Nike Claims "Right To Deceive Consumers" Under 1st Amendment

Correct me if Im wrong but isnt deception for the purpose of gain an acceptable definition of fraud and isnt fraud an offence?
 
This would be lovley would it not. They could start add with no control over if it was true or not. "oh, we said it would work for 10 years - but broke down after 2 days. Well we only wanted you to feel good about the buy. Like when I friend say you look good in a dress, NO difference at all." <-- Belive this is what they trying to pull.
 
Now that’s just bizarre. I don’t even know what to say to that… It looks like a joke, but sadly its not…
 
Hmm, nice logic they have there. :rolleyes:

Then does the right of self-defense give me the right to burn their factories? ;)
 
Their argument sounds pretty weak, and I highly doubt that they are going to win.

I know very little about US law, but I'm sure that the American constitution basically provides a definition of who the rights are geard to protect. At least that's the way it is in Canada, where persons and companies are considered to be different entities and the CHarter of Rights and freedoms is geared to the protection of persons.

To recognise corporations as equivalent to persons is a very dangerous precedent to set, and I'm certain that the US Supreme court justices would be quite reluctant to open such a can of worms if they can avoid it.

COuple this with the fact that America is in a rough spot and does not need to see their reputaion (and by reputation I am by no means implying that it is a truth, just reputation) as exploiters of poorer nations enhanced.

I'll have to somehow remove that ugly swirl from my Sunderland AFC shirt!
 
It’s an interesting matter indeed, but, to me, Nike’s argument holds no water. It’s just an intellectual exercise that tries to confuse people and make them think we are talking about one thing when we are in fact talking about other.

About corporations being “persons” or not, well, I guess my opinion is very influenced by the legal perspective in my nation, and thus, may not be the most accurate to evaluate the matter when regarding USA’s internal perspective.

Nonetheless, to us Brazilians, there are two kinds of “person”. The “natural” person – meaning the ones that are human – and the “legal” person – any not-human kind of entity that has the capacity to posses rights and to assume obligations.

Understanding corporations as having personality is crucial in my understanding, because we have to grant them basic rights, like the right to exist, and the right to have property, etc… If we say that those rights are not inherent – that, like some of the counter-argumentation suggests, they have only given prerogatives – we will be walking in a very thin line where the government may exercise interference in private property, under the argument that it has only the rights it decides to give.

Also, the notion of the personality of companies is essential in modern commercial laws. See, in the past, when a company bankrupted, the owner would loose everything he owned, down to his underpants. It scared investments quite a lot. Then came the idea that someone could create an accessory personality – the company, for example – provide it with some money, and that new personality is the one that would be responsible for debts, down to the exact amount of money it owned in itself (as long as there is no fraud).

So, I’d say that Nike Corporation IS a person. But does that mean that I agree with Nike? Well, to a certain extent. But I would not fall for their argument here.

See, I do agree that Nike has the right to voice have an opinion, and to voice that opinion as it see fit. But, unlike what they are trying to make it look, we are not talking about the right to voice opinions; we are talking about them making their sales’ pitch.

See, if Nike wants to publish a “Nike Magazine”, where they defend, for example, that hiring children in 3rd world countries is in fact a act of compassion, , I am the first one to defend their right to do so. Agreeing with them or not, they are entitled to express themselves, just like white supremacists or doomsday prophets. And, just like them, their penalties will be social, like the antipathy of society.

When we talk about sales’ pitch, on the other hand, we are talking about something more; we are talking about the proposition of a contract. Now, as the higher purpose of law is to grant fairness in human relations (particularly in commercial relations, when the parts are not in equal conditions – the huge financial advantage of corporations is a threat to the contractual equilibrium), some regulation is mandatory. So, it’s the role of the state to guarantee that they will not use their power to deceive the consumers.

And there lies the difference that Nike is failing to see; the right of speech does not equal the ABUSE of the right to speech. And by using a unilateral repartee that reaches arbitrarily the ears of people, of which many of them may very well not have the capacity and/or malice to filter what’s the truth, or likely truth, they are ABUSING, their right, using it to hurt the right that people posses of knowing exactly what they are buying.

See, your right finishes in the minute it hurts the rights of the other. Nike cannot hurt the rights of the consumers by hiding in rights of their own.

That said, I really hope that the supreme court will take the case and crush that one more silly attempt to take advantage of the wording of a certain law to abuse from other people.

Shame on Nike.

