

Thanks for a G&K version.

They only start golden ages, yes - I'd like to eventually add in the component that lest them found cultural wonders like in previous versions, but haven't gotten around to testing out that code yet for the G+K's version. As for the policies, I do think that the start of a game feels a bit constricted - so I'll be adding an additional starter policy to each branch that is unlocked with Despotism, (so another immediately available policy to choose from at the start of the game).

These policies will most likely be tied to boosting the output of ancient era buildings so you can immediately plan whether or not to gain initial production or food/science, etc.

As for the Academy, it'll only seem weak if it's not next to a mountain, (as I kind of need to curtail how much free science is available due to balance issues). When next to a mountain, it generates +5 science, and when chained together, they yield +2 culture each as well, so it's more a matter of placing them efficiently.

I#m playing my second game of the new mod.

All along I made notes of things which doesn't seemed right... here it goes:

1. Monasteries do not have any building requirements (opposed to the tag)
2. Musketeers and Grenadiers use the same icon, confusing the preindustrial battlefield
3. Great Artists have no special abilities at all (culture bomb...)
(in general Great People other than engineer and general seem quiet useless and overpriced)
4. boarder expansion seems flawed: my capitol is rather expanding out of the 3tiles radius than securing the last ocean tiles
(I noticed that the game is very reluctant to expand into the sea (even with recourses) in general

5. rather a wish of my parts: is there a way stopping mili. city states from doling out units to non-allies ? would be very logical
6. an other suggestion: since city-defense and hit-points can be significantly increased even in the early game (far 'outsizing' any unit of its time... I'm talking of large cities)... cities can only be captured with a large artillery-presence, chopping down city-hit-points to the absolute minimum followed by a lone ground-unit-attack. Any use of any force other than artillery would inevitably result in the destruction of a unit in the first attack. Since this seems unintended I would suggest the reduction of city-strength corresponding to its hitpoints. maybe down do 1/3 or 1/4.
7. At last a general thing: I think you should revise your approach to production points and the making of those. Buildings get very costly very fast. While there are many buildings to increase the production of a city there is almost no way around building them as soon as possible. Cities which are founded later in the game struggle the whole time catching up (and never getting there) attributing almost nothing to the nations wealth, culture etc..
Especially Cities with no real production sources are quiet useless.
Maybe you should keep essential building cheaper while adding production points to building which are really making the differences (national)- wonders, military- buildings

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the point above.

1) This'll be fixed in today's update.
2) Also will be fixed - good find though, not sure why I missed this.
3) I'm assuming you mean overpriced when purchasing through faith? I never actually liked this mechanic and find it really cheapens the specialists in relation to their buildings and might yet remove it, not sure though.
4) I believe that this is hardcoded - where the expansion is limited in ways resulting to ocean expansion.
5) Nope.
6) I'll be reducing the amount of free hit points / defense garnered from buildings in the update, as I agree there are too many currently and they can pile up too quickly.
7) I've also found production costs to be a bit too high at the moment and they'll be scaled back in the update, although I also don't really want to encourage limitless city placement on poor terrain, similar to in CIV IV, where certain terrain just wasn't feasible as a city location.

CIV V tries to get away from this by having all terrain essentially the same, with all improvements offering little to no added benefits, and this seems really flawed in my opinion, as it completely takes away from any strategy involving the placing of cities with regards to yield outputs (in favor of creating military chokepoints - but again, Civ isn't a war-game, as much as Firaxis seems to think it is).

PS: Just three buildings from the top of my head which almost lost there original purpose to accommodate the production problem:

Armory: almost no military use on tis own, but a bit overpriced for a production booster in my mind
Stone-Works: overpriced by far. While adding a good amount of production point a city has to build it to get in the circle of cities which are the backbone of the nation.
Stadium: + 15% production... really?

Well, it does produce Iron - so that's something. I didn't want to just have every military building dole out bonus XP which is why this was removed as a building feature for the armory. I agree with you on Stoneworks though, and it's getting its build cost reduced this update. For Stadiums, I can kind of view them as cultural hubs, in that they're usually enveloped by urban housing - hence the building production bonus.

Hi guys, my impression after after some hours (v2 G&K)

1. building cost too high
2. Chose new build impossible after capturing enemy city, i must save and reload
3. espionage it seems to be to high

Agreed on point 1, will be reduced, although not substantially. I haven't figured out what's causing the second bug yet - and I haven't actually done anything with espionage - in what way is it too high? The cost of performing it? Its results?

