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No happy people

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by shyuhe, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. mystyfly

    mystyfly Knight of Cydonia

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    @Mut: I thought we were allowed to improve riverside resources but have to trade them away instantly, the rule being "not profit from resources" as no happy/health bonuses.

    @shyuhe: yeap that sig got a bit bulky but it has been useful before and seems to continue being useful ;)

    re ICS: I'd like to avoid the grid but I like packing cities close together with lots of overlap.

    As mentionned, health will likely be a big issue (have same thoughts about :) w/ religions like bestsss) so we'll be chopping sparingly - rember, forests that are shared by several cities add to health to all cities...

    Agree on early tech as well but would, like shyuhe, stick to worker first.
     
  2. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Welcome, Mutineer :)

    Agree on Agri->AH and Worker first. Wheel can keep our worker occupied until AH.
     
  3. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    I guess worker first is better. We can shave a turn or two getting to the cows maybe. I was mainly hoping to pop some more huts and get a broader view of the available land before we get into a strategy discussion.

    Yeah. I think we're just assuming it will be generally hard to unload these in trade, and that we might have to leave a number of them unimproved.

    Agree. I wasn't sure what you guys meant, but the term makes me think back to strict grids in Civ 3. A grid seems like more of an extra constraint here than a solution. I'm thinking we will have to settle a much tighter dot-map than usual, but we'll have to base it around food availability, most likely, rather than a grid configuration. Imagine that means finding some good blocking sites for later infill?
     
  4. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    ICS grids are awesome, if you can pull it off. I don't think we want to restrict ourselves that much though, even if it does provide a powerful economy.

    I'll try to play through agriculture tonight and re-post some more pictures on the nearby land.
     
  5. bestsss

    bestsss Emperor

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    hopefully some of your neighbor build the hanging gardens.
    Actually there are a few wonders to help the game and broken events.

    I missed do you consider broodway/rock and roll/hollywood happy resources (which they are, you can even have them on a tile)
     
  6. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    I was assuming they are resources and therefore banned. Though, the game should be mostly decided by that point. :D

    All the stone wonders are great here. You're probably right, though - building it ourselves is a stretch.
     
  7. bestsss

    bestsss Emperor

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    you can possibly make a huge stretch to try very early medicine which would solve the health issues.

    if it's doable to take biology from liberalism i see no reason not to be able to get early medicine.
     
  8. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Biology from liberalism without a philosophical leader will be tough. And yes the modern happy wonders are banned since they provide tradeable happy resources (unless we trade all of them away).
     
  9. bestsss

    bestsss Emperor

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    >>Biology from liberalism without a philosophical leader will be tough.
    Very good point.
     
  10. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Well you don't need to lib anything fancy to prioritize Medicine. True that Enviromentalism is the only thing that can even remotely enable us to even dream about Power (or growing big cities for that matter) this game :p
     
  11. bestsss

    bestsss Emperor

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    in that line: forest preserves+environmentalism combo does worth mention
     
  12. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Good luck! Looks like a fun variant, I'll be lurking. :D

    As Silu said it's pretty easy to lightbulb to biology with or without liberalism. No major concessions.
     
  13. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Agree on agri -> AH, warrior -> worker. Comments on the discussion tmr as I am sick today :blush:
     
  14. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    @Ras - you want warrior first? Is it for better scouting?
     
  15. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Nah... scratch that, we can build road (hill/forest) so worker first... I have huge headaches, that's why I didn't want to comment today ;)
     
  16. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    Well, I am thinking this variant probably open way to vassal exploits. I remember playing fun variant exploiting vassals in Warlords. No health resources limit as, I know one can not spread corporation with out proper resource, but can one create one with out one?
    If we create corp and spread it to vassal we can unload to vassal all relative resources I think.
    But corporations come too late in the game and vassals are slow to exploit for attacking purposes. My guess difficulty level is too high to play with that. We can use cooper/iron so mining corp is available to as in any case.

    Actually what is the purpose of variant? What we want to investigate? When I was hosting any kind of variant I always did try to show power of some part of game mechanic. What we want to show?
     
  17. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    Noooooooooooooo! We need a purpose?! :D I don't think we went into it with a specific game mechanic to exploit. It just seemed like a tough and potentially fun variant to play.

    How do you exploit vassal corps? I have no experience with that...

    A medicine beeline makes sense. We're probably gonna have to hold off on chopping forests, so we can maybe abuse Environmentalism / preserves, like bestsss said (a civic I never run - SP is sooo good) and NP. It is unfortunate that the variant basically obsoletes Sushi. ;)
     
  18. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    I don't think we had a purpose in mind. Maybe the purpose is to explore alternative sources for health and happiness other than the standard resources, such as FR + temples :) I think environmentalism will be useful but we still need to come up with an economy that gets us there.

    Vassal corps basically means you found the corp and spread it ruthlessly to your vassal - we can do that for some of the corporations for sure. It'll bring us lots of money and immortal AI get some pretty good discounts that should let them deal with the added maintenance. But corps conflict somewhat with environmentalism so it may be tough...
     
  19. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    So, the benefit is just the cash running into the Wall Street city? Ok... Environmentalism's effect is on maintenance fees in target cities, though, if I get that correctly. That shouldn't conflict with spreading to an AI.
     
  20. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    We would have to spread Mining - which I'd imagine we'll want in our own cities too. But vassal city spreads should help offset our cost.
     

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