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no diplomacy after patch

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by sabinfire, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. d4everman

    d4everman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Messages:
    72
    The game wasn't givingh me much fun before, with this new diplomacy stuff its even less fun...unless I want to constantly invade the AIs. Which apparently is what the OP had to do.
     
  2. nebux

    nebux Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    63
    more power to conquest option. hey he wont give me a fair deal for resources, ok, i'll puppet.
    even on the last patch i got 2 deals with a fair one to one swap.
     
  3. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,522
    Location:
    Madrid
    That's true, the topic name is wrong. You are talking about trading. This game has trading, what it doesn't have is diplomacy. I don't think those 2 things are the same.

    Trading was more or less alright before the patch, and its seems they are tweeking it with hotfixes.
     
  4. Danceofmasks

    Danceofmasks Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    112
    I'm sure there are other factors at play here.

    I was just playing on large map prince (achievement hunting, actually) and I'd only just met Augustus.
    I asked him what he wanted for my whales, and he offered 437 AND 3 iron.

    Now, I was sure at the time he had more cities than any other AI at that point, but since I only have 2 iron (and 18 horses), I took the deal.
     
  5. HarryLime

    HarryLime Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    99
    You: Give me your ivory!
    Khan: No. I don't like you, actually.
    You: So be it. I destroy you.

    God, no wonder the AI hates you.

    I just played a game on Immortal and found diplomacy and trading one of the best changes since the patch. I was getting 225 gold for luxury resources the whole game along with 2:1 trades. I didn't declare war too much (though when I got declared on, I took advantage of it), didn't wipe any civ off the map and didn't back out on pacts.

    And it was a ton of fun. There were no runaway AIs. I played peacemaker to a warmongering Bismark a few times, liberated Washington and still ended up controlling almost my entire continent.

    Everyone on this board talks about how conquest and genocide is the easiest way to win and then complains that nobody likes them.
     
  6. elthrasher

    elthrasher Revcaster

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    712
    I've done 1:1 trades and sold luxuries for 300 gold on Deity post-patch. All that was changed is the AI is now smarter about trades. If you had 7 surplus luxuries lying around and your opponent offered a trade for a luxury you didn't need, would you give a 1:1 trade for it? What if your opponent desperately needed your luxury to get out of very unhappy? I would make him pay through the nose because it isn't really a 1:1 trade. He's getting out of very unhappy and I'm getting nothing.

    The annoying part is there's not a good way to tell what your opponent will offer, so when you go to sell/trade a luxury, you need to first offer the 1:1 trade, then drop your price. Sometimes they need your luxury but don't really like you that much and just want a little extra. Sometimes they go for an even trade. Sometimes it's 2:1 (this usually means they like you well enough but don't need your luxury). Sometimes it's 3:1 or worse (usually means they can't stand you and don't need your luxury but can't pass up a deal like that).
     
  7. jorissimo

    jorissimo Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
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    Location:
    Swapped cheese and windmills for cod and wine
    They were probably below -10 happiness.
     
  8. Druin

    Druin Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    CA
    I agree with the Trading vs. Diplomacy distinction. I feel this game had very good trading that was improved by the patch because it makes the computers much "smarter" about their self-interest.

    However, I have yet to experience "diplomacy" in Civ V. You can delay wars against you (bribing other DOW's), you can make sure you know when those wars are coming (PoC's), you can slightly increase the cost of AI's DOWing you (trading them lux/turn for gold) but under no circumstances, unless you are alone on an island, can you play peacefully.

    I see the argument that Civ IV diplomacy was silly because it was a numbers calculation game, but to be honest, it is what kept Civ IV from being strictly a war game. If you were a strong early-game player and settled enough peaceful cities you could tech trade and religion whore your way to space even against high level AI's. That is no longer the case.

    I should point out that there is no requirement to win via domination or any variation of domination in Civ V. You can peacefully settle as many cities as is reasonable then play always war while DEFENDING them all game and try and win from there. But that just doesn't feel the same as a nice peaceful builder game and to be honest, it is insanely hard to get a deity AI to agree to peace if you don't start wrecking their homeland and they WILL eventually outproduce your military given enough time :)
     
  9. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    *** NEWSFLASH ***

    Diplomacy has been fixed in the latest patch to work as before (and it's a bit more telling now as well).
     
  10. Perkus

    Perkus Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    316
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Well that's one way to find out they just patched to 1.0.0.621, I guess! I note this change is once again not documented. Why bother even having a change list when it's so incomplete?
     
  11. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    Riverdale, MD
    I think Pact of Secrecy is probably underlying the super lopsided trade offers. I have to imagine that a party to a Pact of Secrecy takes a relations hit with its pact partner if it trades with the pact target

    E.g., Civ A and Civ B have a PoS against me. I ask Civ A for whales. Because of the PoS, giving me whales is a minor stab in the back to Civ B, so Civ A will probably want an arm and a leg for it.

    On a side note, one thing I'd like to try in my next game is forming a PoS with Civ A against Civ B, then trading with Civ B to see if Civ A gets angry.

    Then, I want to reload to a point before the PoS, and then form the PoS with Civ A *and* Civ B, try trading with both, and see if it pisses the other one off.

    Would be interesting if Civ A is pissed in Scenario 1, but if neither is pissed in Scenario 2.
     
  12. aimlessgun

    aimlessgun King

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    Just when I'd accepted the new luxury valuations :/
     
  13. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    Oh, another thing I'm wondering: are there any relations-implications inherent to puppeting vs. annexing (I assume razing is bad)?
     

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