 

[markusbeutel]

Do you mean in the default version of the game? I haven't found a tile that my great artist can build it on.

They can't, currently - as no great people have any builds available to them at the moment. A personal preference here on my part that many people probably don't agree with, but I found the GP improvements, (apart from very early in the game) to almost always be an inferior option to their main ability - and in that regard they merely represented a superfluous illusion of "choice." A % modifier for the city would scale faaarrrrr better, and I'm not sure why CIV V ever went away from this...

Perhaps it was an early version of NIGHTS, or another mod, but one had each policy tree as a government type, and you could select different policies from different branches to 'compose' your government. I may have a war policy based on monarchy, but enfranchisement based on democracy. Or something like that, something closer to how Beyond the Sword, or perhaps that was just Rise of Mankind, handled policies. It went a long way in immersing me in my country rather than now where beyond picking my starting bonus as a nation I don't feel particularly connected to them.

I liked that system as well, the main problem with it was that it came across as too complicated for many players - especially ones that had never played CIV IV. Ideally I think a combination of Civics from IV and policies from V would be best, where certain policies offset others policies, but at the moment we're limited to branches offsetting branches. (Policies can offset other policies, but only permanently, which just doesn't work in the system I envision, where offsetting/disabling one policy would activate it's alternative).

 

[gazius]

As for the Academy, it'll only seem weak if it's not next to a mountain, (as I kind of need to curtail how much free science is available due to balance issues). When next to a mountain, it generates +5 science, and when chained together, they yield +2 culture each as well, so it's more a matter of placing them efficiently.

I guess both of them need to be next to mountains for it to take effect.

The constabulary lists itself as a requirement in the tooltip.

 

[markusbeutel]

I guess both of them need to be next to mountains for it to take effect.

The constabulary lists itself as a requirement in the tooltip.

You should get the culture regardless of being next to a mountain - as long as 2 academies are adjacent to one another. Nice find on the constabulary - should say police station - will be fixed for today's update.

 

[mezzanine]

please add new GK units like marines, etc and techs to NİGHTS

 

[markusbeutel]

please add new GK units like marines, etc and techs to NİGHTS

Composite Bowman will appear in today's update, but I'm wary of adding additional units - especially in the later eras, as, at least to me, it seems like there's already an overabundance of additional units in these eras in comparison to buildings/wonders.

If people really want to play with the new units, I could swap some of the existing units with new ones - but really, the only thing that changes is the icon art and unit graphics - the new units themselves are pretty much identical to what's already there.

As for techs, again, it'd be tough to squeeze in more techs especially since there's already more techs in the mod than in G+K's as a whole. I could swap existing techs for G+K's techs, but again, this would just represent superficial changes. Are there any units in the game people would want swapped? Units that you never build and would prefer to be replaced with some of the new G+K's units?

Marines I could see, but some of the other units, like world war bombers/tanks and the like - that just feels lazy on Firaxis' part - especially considering that techs in the base game and G+K's don't align at all historically throughout the course of a vanilla game...

 

[markusbeutel]

v3 of Gods and Kings update released to http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=20051 and to the Steam Workshop.

Changes in this re-release:

• Fixed major bug where Happiness buildings weren't always contributing happiness...
• Added Composite Bowman and new early policies immediately available at the start of the game which boost early ancient era buildings.
• Fixed bug where Docks weren't recognizing Crabs.
• Fixed various tool-tips.
• Fixed bug where City-States were gifting advanced units not yet in the Nights tech tree in later eras.

Saves won't carry over, and if you experience any other bugs, both with the Civfanatics version and/or the ModBrowser version, make sure to delete old copies of the mod, and...

IMPORTANT: DOWNLOAD/INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS!
Note that the following locations could differ depending on where you've installed CIV V.

1. Download and copy file into C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS
2. Delete your cache folder in C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\cache
3. Delete the contents of the ModUserData folder in C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\ModUserData
4. Verify your cache and defrag your CIV V files through Steam (right click, properties, local files, verify integrity.

 

[Gorhaax]

Regarding policies, I'd like to see them become intimately tied with a LOT of the bonuses you get, as I see them as defining the traits of a nation. Perhaps it was an early version of NIGHTS, or another mod, but one had each policy tree as a government type, and you could select different policies from different branches to 'compose' your government. I may have a war policy based on monarchy, but enfranchisement based on democracy. Or something like that, something closer to how Beyond the Sword, or perhaps that was just Rise of Mankind, handled policies. It went a long way in immersing me in my country rather than now where beyond picking my starting bonus as a nation I don't feel particularly connected to them.

