NiGHTS: General Discussion

[markusbeutel]

Tried the latest build a bit today, AI still runs in the red and dont really properly develop early on. Their lands, I didn't check all but the couple that was close to be had their lands flooded with specialists (doing nothing, as per usual) and a bunch of troops. So they do build buildings but they just dont use the specialists properly. They did use them to settle with previously but since that option is gone they just move them around a bit.

I've added a new improvement for specialists to build on plains/grasslands that should help eliminate them clogging up land.

I play on immortal normal speed not marathon and I find that their gold and development ability seem to depend on the terrain and their starting position. Most games I've had they seem to do well (sometimes gold in hand of >100k); this last game (which I aborted as I didn't want to try for a science victory again) Spain didn't expand, got a settler captured by barbs early on and I don't think they liked the desert, only Rome was in the red, but Ottomans and Iroquois were both running surpluses and had @ 35k gold in hand each.

I only got a good look at Rome and they did have specialists lying around but I think it was worse in earlier versions.

I'll start looking into ways of having the AI spend that money - I know this happens in the base game as well, (AI's not spending excess money), so I'm not terribly concerned as it's not a mod-specific issue.

v8.9e Update:

Nothing major, but on Epic/Marathon modes, the AI starts to build too many of the new specialists without the proper resources required to use them. This doesn't really happen in Standard/Quick game-speeds and I can't really lower values anymore or else the AI won't produce specialists at all at these quicker speeds.

So to alleviate this, all new specialists, (not workers or slaves), can build a new improvement => Towns.

Towns will offer different yields based on the terrain they are built on. Eventually I'll look into the lua and attempt to make them function along the lines of Cottages/Towns/Hamlets, but for now - they will provide static yields like all other improvements. They will also use up the new specialist used to build them, which will greatly reduce the number of AI specialists running around.


Town Specifics:

• They can only be built on Plains/Grasslands -(and all terrain features as long as Plains/Grasslands are underneath).
• They produce +1 Food and +1 Production on Plains/Grasslands.
• They produce +1 Food and +1 Gold on Coastal Plains/Grasslands.
• They produce +1 Gold and +1 Production on Hills that are on Grasslands/Plains.
• All new Specialists can build roads/chop forests/clear marshes => at normal worker speed.
• The act of building the Town itself uses the new specialist up just like with their unique improvements.
• They currently use the Customs House graphic, (best represents a town - although if you build them early they may look a bit too advanced I realize - this may be changed if it starts to look ridiculous from having too many of them).

Overall they're not as good as the unique specialist improvements, but they're initially better than basic farms/mines - and if you ever accidentally build a specialist, they will no longer be entirely useless until you find their specific resource to improve. That being said, they don't get bonuses through policies or techs, so in the long run, regular farms/mines would be a better option to take.

 

[Sinchi Roca]

Hey there,

just wanted to let you know that I really enjoy your mod. It gives Civ V a wonderful kind of depth. I like the modified production and gameplay balance, the new concept regarding social policies and nation traits (vintage-style) etc. All in all, thanks to your mod Civ V now feels totally new - and better than ever!

I'm a classic city-builder and defensive/pacifist player and the new buildings not only make it a thousand times more rewarding to optimize my cities, no, they fit perfectly into the game itself without destroying the balance.

How about adding some new techs? A techtree, a bit more complex and custom. That'd really blow my mind.

Thank you very much and keep up the great work! Civilization NiGHTS is a lot - A LOT - of fun and yet has so much potential!

 

[leeuw01]

Hey, I played you're mod and I like it very much, the specialist and new government system make it a perfect game for me.

Unfortunately I have a strange crash, the loading button is black in the right side of the screen is black and the next turn won't load...

Any way of resolving this problem???

EDIT: The special improvement of the grain specialist hasn't got a graphic.

 

[looorg]

It could be working. I'm seeing alot more developed land in the ai zones now.

That said; shouldn't workers you "capture" from other civilizations/citystates be slaves and not workers?

 

[riddleofsteel]

I've been playing this a little for the past few days as the Vikings. Does this mod make progress i.e. overall development and research much slower? Does it also make barbarians abnormally tough (strength 10 brutes) and does it make all your neighbors peevish right from the get go? Or is it the newest patch from Firaxis I'm seeing the effects of?

 

[markusbeutel]

I've been playing this a little for the past few days as the Vikings. Does this mod make progress i.e. overall development and research much slower? Does it also make barbarians abnormally tough (strength 10 brutes) and does it make all your neighbors peevish right from the get go? Or is it the newest patch from Firaxis I'm seeing the effects of?

Yes, yes - and no. If the AI seems more erratic, that's the patch at work. Early research will also be affected largely on the unique palace stats of your chosen Civ.

 

[Fruscainte]

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/5453/howdi.png

How the hell do I scroll through this thing? There is no bar or anything.

 

[markusbeutel]

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/5453/howdi.png

How the hell do I scroll through this thing? There is no bar or anything.

First of all, make sure your game is up to date with the Steam updates. Then delete old versions of the mod, delete your cache and moduserdata, and verify your cache on Steam. This should solve the problem - as there is/should be a scroll bar on the bottom of that screen. Also, disable other active mods, especially if they mod techs in any way.

 

[Fruscainte]

First of all, make sure your game is up to date with the Steam updates. Then delete old versions of the mod, delete your cache and moduserdata, and verify your cache on Steam. This should solve the problem - as there is/should be a scroll bar on the bottom of that screen. Also, disable other active mods, especially if they mod techs in any way.

Speaking of that, are mods such as Tall Empire and City State Diplomacy compatible with your mod?

 

[markusbeutel]

Speaking of that, are mods such as Tall Empire and City State Diplomacy compatible with your mod?

Tall empire is not - but you shouldn't have any trouble building a tall empire in NiGHTS with the extra improvements/buildings/policies.

City state diplomacy is compatible and works great.

 

[Fruscainte]

Tall empire is not - but you shouldn't have any trouble building a tall empire in NiGHTS with the extra improvements/buildings/policies.

City state diplomacy is compatible and works great.

Tall Empire is not to make me build a tall empire, but the AI. It stops AI ICS and makes them focus more on small, industrialized nations instead of putting down 4 extra cities for one resource of wheat.

 

[markusbeutel]

Tall Empire is not to make me build a tall empire, but the AI. It stops AI ICS and makes them focus more on small, industrialized nations instead of putting down 4 extra cities for one resource of wheat.

Ahh - Okay, well I've also made it so that at specific population intervals, each city gets bonus food/gold/population - think of cities themselves acting like cottages in CIV IV that grow over time. This forces the AI's cities to grow even when they try for an ics strategy.

 

[Fruscainte]

I've done everything you have said, and still getting no bar.

raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

 

[riddleofsteel]

Yes, yes - and no. If the AI seems more erratic, that's the patch at work. Early research will also be affected largely on the unique palace stats of your chosen Civ.

I see. I can handle the tougher barbs with despot tree choices, though I don't know if those choices hamstring me elsewhere. I can deal with the slower pace also, the only thing I can't control is the fickle and un-cooperative AI. Thanks for the reply. I'm having fun as the Polynesians, every new civ they release as dlc makes me wish there was FAR more unique unit and building art.

 

[markusbeutel]

Hey there,

just wanted to let you know that I really enjoy your mod. It gives Civ V a wonderful kind of depth. I like the modified production and gameplay balance, the new concept regarding social policies and nation traits (vintage-style) etc. All in all, thanks to your mod Civ V now feels totally new - and better than ever!

I'm a classic city-builder and defensive/pacifist player and the new buildings not only make it a thousand times more rewarding to optimize my cities, no, they fit perfectly into the game itself without destroying the balance.

How about adding some new techs? A techtree, a bit more complex and custom. That'd really blow my mind.

Thank you very much and keep up the great work! Civilization NiGHTS is a lot - A LOT - of fun and yet has so much potential!

Glad to hear you're enjoying it. The next major update will have quite a few new techs, but they'll be replacing techs currently in the game. I do plan on doing some things with techs that will add a bit more variety and complexity, but this will come only after the next major update.

Hey, I played you're mod and I like it very much, the specialist and new government system make it a perfect game for me.

Unfortunately I have a strange crash, the loading button is black in the right side of the screen is black and the next turn won't load...

Any way of resolving this problem???

EDIT: The special improvement of the grain specialist hasn't got a graphic.

Hmm - did you activate any mods just before this started happening? Do you have any earlier saves or autosaves to go with? I won't be at my desktop for the next few days and I'm typing this from my phone so I can't look at your save just yet, but I will.
Try verifying deleting your cache folder and then verifying your cache on Steam. Also make sure your game is up do date. I haven't heard of this bug come up before so I'm afraid I can't get you more info than that until I actually load up your save.

It could be working. I'm seeing alot more developed land in the ai zones now. That said; shouldn't workers you "capture" from other civilizations/citystates be slaves and not workers?

That's good to hear. I thought about having workers turn into slaves - the problem with this is that if you're not prepared for the Stability cost of gaining a slave, (+2), this could feel like more of a detriment than a bonus and I don't want that either. Perhaps I could make a new unit that falls somewhere in between workers and slaves in terms of work rate and abilities a la the Indentured servants from Colonization.

I've done everything you have said, and still getting no bar.

raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

That's definitely frustrating. Did prior versions of the mod work for you? The only other thing I can think of doing, is a defrag of your CIV files through Steam.

