No Copper, No Iron, No More Mr. Nice Max

Gwynnja · Dec 15, 2010

plasmacannon said:
1st off, I am with the "I don't like starting without metal" group.

Next.
I guess this is an advantage of playing China.
Your UU is crossbowman based, ie resourceless, and the chariot/axe/sword rush is still available to you, when, you have the appropiate resourse to conduct them.
Warrior and archer rushes being available to all fairly early.

Crossbows and Chokonus require iron.

Peregrine · Dec 15, 2010

If I'm without metal or horses, I'll build cats and longbows with the Vassalage + barracks and give half of them the drill I + Cover, and the other half drill I + Shock. Those that survive to get promotions get the Cover or Shock that they didn't have. I always attempt to commit the right longbows to the appropriate target unit. As more receive the double promo of Cover + Shock, it becomes easier.

Dr.Null · Dec 16, 2010

Peregrine said:
If I'm without metal or horses, I'll build cats and longbows with the Vassalage + barracks and give half of them the drill I + Cover, and the other half drill I + Shock. Those that survive to get promotions get the Cover or Shock that they didn't have. I always attempt to commit the right longbows to the appropriate target unit. As more receive the double promo of Cover + Shock, it becomes easier.

If you went up the Combat line instead, you'd get +30% vs. everything with your 3rd promotion, rather than having +25% vs. only two kinds of things.

ywhtptgtfo · Dec 16, 2010

+35% on two kinds of things.

Dr.Null · Dec 16, 2010

ywhtptgtfo said:
+35% on two kinds of things.

How do you get Drill + Cover = +35%?

PreLynMax · Dec 16, 2010

phungus420 said:
You could not beat an Immortal game with the current BetterAI mod, if you had no access to iron. The AI will kill you, I don't care how good you are at this game, BBAI at a high level is coded to attack and absorb weak nearby civs (as that's what good players do), and without Iron/Copper there is no way in hell you could make it to Rifles before a strong AI civ decided to annex your lands; and without metal you're pretty much defenseless. I challenge ye to prove me wrong (on a non isolated start - as that would be possible).

...and most of my games uses BAI, therefore enhances the need for proper metal. If I don't have at least iron by the time I reach Iron Working, it's an automatic game over. I refuse to entertain a losing game, and without proper metal, that's exactly what it is.

ywhtptgtfo · Dec 16, 2010

Dr.Null said:
How do you get Drill + Cover = +35%?

Nevermind, I thought it was Strength + Cover. Not sure why anyone would want to get Drill level 1 if he's not interested in going all the way down the Drill path.

Gwynnja · Dec 16, 2010

PreLynMax said:
...and most of my games uses BAI, therefore enhances the need for proper metal. If I don't have at least iron by the time I reach Iron Working, it's an automatic game over. I refuse to entertain a losing game, and without proper metal, that's exactly what it is.

Give me horses any day.

PreLynMax · Dec 16, 2010

Gwynnja said:
Give me horses any day.

What? Horses and Warriors vs possibly Spearmen and Axemen?

I don't have to roll the dice to figure out which group I'd choose.

Gwynnja · Dec 16, 2010

PreLynMax said:
What? Horses and Warriors vs possibly Spearmen and Axemen?

I don't have to roll the dice to figure out which group I'd choose.

Chariots pwn axes and shock promoted HAs do surprisingly well against spears. And they're fast.

obsolete · Dec 16, 2010

You could not beat an Immortal game with the....

I've been hearing this sort of line over... and over... and over... for years now.

It's been disproved in just about every case than I can remember, so let's not stock too much faith there.

snepp · Dec 16, 2010

PreLynMax said:
What? Horses and Warriors vs possibly Spearmen and Axemen?

I don't have to roll the dice to figure out which group I'd choose.

The losing group?

Farm Boy · Dec 16, 2010

PreLynMax said:
...and most of my games uses BAI, therefore enhances the need for proper metal. If I don't have at least iron by the time I reach Iron Working, it's an automatic game over. I refuse to entertain a losing game, and without proper metal, that's exactly what it is.

Shmeh, sounds like somebody needs to learn to love the Mali, Inca, Maya, Native Americans and Aztecs if early power units are a requirement every single game.

Sounds sort of repetitive though. :confused: