1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

NiGHTS: General Discussion

Discussion in 'Civilization NiGHTS' started by markusbeutel, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. jebst

    jebst Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    47
    I enjoy longer games. So a start 10.000 BC to outer space ( 2000-4000AC) are the best for me. (This is not the place for this but I use civ5 as medicine. Due to brainbleeding i lost balance part of brain. Only remedy are tiering the bran to forget balance. It works. This is why I log 500 600 hours playing. Used civ4 with mods but found civ5. Only lack support to Modders.) I have to admit I am a pensioned PdD and have used computers since the punchcard era. I greatly admire the Modders here. Please dont stop modding due to arrogance and lack of support from source.
     
  2. Balerune

    Balerune Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    372
    I also generally play to the end time wise and before this patch (which I haven't applied) the last version was generally ending with Future Tech just starting to be researched.

    By the way, on immortal, I had assumed the AI was bad at amphibious landings so I didn't take care to make a navy on a Y shaped continents map (we each had a leg.) Early on I survived a land war, eliminated one AI but when I started a land war thru a neck of land at the other AI they were quite effective at landing en masse and took one of my cities. I didn't have a navy as I was rushing policy buildings to get democracy, which I did, and I thought I had the perfect map this time 'round.:(

    And yes, perhaps they should just release a Civ V "Le Grande" as an add on and stop the patches. They could charge for this and include maps of the ocean bottom and underwater warfare giant death robots, Nemolike machines and other goodies as well as Neptune, The Sirens, underwater monsters, giant chasms of death (as well as a pathway to the center of the earth)and leave the rest of us alone? :mischief:

    But I am only kidding....we all :love: them soooooooooo muchhhhhhhhh ?
     
  3. Oohforf

    Oohforf Praise loud, blame soft.

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    321
    Location:
    In that corrupted Ontario south.
    This wouldn't be bad. At first, I thought that 10,000 BC would be too primitive, but it really isn't.
     
  4. bigstuff777

    bigstuff777 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    74
    have any of you play the mod for civ 4 called realism invictus ? anyways this mod has some great ideas. like Pandemics ...as you raise your citys lvls you get a base pandemic for population and improvements. when a pandemics happens you loose some population and production. and have some buildings and tech give - to pandemics . anyways this is a great way to control growth by era and helps balance the game.

    ...yeah i like long games too but i like all the eras the same if you have ever played realism civ 4 mod ....seems about the best for era length that i have seen.

    i just would like to see a prehistoric era even if it were really short like 50 terns were you have to discover fire and shelter and Cave men ech.
     
  5. Bastian-Bux

    Bastian-Bux Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    795
    Actually using 10,000 BC is a very good start. The end of the last cold period of the current glacial WAS the beginning of our culture. While the modern human did leave Africa already 50,000 years ago, he was forced to Iberia and southern Italy by the "ice age". Similar in eastern asia.

    Current genetics even suggests, that at least some of the phenotypical differences (light skin, google SLC24A5) has happened between 12,000 and 6,000 BC. So there is good reason to assume that the three differeing major phenotypes have also only developed after the end of the last glacial.

    If I'd have to choose a starting point of a mod, I'd go for either 6,000 BC as the date of the most major mutation and selection point that brought into being the caucasian phenotype (which is the youngest of the three major phenotypes). Or 10,000 BC as the end of the last glacial, and thereby the "starting point" for our current inter-glacial culture.

    4,000 BC in my opinion is already fairly late, both from an historical as well as genetical point of view. In 4,000 BC the first spreading of homo sapiens sapiens was already done. It's like saying: the life of a child starts when it enters school. 10,000 BC would be starting with birth, 6,000 BC would be starting with a one year old child, learning to walk and talk.
     
  6. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,976
    Location:
    Vancouver BC Canada
    +1 for an expanded Ancient-Renaissance game. :)

    I'm leaning towards having the game end at the onset of the Industrial Revolution - which would replace Future Tech. When I do expand the Pyramid beyond that, I agree that the modern era should and most likely will be the largest.

