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NiGHTS: General Discussion

Discussion in 'Civilization NiGHTS' started by markusbeutel, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. Micate

    Micate Chieftain

    Joined:
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    First off, even as weak as they are, I get lots of value from naval units (mostly because they go unchallenged, and if I can get them to +range picking off random units/avoiding cities, then I can join in the city siege as well). That said, they are on the farthest edge of the pyramid, making the techs a little less versatile (since fewer techs require them as prereqs), so a little upgrade might be acceptable.

    Bonus upgrade really should also give a bonus to buy units also.
    As for other abilities being too powerful, I like powerful for special traits, so instead of thinking of reducing some, I think we should look at how to improve the others to match their power.

    The biggest comment I agree with is AI diplomacy when it comes to war. I devastated my opponent's army, took 3 of his cities, and he still demanded I give him half of everything I own in order to 'buy' peace. After taking out almost all of their cities, I finally allowed them to have peace for nothing (which disappointed me, since they ought to have given me everything they own), mostly because I wanted them to build more cities for me to puppet (I was trying out a cultural game, and puppets are a great way to gain free culture without impairing the policy upgrade costs). Even after that, they still call my demands ridiculous, and tell me I don't have the army to back up my threats.
     
  2. ShadowTek

    ShadowTek Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
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    Wow, this mod looks awsome (late to the party) I love the idea of building err.. buildings on resources, that help them, what a great idea!!! I cant wait to try this out! Ill probably wait til v9 is out.

    Question, can we use Thals rebalance mod with this, or should we only use this one? Also can we use scenarios this a earth scenarion with this? As I only like to play on earth maps? Thanks for clearly all the hard work you put into this!

    One more thing, any chance you can make a list of mods that you know do work with this mod? Like REDs army size mod etc..

    Thanks again!
     
  3. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

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    Something like this would be nice - unfortunately it's again something that will have to wait for dll access. :)

    All of the Victory types are getting an overhaul in v9 - they should prove to be more enjoyable and equally viable, (I hope). :crazyeye:

    The AI is simply bad - there's no other way to put it. It has gotten better, but it still needs a lot of work. I haven't looked into altering it in regards to tactics or war as this is something that Firaxis is sure to keep working on and improving. Also, the start defense is different for each Civ in the game - so there should be some Civ's that are naturally weaker and easier to take over in the early ages.

    Naval units, (and buildings for that matter), are getting a fairly large overhaul in v9 in everything from strength to their overall number and at which Tech's they can be obtained. Changing HP values would be interesting - but it would take some re-balancing of most units and buildings. NiGHTS in general focuses more on the builder side of things, (although v9 will be adding a lot to the military side of the coin as well), and I fear that drawing battles out so they're even longer in length would result in some ridiculous wars spanning most of the game - mainly because the AI recognizes that loss of units = losing and if this doesn't happen at a fairly frequent pace, gameplay will probably slow to a crawl.


    I agree that resources need work in NiGHTS and they're getting it in v9. I've thought about treating bonus/luxury resources like strategic resources, (this is possible), but again - it's something that the AI wouldn't understand - and they seem to have enough trouble building improvements to begin with, (after I've maxed out each Civ's tile improvement stats to boot).

    I've never really thought about the usefulness of certain traits at different game speeds and I'm glad you brought that up. I'll attempt to balance these better in v9 as some are currently more powerful than others, (Bonus Upgrade particularly). I do agree with Micate, in general, that traits should be more on the overpowered as opposed to the underpowered side. There will also be a change coming to how resources boost the speed of Wonder construction. Currently Marble accounts for a +25% boost - this will be removed and switched with Gold + Silver each boosting Wonder production by a specific amount - (probably 5% and 10%).


    Almost every building in currently in the game is going to be changed in some shape or form. Military buildings in particular will function much differently. Currently most of them either boost production or grant XP - in v9, these buildings will grant specific traits and promotions, (and will also be more difficult to build with specific requirements needed). Embarkation will also work differently in v9 in that you will have to build a Harbor in a City to embark units as opposed to researching a specific tech.

    The tsunami will also be either altered to be not as punishing, or removed altogether. Thanks for the feedback.

    Naval units will play a far greater role in v9 - and will actually comprise some of the strongest units in the game. (The strongest unit in the game will actually end up being the Ironclad at the onset of the Industrial Revolution).