Regards :).
 
When you consider past leaders of democratic nations, whose dirty tactics forever branded them as crooks, were put under such public scrutiny yet still manage to get elected you really have to wonder about those corporate leaders. I'm not saying they're all ugly underneath, but I'm more than certain that a significant number are. But of course, we rarely hear of such trife unless we go in search of it.

Why do they need to go to court anyhow? Most advertisers are shrewdly clever enough at deceiving their audiences without breaking any laws.

I really like peri's take on this. :goodjob:
 
I would rather think that both the plaintiff and Nike are engaged in a publicity stunt.

I doubt a first year law student would give this serious thought.

1. Constitutional law clearly relates to both person and society.
2. A corporation is a legal "entity" not a legal "person".

The two definitions are not wholly interchangeable.

Eventhough in contract law, the word person is often defined to mean any or all of person(s), entity, association, organization, etc., both criminal, and constitutional law supercedes contract law.

In other words, the contractual definition of a person between two parties can never redefine the meaning of person vs. entity in either the criminal code, or the constitution.

Judicial activism has its limits, and even the most "active" judges are bound to interpret constitutional law in the context in which the fathers intended.

Further, the freedom to free speech is not freedom to propogate lies.

For example:

1. If A says B did something bad, and it were not true, B can legitimately sue A for defamation and recover damages. Freedom of Speech does not protect A, because A lied.

2. However, in the absence of malicious intent, B can not win a defamation suit if what A said were true. Freedom of Speech protects truth.

If Nike lied, they are not protected. Just as no other "person" is protected via freedom of speech when committing fraud, defamation, etc.

At least that is how it was once explained to me. :)
 
It's simple in my mind; it's a consumer protection/disclosure before contract issue.

Nike lost sales because of its policies. In an attempt to restore sales. Ergo, it may have the freedom to lie, but it does not have the freedom to do what it did in this case, namely, the freedom to make an untrue sales proposition.

R.III
 
So, if Nike is not allowed to lie in its press releases, does that mean they're obligated to always tell the truth.

Wouldn't that logic entail that every word in Nike's press releases is the truth and we can trust everything they say, or they're habitually breaking the law?
 
The argument, as far as I see it, is not whether they have the right to lie [or make mistakes, take your pick], but whether they have IMMUNITY FROM THE LAW when they do so because Nike is a "person". My take on it is no; libel is a crime, fraud is a crime. So, nobody is stopping them from lying, but if someone catches them in a lie, as the plaintiff did, then they DO have to pay the consequences.
 
Originally posted by Greadius
So, if Nike is not allowed to lie in its press releases, does that mean they're obligated to always tell the truth.

Wouldn't that logic entail that every word in Nike's press releases is the truth and we can trust everything they say, or they're habitually breaking the law?

No, it just means that if and when their eventual lies hurt someone, they cannot expect to get away from eventual litigation/punishment by arguing that they were only exercizing their rights.

regards :).
 
Does Nike WANT their reputation tarnished? This is just crazy, it will probably be unaminous against Nike. There is a HUGE difference between free speech and lying. Free speech usually applies to politics and arguing about government, not about sweatshops and public relations. :rolleyes:

*adds nike to list of evil companies* ;)
 
This is old news but I suppose it's good to keep it in on the radar.
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Nike should be ashamed of themselves... OTOH, most people aren't aware that shoes actually undergo a manufacture process before magically appearing on the shelves. When it comes to the awareness process of the average shoe consumer, activists might as well be p!ssing in the wind.
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As a personal note: New Balance shoes are made in America. I'm wearing New Balance. It's not just because they're American-made, it's because they're good shoes. I almost got another brand that was comparable in quality -- but was made in China.

For what it was worth... I voted with my dollar.
 
Originally posted by ejday

Nike should be ashamed of themselves... OTOH, most people aren't aware that shoes actually undergo a manufacture process before magically appearing on the shelves. When it comes to the awareness process of the average shoe consumer, activists might as well be p!ssing in the wind.

Good point. Just stop and think about Nikes. They cost about $50-100+ to buy. They probably cost about $5-10 to make. And the sweatshop workers who make them probably make about $1 an hour, or less. How can that NOT make you angry? :mad:

i bet the activists wore nikes..."but they are comfortable!"
 
OMG everyone?! what is that falling into the gutter at unbelievable speeds?!.........................





oh it's Nike's PR
 
"As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless."

-Abraham Lincoln
 
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