    I'm sorry to hear that jebst. I don't think I would take the mod as far back as 10.000 BC, but around 6000 BC is a definate possibility. Part of my reasoning in expanding the early eras, is that I'd like there to be less massive jumps in technology. This would probably have the greatest effect on wars - as older units would be useful for much longer time and there wouldn't be this feeling of having units become antiquated as soon as they are built. Conversely, once you do get later in the game, buildings well feel far more powerful compared to the early-era buildings. Currently in v8.9, you kind of start the game at a run with everything producing in large quantities, I'd like to scale this back and really start pushing for a sense of paced forward momentum.

    I've found that making units obsolete once their successors are available has really helped out the AI as they seem to be able to keep much better pace - and even when they make tactical errors, their units aren't as pathetic as they would have been otherwise.


    I'm leaning towards 6000 BC, with 500-1500/1700 making up the real meat of the game.


    I haven't tried that mod - I'll take a look at it. The Pandemics mechanic would be interesting as long as it's not this continual feeling of impending punishment. Some sort of random event system will probably make it into v9. I think, at the very least, there will be something along the lines of a prehistoric era in v9. :)

    6000 BC is what I'm leaning towards. A prehistoric era would be quite interesting to create as there would be new improvements/yields that fit the times - and hitting certain ancient techs could boost these to normal starting levels. Barbarians could also get a boost during these times for an added sense of adventure/premonition. I've started to look at unit graphics and there may be some custom models in v9 if I can find the time.


    V8.9b released to CivFanatics/Downloads/Modpacks

    v9 is going to take quite awhile to get together, especially since there's another patch on the near horizon - so I've scraped together an updated 8.9b. This update restores functionality to the features that were broken in patch 1.0.1.275 and also adds some things that I was planning on including in v9.


    INSTALLATION

    Delete the entire Civ5 cache folder (not just it's contents).
    C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\cache
    C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\ModUserData
    Place the download in your Mods folder, load Civ V and click the Install button in the Mod Browser.
    C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS


    v8.9b Changelog:

    1. New Specialists each only have one building that can train them.
    2. Specialist Training buildings for each luxury and bonus resource are available in the Ancient era.
    3. Road Maintenance is back, negative road modifiers have been removed.
    4. The Government screen works again.
    5. New Specialist text info has been added to the yields portion of buildings in compliance with the latest patch.
    6. The Tech Pyramid has been slimmed down so more of it is immediately visible, (less scrolling left and right).
    7. The City view now has Specialist and Regular Building headers.
    8. A Slave unit has been added to the game, (produces Unrest, but works +50% faster than a worker unit).
    9. Unit maintenance has been imposed on all units.
    10. Veteran Units/Buildings have been removed, (to make way for a new Guild system coming in v9).
    11. Adopting Despotism doesn't immediately cause Unrest for the amount of Cities you have, (adopting other Governments still does - getting a complete overhaul in v9).
    12. Building Maintenance costs have been increased, gold output from buildings has been decreased, (gold won't be quite as abundant).
    13. Military Unit Strength values have been streamlined - meaning that there aren't complete runaway units anymore, ie longswordsman. Units such as these still have a large strength advantage, but other units now provide a much more viable option when Unrest is factored in.
    14. Some techs/units/buildings have been moved around, (will list later - must sleep now).
    15. Calendar Tech moved to the Classical Era.

    There will most likely be bugs that I've missed - but I wanted to get this version out sooner rather than later as v9 is going to be awhile and the current build just wasn't playable anymore. If anyone sees anything out of the ordinary let me know. I'll keep updating this version (8.9b) until v9 is officially released. This version won't be released to the Mod Browser as it has a different ID from the original v8.9 and I don't want multiple versions floating around when it's very likely that from now on, there will be a steady progression of updates in the vein of 8.9c, 8.9d, etc.

    EDIT: Quick fix released at 3:50am. Grain Harvester was only generating +1 instead of +5 points per turn and the Banana Plantation Worker's text info wasn't updated. Tannery and Colonnade no longer astronomically priced. There may be some buildings that are still cost more/less than they should as the Tech Pyramid has gotten a bit of a shuffle since v8.9.
     