    As for the AI and how they end wars - this seems to be a work in progress on Firaxis' part. At least the AI no longer rage-quits to the extent that they did during the first few months of CIV V's release. :)

    Thals re-balance mod wouldn't really work with NiGHTS as there are just too many custom buildings and features that Thal's mod doesn't address. I haven't tested NiGHTS with maps or scenario's so you're guess is as good as mine here. :) RED currently works with NiGHTS as far as I know. I'd also recommend InfoAddict and City-State Diplomacy as confirmed working mod components.
     
  4. Karantaner

    Karantaner Chieftain

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    one proposal for the future concerning resources: I would like to see a greater imporatance of electricity. the modern world is dependent on electricity and perhaps this could also be reflected in your mod: a power station (coal, water, solar, nuclear) could not only give a bonus to the production of the city but also produces e.g. 5 "electricity resources" and all modern buildings require 1 (or even more) electricity resource to be built.
     
  5. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

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    I like this. Once I get the Industrial/Modern ages up and running, I can see myself doing something along these lines. :)
     
  6. looorg

    looorg Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
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    Insula is supposed to grant +2 prod on oasis according to the tooltip. I'm getting +1 instead.
     
  7. ComradeKristov

    ComradeKristov Chieftain

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    Chicago,Il
    I've been toying around with giving all siege weapons indirect fire promotion, so they act like siee units no matter the terrain around the target. I think this makes more sense than increasing the strength of siege units like you have. Also I hope you can penalize archer units and siege units from attacking naval units. Are you going to increase the power of great specialist improvements? The manufactory is weaker than a blast furnace, now thats not fair! Oh and can you fix it so workers don't overwrite specialist improvements, because I don't like to micro my workers but I have to if I build any specialist improvements.
    And how long do you think it will be until we get to play V9?
     
  8. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

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    It was +2 but was changed for v9 and this xml seeped into v8.9. I've since changed the tool-tip to read +1. Nice find. :)

    A nice suggestion about the Archer units vs Naval units - Naval units themselves will represent some of the strongest units in v9 with the Ironclad actually being the strongest unit.

    GP improvements will be getting a bump pretty soon, (before v9 is released). I forgot to adjust their values for the increased yields of certain specialist improvements. Unfortunately, until I get dll access specialists will continue to overwrite custom improvements. V9 will limit this to some extent as the three unit system, (traders/farmers/miners) will have a very large range of improvements at their disposal, and if their improvements are overwritten, they won't be as annoying to replace.

    As of right now, the earliest release of v9 is probably 2-3 weeks from now - but I'll update everyone if it's taking less/more time.


    V8.9h Released to: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16650

    Changelog:
    • Organized Trait switched from a discount on the upgrade cost of units, to a production bonus for buildings that are already in your Capital, (+50% for the Major Trait, +25% for the Minor Trait).
    • Various tool-tip fixes, (Insula and a dozen or so others).
    • Courthouses again remove additional Unrest from occupied Cities, (like in Vanilla) - note that as a result of this change, overall Stability will probably be much higher with this update. The change is more or less due to Courthouses retaining this ability in v9.
    • Purchase costs of all buildings increased 15-50%.
     
  9. black213

    black213 Chieftain

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    markus, could you tell me any reason why to build a building that removes culture from your city? I never build them because I don't want my social policies to come too late.
    I never found the point of using them.
     
  10. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

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    Hmm - I guess I see those few buildings that cause that effect to be more or less optional buildings that are really only meant to built when you're in a bind. The Jail, for example, provides a quick boost to Stability and could be very useful if you're in a bind later on in the game when units are in the 5-10 range.

    The percentages may be a little bit too high, but this will be less of an issue once I release v9, (as the Utopia Project won't require a Policy Branch to be completely unlocked), so Policies themselves, while still very helpful, won't directly lead to one of the Victory types.

    Conversely, a building like the Jail could just be built for a quick fix to Stability, and then sold off to regain your Cities culture abilities once you've got your Unit Unrest under control.
     
  11. Cross Cowboy

    Cross Cowboy Chieftain

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    Im confused on why you said Ironclad will be on of the strongest naval vessels. Are you meaning for its age? Not the entirety of the game correct?

    I like the idea of gold and silver helping to wonders, but removing marble i would rethink. Prolly more appropriate would be to look at each wonder(I know, this might be alot of work) and perhaps put something on a tag on it for the wonders special resource needed to construct. If you have it, +5% to +10% bonus. This way, you keep a historical bent on them. Would also make some resources more valuable as you progress, while in the earlier years, marble and gold would prolly rule. Too bad there isnt a "stone" resource as well, because this could be used again in the early years as well. Just my .2cents.
     