This type of policy tree is in Community Call of Power and is the best policy tree + government tree system i've seen so far, sorry markus.

 

[gazius]

Have you seen the cultural bonus working? I've got 3 in a row, all next to at least one, usually 2 mountains and I see the mountain bonus but no culture.

I would suggest changing the color of the classical text from black to something else so that you can read it on the tooltip.

 

[markusbeutel]

This type of policy tree is in Community Call of Power and is the best policy tree + government tree system i've seen so far, sorry markus.

Haven't tried it, so couldn't say... Nights had a system in place at one point where each branch was a different government, and certain policies from one branch offset other policies in other branches, but like I said, it felt a little bit too convoluted for newer players.

I'll have to give their system a try, though.

Have you seen the cultural bonus working? I've got 3 in a row, all next to at least one, usually 2 mountains and I see the mountain bonus but no culture.

I would suggest changing the color of the classical text from black to something else so that you can read it on the tooltip.

I know it was working months back when I first implemented it - I'll test it out in my next game - there's the chance that for some reason certain xml tags may no longer be working...

As for the tool-tip text color, I use the vanilla era box on the policy screen to display the various branch names. These boxes actually also include the era names, but I've blacked them out so users don't see them as they disappear into the background. It's a bit of UI trickery I've employed that serves it purpose for the mod - the only downside is that multiple files read from the tooltip connected to those era boxes, so while they disappear into the black background on the policy screen, they're visible, yet slightly hard to make out on other screens such as era notification pop-ups...

 

[Balerune]

I had this and info addict subscribed from Steam Workshop. After clearing and verifying the mod installation screen showed 2 versions of Nights, v2 and v3. If I checked to load either one the game would crash on startup. The manual download from the Civ Fan website seems to work okay.

 

[amirberner]

Hi,
First of all I want to thank you for this great mod, I really like it.
but I have few major bugs:
1. no cultural revolutions- I've built some world wonders but still didn't get the cultural revolution bar or any cultural revolution (and I'm allready at 1500 AD)
2. my military CS ally doesn't give me any units (and I didn't press "stop unit spawning")
3. The game crashes sometimes upon starting it

I guess it is because 1 of 2 things I did
1. I upgraded the patch (in the mods screen) and it turned out to be the G&K mod, so I unsubscribed and subscribed again to the vanilla patch (didn't erase anything)
2. I load nights, IGE and also a true starting locations europe map

So why does it happen? what should I do?

and also, is the mod compatible with any of the true starting locations map mods?
is it compatible with the "yet not another earth maps pack"?
and one last question (for now) is that I saw you were discussing policies and civics. what's the difference? in the game I played I only had 1 kind, the 7 branches of tradition, honour, piety etc.

 

[markusbeutel]

I had this and info addict subscribed from Steam Workshop. After clearing and verifying the mod installation screen showed 2 versions of Nights, v2 and v3. If I checked to load either one the game would crash on startup. The manual download from the Civ Fan website seems to work okay.

Having multiple versions of the mod installed will lead to crashes. Safest thing to do is to manually check your MODS folder and make sure you've deleted and/or moved old versions of the mod to a different location.

Hi,
First of all I want to thank you for this great mod, I really like it.
but I have few major bugs:
1. no cultural revolutions- I've built some world wonders but still didn't get the cultural revolution bar or any cultural revolution (and I'm allready at 1500 AD)
2. my military CS ally doesn't give me any units (and I didn't press "stop unit spawning")
3. The game crashes sometimes upon starting it

I guess it is because 1 of 2 things I did
1. I upgraded the patch (in the mods screen) and it turned out to be the G&K mod, so I unsubscribed and subscribed again to the vanilla patch (didn't erase anything)
2. I load nights, IGE and also a true starting locations europe map

So why does it happen? what should I do?

and also, is the mod compatible with any of the true starting locations map mods?
is it compatible with the "yet not another earth maps pack"?
and one last question (for now) is that I saw you were discussing policies and civics. what's the difference? in the game I played I only had 1 kind, the 7 branches of tradition, honour, piety etc.

Having multiple versions of the mod installed will lead to crashes, so manually check your MODS folder and delete old versions. Then manually clear the contents (ie delete the contents) of your Civ V cache and ModUserData folders, as information from previous mods you've download gets stored here, and if Nights, or any other mod, changes information in the same files, you'll get caching conflicts which will cause bugs like the ones you mentioned involving not getting any revolutions.