  7. looorg

    looorg Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    119
    Excellent ...

    Despotism - Free Settler ... didn't work. No settler, neither did horseman or worker.
    Is the cost of the Tannery supposed to be 1125? It's more then the Pyramids (1000). It's quite a lot for a building available so early on (yes its on marathon speed).
     
  8. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,976
    Location:
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Confirmed... I'll look into this tomorrow - it appears none of the free unit policies are currently working. These aren't going to be in v9, but still - annoying. I've tested out all the other policies and they are all working properly except for these free unit ones. From what I can see, neither myself nor the dev's have changed anything in the XML regarding these particular policies, so they should be working...

    If I can't find out the reason why and fix them, I'll replace these policies, (later on today), so that a Cultural victory isn't a moot point.

    Thanks for finding this so quickly loorg. :)
     
  9. Oohforf

    Oohforf Praise loud, blame soft.

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    321
    Location:
    In that corrupted Ontario south.
    Markus, have you ever considered recruiting developers and beta testers for NiGHTS? It may be beneficial in the long run. This is just a question.
     
  10. looorg

    looorg Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    119
    Might be for the best. I can hardly imagine a game as of late I didn't start with Despotism->Free Settler. The combination was probably a bit to powerful, atleast at marathon speed.

    I assume other changes are intended such as wonders no longer having specialist "heads". Specialists not acting like settlers. Catapults are back to require 1 iron.

    The only other "odd" thing I found is on the tech pyramid; the little boxes all seem sized for 4 items in them but certain civilizations make that 5 and the 5th item goes outside the box. But that is more of a ui thing and has no effect what so ever on the game.

    It does seem like the game have slowed down quite a bit. Not in actual computer speed but in ages/tech/development kinda speed.

    Have something happened to the AI? They barely seem to settle any lands anymore. 300 turns in, i built 6 towns the once on my island are still at only their capital. Seems they are all running massive gold defecits, both on my continent (egypt and aztec) are running negative gpt. They have bulking armies tho. Nevermind, 420 turns in the aztecs finally create their second city. Egypt a few turns later. I wonder what they did for the first 400ish turns ...
     
  11. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,976
    Location:
    Vancouver BC Canada
    I've managed to fix the big that was preventing the free unit policies from not working - Firaxis had added a line of XML required for this policy to work. The Tech Pyramid is purposefully sized to 4 instead of 5 to reduce clutter/size. I'll fix instances where there are overextended units/buildings for certain Civs. Specialists not settling is also done on purpose - more to comply with changes in v9, but was carried over to v8.9b as well. I haven't touched the AI - unless Firaxis did something to their settling mechanics - I'll look into this. V9 will have a city maintenance system of sorts that will reduce the amount of city spamming and ICS available in v8.9x. Growth was slowed down - this is the biggest reason things seem a little bit slower. To compensate, numerous individual tech costs have been reduced, especially in the Classical Era.

    v8.9c should be uploaded to Civfanatics/Downloads/Modpacks within the next couple of hours.
     
  12. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,976
    Location:
    Vancouver BC Canada
    V8.9c released to CivFanatics/Downloads/Modpacks - http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16650

    • Fixes bug where some units/buildings were being drawn outside of the Tech Boxes.
    • Fixes bug where free units gained through policies weren't appearing on the map.