  12. Karantaner

    Karantaner Chieftain

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    Markus, one question: when you adopt a policy whre is the additional culture shown? I am asking because I adopted the bakery policy of the monarchy district but the bakery buildings in my cities do not show +3 culture. This +3 culture is for each bakery, isn't it or is it just +3 for your empire?

    one very odd thing happend, but I'm not sure if this is mod related or a general fault of CIV 5: I defeated Montezuma, he was dead, real dead but 2 tiles still had his colour and belonged to him. This was very annyoing but they didn't go away. Then I got a great artist and I dropped a cultural bomb to get rid of them. One the very, very strange part: Montezuma (the DEAD one) showed up and decleard war on me!! although he was elimated from the game long ago!

    In my last three games a had the same problem: a elimated one AI but some tiles still belonged to it although it has been defeated. Never saw this in vanila CIV, but this also could be a coincidence.
     
  13. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

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    Resources will get some tinkering as far as their contribution towards later-era Wonders but this is awhile aways still. Gold and Silver, for now, will play the only role here in this regard. I like your idea of having era-specific bonuses for resources when they're discovered, though.

    V9 will extend all era's leading up to the Industrial Era - and the Industrial Era/Modern Era will make a reappearance in an extension of the Tech Pyramid in future updates. In V9, the Ironclad will be the most advanced unit currently in the game, along with Cannons, (which will be the only gunpowder unit available).


    The bonus to culture will just show up in the top bar where it tracks overall culture. This is how that particular policy has been coded - and it is for each bakery, (or applicable unit), in your empire, not just a lump sum +3. It's fairly powerful and can quickly add up for larger empires.

    I've noticed that bug in Vanilla where tiles don't fully lose their allegiance. It's an annoying bug that I had hoped would be fixed by now. :rolleyes:
     
  14. IvanGnida

    IvanGnida Chieftain

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    Not sure if this is a bug or your intention, Marcus: in the last update version gold mine gives 4 hammers 4 gold and silver mine 4 hammers 2 gold (with slum district mine upgrade). Also when you capture a city a small portion of city territory remains under control of the previous owner (usually 1 tile) even if this owner does not exist any longer. You cant work this tile and it remains this way till the end of the game. As for specialists I think their cost should not be increased with every new trained one. After all they are not great people - rather workers.
     
  15. markusbeutel

    markusbeutel NiGHTS

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    Hmm - have you deleted your cache and the contents of the ModUserData folder before installing the latest update? That should solve these problems - along with a complete uninstall and re-install of NiGHTS. I agree with you about the workers, in v9 the counter will not go up but remain at 100 throughout the game.

    On that note - V9 has gone through a bit of a re-imagination of sorts. It was originally my plan to release an expanded early-era's version of NiGHTS and then re-implement an expanded industrial/modern era expansion. This is all going to be happening at the same time now.

    What this means is that V9 will remain in development longer, (probably post-patch), but in the end will have a ridiculous amount of new content. All in total, the mod will have in excess of 110 Techs instead of the current 50+, (along with a large amount of new units/buildings/features). The Pyramid structure will also be getting some tweaks in that I'm developing a system where it will have branching paths/dead ends - and certain techs will have either/or prerequisites. I'll start releasing some screen shots over the next couple of weeks.
     
  16. Karantaner

    Karantaner Chieftain

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    I'm glad that you will now publish a "whole" V9 with all the era's.

    Will your V9 stay compatible with the City State Diplomacy MOD? Or perhaps you even have the intention the incorporate it into or MOD.

    I really do hope that Firaxis/2K will activate the possibility to play MODs in MP. The vanila game is just boring and none of my friends wants to play CIV vanila anymore (myself included!). But I guess I can motivate once again after they tried your MOD... Therefore: keep up your excellent work! I would love to support you, but I do not have any required skills - I just can play and give you my humble feedback.
     
  17. Karantaner

    Karantaner Chieftain

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    Does anybody else have problems with downloading the latest version from the civfanatics download section? I couldn't finish a download since 2 days...
    And the latest version on modbuddy is 8.9g.
    @Markus: will you upload your latest version 8.9g on modbuddy as well? that would be great!
     
  18. Tayran

    Tayran Chieftain

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    Great! Take your time.
     
  19. Canabrava

    Canabrava Chieftain

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    There are problems with terrotories. I destroy a civilization but some plots remains.
     
  20. Panda_Power

    Panda_Power Chieftain

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    V9 sounds like it's going to be awesome!

    I didn't play Civ 5 for a while and then came back to it using this mod and the CSD mod and the games I'm having now are really fun! I really admire the work you've put into this and the fact that you've kept up with it while others have gone neglected.

    It's really appreciated!:)
     

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