I see. I can handle the tougher barbs with despot tree choices, though I don't know if those choices hamstring me elsewhere. I can deal with the slower pace also, the only thing I can't control is the fickle and un-cooperative AI. Thanks for the reply. I'm having fun as the Polynesians, every new civ they release as dlc makes me wish there was FAR more unique unit and building art.

With no unique starting abilities tied to Barbarians, I thought I'd give them a boost in strength so that they wouldn't always be a cakewalk like in the base game. Research has been slowed for a couple of reasons; there's less techs overall, but at the same time there's more buildings and units - and because of this I wanted the mod to have more time for building/warring instead of just racing through techs for the latest, greatest military units available

The AI has actually been slightly tweaked to be less aggressive than in vanilla CIV V in accordance with the number diplomacy modifiers listed. I've lowered the AI's opinion weight of numerous wrongdoings you as the player can commit and actually added some that improve your relations with the AI, (being friendly with the same City-States for example). The latest patch seems to have increased the back-stab modifier for most CIV's which has made them seem more erratic than normal. I'll probably look into this in the near future to find some sort of proper balance. That being said, the next patch supposedly deals with the AI and I'll wait at least until that's released before I initiate any changes.

 

[albie_123]

You said city state diplomacy was compatible with this mod - are there any other mods you can reccomend to use along with it?

 

[looorg]

That's good to hear. I thought about having workers turn into slaves - the problem with this is that if you're not prepared for the Stability cost of gaining a slave, (+2), this could feel like more of a detriment than a bonus and I don't want that either. Perhaps I could make a new unit that falls somewhere in between workers and slaves in terms of work rate and abilities a la the Indentured servants from Colonization.

On the other hand it is an active choice to take them, so you should be aware of the risks involved. It's not like they just drop in your lap for no reason at all. Plus you can if it catches you by surprise just kill it the same or the next turn if it turns out it didn't work out like you wanted it to.

As it is now there is barely any drawback to taking them at all.

 

[markusbeutel]

You said city state diplomacy was compatible with this mod - are there any other mods you can reccomend to use along with it?

InfoAddict

 

[Balerune]

I'm not exactly sure how to approach this. I have a game with good natural defenses for my civ, 2 choke points against both contiguous AI. I played this game differently than I usually do, Arabia, immortal, sparse resources and went for wonders. (I trashed 2 games as I lost the race for the first or second wonder.)

With the state of AI intelligence I had Rome afraid of me (Rome wimpy?), early on, as when they war they are not tenacious. In my other games and with other patches Siam was the worst as far as just doggedly hanging on to a war they started – which was annoying and ruined my game but I hate to say, yes I want to win, but we all know people who just won't let go no matter what.

I attributed my success in this game to 2 things, position and the building of wonders. The AI appreciate the wonders and the gp and the advantages (as when I captured and Egyptian capital with 6 wonders) make the late game (I like accumulating gold as I use it to buy replacement war units) much easier …. perhaps, and this is just a suggestion, the wonders are a bit too powerful but on the other hand you are going to expand the early stages – but the AI loves to build wonders and if you capture a capital city you get some powerful advantages. But they still (I checked all over the map) overbuild specialists.

All this being said I get my chance for a domination or points win that has always eluded me on immortal. I'm top @ 1700 to 1300 and much advanced in tech. @ 1950(and I might not complete the game as it isn't the winning that is fun for me but the progress of getting there. But I do remember one civ4 game I had; 2 continents, I had one in hand, well ahead in points and a small Mongolia on another. Late sudden surge and the Mongols did what they did in history: ravaged thru the continent they were on destroying all the cities they captured. I had to prepare a force to deal with them to eek out a win.)

With city states you can liberate them (and I assume they are grateful.) Irrc in civ 4 you could “liberate” a regular AI city, and you could have vassals and all that. I re-captured a Spanish city from France but there was no option to liberate. The depth I was looking for is the idea that I will help you in your war with X in return for your co-operation in the future – we form an alliance (with the background being that if this alliance is broken then there would be world disapproval (denunciation by other AI and the threat of future wars etc.)

But I like that they don't seem to back stab but there could always be one civ that has this as a characteristic.

All in all just a report from the front.

 

[looorg]

You said city state diplomacy was compatible with this mod - are there any other mods you can reccomend to use along with it?

I don't know if Markus would want to recommend them but I know of a few minor modifications that work fine. I use them on and off to "enhance" the game even further;

AggressiveCityStates (v 3)
AiRealistic (v 1)
BarbaricBarbarians (v 1)
CombatModifierRebalance (v 3)
No XP Cap from Barbarians (v 1)


BTW totally unrelated but isn't the riding pasture and the archery range gone? There are still district policies under feudalism that use them or is that in name only?

Also I just found the "resource list" in the info panel/menu, shouldn't it say I have for example 12 iron and 6 used instead of 6 iron 6 used? (I do have 12 but have used 6).