    INSTALLATION
    Delete the entire Civ5 cache folder (not just it's contents).
    C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\cache
    C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\ModUserData
    Place the download in your Mods folder, load Civ V and click the Install button in the Mod Browser.
    C:\<username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS

    EDIT

    Update on v9

    So I've run into a few snags regarding Stability and how it was going to work in v9. Basically, I've been working away on a system where stability is treated as a yield that could be used up to create units - the catch being if you don't have the requisite amount of stability to build a particular unit, you wouldn't be able to. Think of it like turning Stability into a resource like Iron. In turn, buildings generated this stability instead of your population. So far, I've gotten this to work - the problem here is that the AI can't be programmed to make rational choices. It has enough trouble connecting luxury/bonus resources and adding another element on top of this has really thrown them for a loop. So what this boils down to is that population will remain the driving factor for Stability in v9. There will be some tweaks to the formula, however. I played around with adding city maintenance to new cities to decrease the amount of ICS - but unfortunately the AI also can't handle this mechanic without me giving them ridiculous bonuses, (which I'd like to avoid). Honestly, the best system - despite going against realism, is for cities to generate a set amount of Unrest/Unhappiness upon first being built. The AI has been coded to expand at a set rate - increasing this rate not only makes them settle cities faster, but also grow at an unrealistic pace, (think going from a population of 1-4 in one turn).

    There will probably be a rate of around +5 Unrest for every new city founded in v9. This will be renamed pollution to help a little bit with immersion and will be adjustable based on policies and governments you choose that offer a more environmental route. Also, the happiness panel, (top left corner), is getting a redesign. Happiness from units will no longer be listed as (-1) under the Unrest/Unhappiness column, unrest from Cities will be renamed pollution, and the UI in general will look much more elegant and easy to read. To compensate for this increased level of City Unrest (Pollution), Unit Unrest will be lowered, especially across later eras. Luxury resources will also be boosted to +2 Stability per Luxury with a +1 bonus to all additional instances of that particular Luxury. A new guild system regarding units also plays heavily into how units are built/trained/recruited - but I'll talk more about this later when v9 is closer to completion.
     
  13. Oohforf

    Oohforf Praise loud, blame soft.

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    321
    Location:
    In that corrupted Ontario south.
    What buildings will contribute to pollution? Things such as Granaries, Watermills, etc won't, I'm guessing? While things such as factories (especially in the industrial era), and forges will?
     
  14. Tayran

    Tayran Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    32
    The main issue I think is that there is incentive for expansion. If there is no constant battle for luxury resources then you dont feel the need to declare war against your neighbors to gain these.
    I think this is one of the few aspects where vanilla CIV5 is better. In vanilla I must constantly hunt and conquer luxury resources to get my cities to grow. Conquest and military growth is the key to success.

    In NIGHTS it feels like peace is the key to success. Isolation without building military is what is most beneficial. Its a little sad cause ALL other aspects of the mod are great.

    Is there no way to implement the need for luxury resources? Maybe that certain buildings can only be built if you have certain resources.

    These would be key buildings that are important for growth, science and production. Buildings that are important enough for the player to wage war to obtain.

    At the moment I want to avoid war att all costs cause then I need to build military units which lowers stability. If I really needed luxury resources for my civilization to thrive then I would constantly plot and plan to obtain these instead. Which gives a much more entertaining game IMO!
     
  15. Oohforf

    Oohforf Praise loud, blame soft.

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    321
    Location:
    In that corrupted Ontario south.
    How about you bring back trading posts on other terrain types than plains, but tone down how many of the posts the AI uses. I know that spamming them all over doesn't look appealing at all, but it may be a good way to earn a little bit of money, and urbanize your empire a bit. God, I wish they still had the cottage/village/town system and models from Civ IV, instead of these traveling circuses called trading posts :[

    Anyways, do you have any thing to tell us about the

    's? It sounds really interesting.
     
  16. bigstuff777

    bigstuff777 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    74
    cottages in Civ 4 have all ways been OP cause of the fact that AI do not protect there cottages vary well. they would have other AI civs pillaging them and the player could just reload or use stacks of units to protect the towns. any ways i do not at all think it ever should go back to the cottages. but i do think it would be great if there were like 10 different grafix for the trading posts and change the name to villages and towns hamlets in a random way. all doing the same thing though adding a lil gold each.

