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No happy people

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by shyuhe, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    ^ I like that plan... Yay for the wheat! We got lots of river-less food here. :D
    The road will be 7t, plus another 5t for the cow. How long 'till this cow is done? Can we see the save?
     
  2. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Cow is done next turn, so the roading can be completed in 8. If a settler is started now, it will take exactly 7 turns, so it could settle on the 9th with the help of the partial road. I was skeptical about Settler before the 2nd Cow is up but it sounds like the way to go now. So fire up a settler immediately for Stone in 9 turns? Coincidentally Masonry takes 9 turns... It's all too perfect! :lol: I guess that means some stupid barb is going to piss in our cereal.

    EDIT: Shall I play until that? Feels stupid to change player in 3 turns :p
     
  3. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    yee go ahead, I think :)
     
  4. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Played until the Settler is done. Changing from river farm to Cow lost 1 turn from Masonry. Since the Settler was already a turn early (mismathed in last post) I had time to finish the current Warrior before the Settler with no delay on anything. Left it in capital and went to explore north with our WM1 one. He met a barb archer right away... and survived (across river, on forest, WM1 for 27.9% barb win chance).

    Worker should improve the 2nd Cow and then prolly make the single chop or mine more. I microed cap to grow this turn as GW isn't up until next turn.

    EDIT: Or chop right away? Didn't check the math in that. Can easily lose GW by 2000BC.

     

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  5. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    we can not chop yet :) remember? no bronse working yet.
    Probably our next tech, unless there some other ideas.
     
  6. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Apparently I don't remember :blush: maybe I should just stay silent for a while before I start asking why we built Warriors instead of Axes...
     
  7. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

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    There is an alternative to bronze, assuming we are successful with GW, which I think we have a good chance to get, stonehenge is not gone yet.

    Run straight to monotheism + try to get Stonehenge after GW.
    Idea = our variant will benefit from temples, more early religions we have = better.
    We have reasonable shot to it I think and we do not need barbarian defense.

    Getting stonehenge is a bit optimistic, but possible. Even if we loose it after putting some hammers into it, return in gold will be good. Next city in that case should be gold one for more instant commerce.
     
  8. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Hm, SH is indeed optimistic (esp considering we have met another Mysticism starter) but not totally unreasonable. We'd need to be very lucky to get it though. The tech path is something to be discussed further. I'm actually liking the Mono shot (maybe due to my Fancy Play Syndrome), delaying Writing/Pottery might not be that bad since we're shooting for 'Mids, which gives a lot of leeway WRT teching.

    Losing 'Mids would be very bad though, and sometimes they go as early as 1700BC. SH is a quarter of the 'Mids, so it's a significant delay on that. Dunno. Shooting SH and teching BW, and shooting Mono and not building SH are also options worth considering I guess :)
     
  9. mystyfly

    mystyfly Knight of Cydonia

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    I prefer avoiding any unnecessary risks that might set us back later like trying for SH however we have stone so once we get the GW we're quite safe from barbs and might try to go for it anyway, but let's wait with that until we get the GW... my gut feeling tells me the decision to try for the SH will be made for us... :p Our capital should put out some settlers after GW anyway to seal off a reasonnable junk of land for us.

    I'm not sure about the mono sling, we'll be adopting hindu I guess and we'd have to spread judaism around all by ourselves - quite costly. I'd rather rely on sal founding more religions (like a DR beeline lol) and let him spread it... I'd prefer BW -> pottery -> writing or so...

    Are we going to cottagespam our capital again? I guess so...
     
  10. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    We can finish GW in 2040 BC, I think. By then the SH should be as good as gone.

    I don't like Mono either. I don't see how we can get it nearly fast enough, and I think we need Writing reasonably soon. Sal went Poly, so he could just grab Judaism, as well. Also, there's a really good chance Sal will found at least Christianity later, and we should still have reasonable shots at COL and Philo if we wanna take them.
     
  11. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    2040 would be pretty late for SH, so I wouldn't count on it. But I wouldn't mind building it for a bit for wonder failure gold while we grow our capital.

    Once we get stone hooked up, I'd go all hammers in our capital to cut down the production time (I think three plains forests + plains cow for 10 hammers/turn). In the meantime, I'd like to tech BW now after masonry, both for slavery (settlers) and chopping (GW).

    Also, it's looking more and more likely that Saladin is our only neighbor, which means we'll probably want to infiltrate our first GSpy.

    Also, I wouldn't put too much effort into SH because it'll tie up our capital from building settlers (which it'll need to).