Also make sure you're not running ANY other mods besides IGE and InfoAddict. I can't say whether or not any map packs would cause bugs, but I doubt they would. If they are causing bugs, it's because they haven't been updated for patches and/or any additional resources Firaxis introduced, like Stone.

As for policies and civics, I was merely discussing how over the last few years, Nights has had various different systems in place which obviously don't apply to the current iteration.

 

[frigatewhisper]

If I start a game with v2 of the mod, can I successfully continue to play it in v3?

 

[markusbeutel]

If I start a game with v2 of the mod, can I successfully continue to play it in v3?

Possibly, but there will probably be some bugs, (and in some cases you won't even be able to load your previous game). Always a good idea to finish games on the same version to be safe.

 

[Haecceity]

I don't think this really qualifies as a bug, and I don't want to post a whole new thread for it (in case I'm really just messing up the installation procedures like an idiot), so I figure I'll post here.

I can't get the Nights mod to work. I'm not getting any errors or bugs or anything - it's simply not doing anything to the game. The social policies stay the same, the tech tree stays the same, everything is the same. I've tried multiple ways of obtaining the mod. I downloaded the file here, here, which didn't work (which I assume is because I don't actually have G&K). I downloaded the file here, which also didn't work. I also tried to use the regular version (not the G&K version) using the Steam mod browser.

The way I installed the two non-steam versions is by unsubscribing to all of my mods, deleting everything in my mod folder, deleting everything in my cache folder (and twice deleting the cache folder itself, just in case that somehow made a difference), deleting the contents of the moduserdata folder, and then putting the downloaded file into the mods folder, veriyfying the integrity of the local files, opening Civ 5, going to Mods, letting it download and install everything, and then enabling it, and going in game through the Set Up Game screen.

For the steam version, I still deleted everything, but then I went and subscribed, opened the game, went to the mods folder, enabled the mod, and set up game.

Whenever I start the game, nothing happens. It's just a normal game with nothing changed.

What can I do? Am I doing something wrong?

Thank you

Edit: Forgot to mention, I don't have G&K, but I do have the Nebuchadnezzar expansion and the Deluxe version of the game, bought from Steam

Edit 2: >___> I am so sorry. I've never used mods in Civ 5 before. I didn't realize that after hitting next, in order to play the game with the mods, I had to hit the "Single Player" button on the new screen that shows up. I didn't even realize it was a button, I thought the Single Player was just there to show which mods were for single player. Before, I had just been hitting next, then hitting back and going up to the main screen to set up a game, lol.

 

[markusbeutel]

I don't think this really qualifies as a bug, and I don't want to post a whole new thread for it (in case I'm really just messing up the installation procedures like an idiot), so I figure I'll post here.

I can't get the Nights mod to work. I'm not getting any errors or bugs or anything - it's simply not doing anything to the game. The social policies stay the same, the tech tree stays the same, everything is the same. I've tried multiple ways of obtaining the mod. I downloaded the file here, here, which didn't work (which I assume is because I don't actually have G&K). I downloaded the file here, which also didn't work. I also tried to use the regular version (not the G&K version) using the Steam mod browser.

The way I installed the two non-steam versions is by unsubscribing to all of my mods, deleting everything in my mod folder, deleting everything in my cache folder (and twice deleting the cache folder itself, just in case that somehow made a difference), deleting the contents of the moduserdata folder, and then putting the downloaded file into the mods folder, veriyfying the integrity of the local files, opening Civ 5, going to Mods, letting it download and install everything, and then enabling it, and going in game through the Set Up Game screen.

For the steam version, I still deleted everything, but then I went and subscribed, opened the game, went to the mods folder, enabled the mod, and set up game.

Whenever I start the game, nothing happens. It's just a normal game with nothing changed.

What can I do? Am I doing something wrong?

Thank you

Edit: Forgot to mention, I don't have G&K, but I do have the Nebuchadnezzar expansion and the Deluxe version of the game, bought from Steam

Edit 2: >___> I am so sorry. I've never used mods in Civ 5 before. I didn't realize that after hitting next, in order to play the game with the mods, I had to hit the "Single Player" button on the new screen that shows up. I didn't even realize it was a button, I thought the Single Player was just there to show which mods were for single player. Before, I had just been hitting next, then hitting back and going up to the main screen to set up a game, lol.

Glad to hear you got it figured out - it can seem a little non-intuitive at first - especially now that it's on Steam, where you have to subscribe to have the mod download in game. Countless people have had trouble with that.