    or you could have 7 different improvements like....
    -cottage = 1 production ...this is because people = work.
    -trade post only buildable on roads..= +1 gold
    -hamlets = +1 gold + 1 production buildable some were in the medieval era.
    -villages = +1 production + 1 science buildable some were in the renaissance era
    - towns = +1 production +1 gold +1 science buildable some were in the industrial era
    -metropopulous = +2 production +1 science + 1 gold buildable in the modern era
    -gigalopolis = +2 production +2 science +2 gold + 1 food buildable in the future era
    and to keep down worker buttons have each one obsolete each other with the exception of the trade post.

    and have worker build times vary high on these improvements so that you have to pan things

    for trading posts just add more civics to make it better over the eras

    and i never could figure out why farms are the same in every era too

    farms are for ancient ear to renaissance industrial era should have...mechanized farms + food and + gold
    modern era hydroponic farms +food gold and science
    future era bio domes. +food gold production and science

    anyone who could make this work and balanced in civ 5 would Be the GOD of modding in my book.;)
     
  17. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,976
    Location:
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Pollution will just represent the general amount of negative stability you get for founding a new city. It sounds better and makes more sense than having new cities cause Unhappiness/Unrest. Individual policies will affect how much this increases or decreases to give it more of a dynamic element - and initially, specific buildings won't play a factor as there will be enough new things added in v9 to worry about.

    Resources will play a large role in v9 in everything from buildings to units. Isolation definitely won't be the optimal strategy to take anymore. :)

    Trading Posts will be available to be built everywhere again. This is mainly because I'm going to tweak all Civ's starting plots to be more or less around Grassland and Rivers. (This is being changed largely because these biased starting plots don't really work all that well in NiGHTS where growth is rewarded. Russia shouldn't have to suffer based on nearly always starting near Tundra. :)) Guilds will play an important role in everything from how you develop your cities, to what types of units you can build and what promotions they can get. There are going to be 18 of them in total - 3 for every Government type, (except for Despotism). They will be limited to one per City with 3 instances of each Guild available to be built world-wide.

    Unfortunately, it's not yet possible to add custom graphics for new improvements in CIV V. That being said, there will be quite a few new improvements in v9.
     
  18. Berkeley21

    Berkeley21 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    25
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Now it may be something Ive done wrong on installation (not beyond the realms of possibility!) but are roads working differently?

    They seem to have sprung back to original 1 gold per tile maintainance charge.

    If its not me it may be the patch, not that Im complaining at the speed of the update of the mod.... sterling stuff.


    ps I did have the wit to delete my cache
    **EDIT**
    3 mins later................

    Ignore me I didnt read the change log in detail DOH!

    Still worth recording this is sterling stuff thanks for the hard work
     
  19. ComradeKristov

    ComradeKristov Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Chicago,Il
    Why can't I build mechanized infantry or modern armor? I mean the highest military unit is the tank... I haven't noticed this before because I usually swamp the AI when I get to dynamite. But now I'm actually finished with the tree and wondering where all my modern techs went! Oh, and is there any way to increase the hit points on regular units to 20, I'm tired of my infantry getting worn down by archers it's just super unrealistic and not fun!
     
  20. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,976
    Location:
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Thanks :) - From now on I'll start posting the latest changelogs on the front page of this thread.

    They've been removed from the game for quite awhile now already. What version of the mod are you playing? I only ask because if you have Infantry, the AI really shouldn't have archers as they should have been obsoleted by this time I would have hoped. v9 is actually going to cut back further on modern units as NiGHTS will begin to focus on the ancient-renaissance era's. Infantry, tanks, planes, anti-air/tank, and possibly rifleman/cavalry will be removed from the mod. They will be replaced by over 20 new units more focused on earlier eras. Unique units lost will be replaced with unique buildings/units. I probably won't increase hit points, but I believe it's an easy xml fix if you want to do that on your own.


    NiGHTS UPDATE: 8.9d

    I'll have Denmark added to the mod later on today should it be released. There will be a few changes to Traits as will - as now each Civ will have 1 Major Trait, and 1 Minor Trait. The Major trait is basically and over-powered ability, while the Minor trait is not quite as powerful. This should make each Civ feel a little bit more unique.

    Is anyone planning on buying the Denmark DLC?
     

Share This Page