No happy people

[Silu]

Can't play before tmr (paper to do )... thoughts?

My thought: screw the paper and play!

I like SH in Thessalonica. For 'Mids I don't see an alternative to the capital. It needs some major hammers and even more so when we're reluctant with chops.

Hunting->Arch was strictly a failed-GW-move proposition. Writing's fine by me, we'd be a tad slow to Mono admittedly because of no luxury resources to work. For BW/Writing/Pottery, IDK really, all have only minor immediate benefits. Writing would enable us OB'ing to get faith, maybe that is indeed best. With any luck we get free pops in Thessalonica with that.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

mids in third city? That means they won't be started before 1900/1800 bc... and they will be started in a one size city... that's basically abondonning them imo, or we expect to be very lucky. (we won't have 4 workers chopping them either if we go GW in cap and SH in second city - and even then I think second city must do a couple of warriors first, as we have 3 iirc)

I think either we build them in cap after GW (in which case second city slowly build a monument then settler), or we start them in the second city after warrior and a monument.

Agree on the tech path

 

[shyuhe]

If we build the mids in the capital, how are we going to expand? Or are we just going to put expansion on hold until they finish? Mids with stone are 250 hammers and our capital at size 5 can work 2 plains cows, 2 grass mines, and pigs (for 13 hammers).

I guess 20 turns (probably a bit more since we have to grow to size 5) isn't horrendous now that I think about it. And if Thessalo can crank out a settler working the plains hill forest after it finishes (or fails) on SH. I think the third settler will finish around the same time that the pyramids will.

edit: Does anyone know if the imperialistic settler bonus overflows into the next build?

 

[Silu]

xpost mania...

Weird, I think bronze working has no contender here. You might have copper and you can chop the mids.
Raised happy cap few turns earlier and growth is nothing you can beat. Plus if you are going mids cottages are such a waste.

No, we can't really "chop the 'Mids" We want to preserve our forests, preferably only chopping the single one in capital... Which we have time to chop even with a later BW. The Copper is a fair and most important point. My final vote on this: it doesn't matter! OB for faith+diplo, maybe a cottage and early granary somewhere, or copper + early reluctant chop... Really, I think it's all one and the same If I had to put them in order I'd say Writing>BW>Pottery, with a very small cap between Writing and BW.

About Settlers vs 'Mids... I don't see such a big a rush to grab land (huge amount land by the looks of it, and just the silly doofus to contend with us), on the other hand 'Mids can be lost to some random IND guy with a BFC Stone. Definitely 'Mids in cap IMO.

 

[shyuhe]

Since it looks like our build orders don't allow for granaries or for cottages, pottery can definitely wait here.

@Silu: I'd still like to go BW before writing, partially as insurance against GW and also to see if there's BFC copper, which would speed up the pyramids.

 

[Silu]

Yeah, I'm fine with BW for now

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

My thought: screw the paper and play!

Yeah right I am happy to be moved down in the roster if u are in a hurry to get the turns done

Since it looks like our build orders don't allow for granaries or for cottages, pottery can definitely wait here.

They don't include libraries either... advantage of going pottery first is that you get the pre-requisite bonus. seems weird to go BW -> writing -> pot -> alpha

 

[shyuhe]

They don't include libraries either... advantage of going pottery first is that you get the pre-requisite bonus. seems weird to go BW -> writing -> pot -> alpha

But writing allows us to OB with Saladin. He'll probably graciously spam us with missionaries if we OB with him.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

^^ Good point... not sure what is best now

 

[bestsss]

just a note: missionaries require either organized religion or meditation (+monastery) and he is not likely to have any if you tech writing for OB early.
I'd chop for mids (perhaps 2 w/o copper and 1 w/ copper), -1 health is nothing compared to losing them and forests can regrow.

 

[shyuhe]

Well, first things first, we have to snag the GW before we can even think about the pyramids.

 

[Mutineer]

Well BW now is a safe choice. it's give us security of alternative path in we loose GW.
If we want pyramid, development plan should be:
GW in capital - settler - settle food rich site which can crank workers/settlers for us.
In mean time capital does pyramids. Second city better make 1-2 warriors first, otherwise it is too risky barb wise.

A other alternative path is going writing - math, ignoring BW.

Idea behind that is chopin for full hammers.
Other reason to
go straight writing - for open borders - and missionary spawn from saladin. On other hand it could be too early, and saladin missionaries will die from barbarian on the way or he does not want to build them yet.

 

[mystyfly]

Well BW now is a safe choice. it's give us security of alternative path in we loose GW.
If we want pyramid, development plan should be:
GW in capital - settler - settle food rich site which can crank workers/settlers for us.

Secondary city could try for SH instead of warriors in case we get the GW. A warrior or so is ok though.

IMO tech should be BW > pottery > writing > alphabet. Neither pottery nor writing is that urgent, and as ras said, with this order we get the discount. I don't see sal spreading hindu so soon anyway.

 

[Tatran]

go straight writing - for open borders - and missionary spawn from saladin. On other hand it could be too early, and saladin missionaries will die from barbarian on the way or he does not want to build them yet.

Lurker''s comment :
Even on huge maps + raging barbs the AI missionaries always seem to make it.
Also, when the AI runs OR it will spam missionaries.

 

[shyuhe]

Given that we have no idea how far Saladin is, BW--pottery--writing for the full discount is fine with me.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

OK, it seems we reached consensus Will play tonight.

 

[babybluepants]

Damn! I missed a whole page of discussion. It was one hell of a party yesterday, though.

The tech path sounds good.

Did we reach a consensus on cities though? What is it? A couple of warriors out of Thessalonica during this set or SH or monument? Are we growing Constantinople to 5 during the GW build?

PS: I think Sal will be in OR soon enough. The Hindu leader tends to follow through on Mono in my experience. Doesn't matter too much, as I don't think we necessarily need the religion this early.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

a couple of warriors before SH yes, though capital will be micro for fastest GW, not fastest growth.

 

[shyuhe]

I thought Thessalo was going straight into SH...

 

[babybluepants]

You sure it's even faster? I can't look at the save right now (don't know if there'll be any overflow hammers), but I'm getting 8t for GW with either max food or max hammers.