    Roster:
    shyuhe
    mysty
    Silu just played
    Ras - UP
    bbp (on deck)
    Mutineer

    I hope you're feeling lucky Ras :king:
     
  12. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    We won't get BW in time to chop the GW, and I really don't think we need to whip settlers. We can grow to size 5 while building GW, and then work pig/2cows/mine/silk for +6f12h, which is 24hpt towards settler... I think I prefer Writing here.

    Yeah, infiltrating the first Spy in semi-isolation is a major reason I like this GW move. We definitely wanna do that.
     
  13. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Yeah, part of the reason I considered a Mono shot was the fact that it doesn't have that great options. As I see it they are Poly->Mono, Hunting->Archery, Pottery, Writing and BW. I agree on BBP above on the relative uselessness of the latter for the time being. I don't see us needing Libraries and cottages immediately (cap busy utilizing hammers for a long while, 2nd city useless before pop) so they could maybe be delayed some. If we lose GW then I think Archery (or BW if we're feeling lucky) is in order - by the looks of it there's a LOT of barbspawning land. Until then we would IMO be somewhat free to pursue our dreams :)mischief:) if we want.

    Not getting Hindu spread would suck though. If we get the Mono one that could autospread everywhere taking it away from our hands if we get Hindu or not. There's a big chance that Saladin will pop Mono before us, though.

    Seems nothing is simple in this game so far :)

    EDIT: Agree on all-out hammers in cap from next turn on.
     
  14. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Presuming we get the GW, we'll want alphabet relatively early. I don't see our cities growing very large so I'm fine running farms for now (pyramids!).

    Good point about settlers in the capital - there are more than enough hammers there to not warrant the whip.
     
  15. bestsss

    bestsss Emperor

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    I'd make the stone city work on the stonehendge: it has 4 hammers (forested hill)*2 = 8 hammes = 15 turns.
    A monument finishes in 8 turns and border pops at 18.
    You'd be better off building the hendge (17th turn), indeed you may lose it but it's a very good gamble.
     
  16. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    @Rusten: you stole my joke! :p (though seeing France results, it's better this way :lol:)

    I am a bit torn by the tech paths suggested! that's some creativity :) I would go for the conservative BW -> pot -> writing for copper location then 2 pop whip of imperialist settlers assisted by granary (in satelite cities). The thing is if something go wrong (will try to be lucky Shyuhe though :p) and we are on monotheism, I expect barb troubles.
    I like bestsss' idea of throwing hammers into SH in second city if we have a sufficient stock of warriors.

    Mids: where do we do them? In the capital, it will dillute the GP pool... unless the spy is done before, but maybe that's acceptable. Otherwise we skip SH and start them in second city after some more warriors and a monument. (oh and Silu, in deity challengers, they went in 2200 bc :D)

    Can't play before tmr (paper to do :cry:)... thoughts?

    Ras

    edit: I am like Shyuhe I would rather go with farms than cottages (forgot the button to build them :D)... better leverage for the whip/mids/variant imo.
     
  17. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    I don't like Poly - Mono at all. Judaism will be FIDL before we even finish Poly, IMHO. Hunting-Arch is a waste, especially if we get GW.
    I suggested Writing (or Pottery-Writing, I guess), because we don't have an obvious alternative, it's never really such a bad move, and it opens up Alphabet (as shyuhe pointed out, we want this relatively soon coupled with the Spy).
    BW is ok. There's a reasonable chance we have copper in the capital, and we can eventually use the whip in secondary cities, yes.
    Nothing is that necessary immediately, I suppose. Hard choice...
    Edit: I guess I'm for EITHER Pottery / Writing OR BW / Pottery / Writing.

    Sure, we can put some second-city hammers into SH, if only for failure gold. That's a good idea.
     
  18. bestsss

    bestsss Emperor

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    Weird, I think bronze working has no contender here. You might have copper and you can chop the mids.
    Raised happy cap few turns earlier and growth is nothing you can beat. Plus if you are going mids cottages are such a waste.
     
  19. babybluepants

    babybluepants Deity GOTM Staff

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    ^ Ok, that makes sense. I keep thinking the 'Mids are way in the future, but I guess we need to go for that very soon.

    Don't think I mentioned it yet, but I agree on no cottages here. They don't really make sense given the variant and early Rep.
     
  20. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    I don't think we build build mids in the capital since it'll be busy with settlers after GW. Henge in second city is a good idea bestsss - I like it! Failure gold isn't bad. I think pyramids will have to be built in a third city, so we might want to give some thought as to where to put it. I don't mind building the mids in the capital if we can spam out settlers from a different city though. Having GE pollution isn't bad (we could potentially rush the hanging gardens with one :lol:).

    Techwise, I'd go BW (hoping for copper) followed by pottery. Constantinople has a good food surplus so it can actually use some cottages - it'll help speed our road to alphabet. Plus if we're going to whip, we'll want a granary.
     

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