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No more "distance from the capital"?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by ViterboKnight, May 24, 2011.

  1. ViterboKnight

    ViterboKnight King

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
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    Having played since Civ1, I've noticed that every Civ game had its version of "distance from the capital": either a matter or corruption, or waste, or maintainance cost. This implied that you had to take into account the placement of your capital (sometimes even resulting in moving it to another city), the placement of your other cities (better if close to and all around your capital), and the building of a second pseudo-capital (with the forbidden palace).

    Now, in Civ5, it seems that all this doesn't exist anymore. There is no factor that penalizes somehow the fartest cities from the capital, and therefore there are no more buildings that lower this malus. Whatsmore, the capital cannot be moved anymore.

    I'm not sure about this. It seems that an important factor of the game has been removed (the macro-management of your empire). Besides, this way you can found cities scattered all over the world (one here, one there, one at the other side of the world) without ANY complication (apart of logistics).

    Am I the only one to see it this way? Or perhaps it actually makes some sense? I'd like to have some opinions from someone else.
     
  2. Polycrates

    Polycrates Emperor

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    Dec 15, 2006
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    1,288
    There are some complications still....first of which is that you're going to have a much increased road cost or the need to build a bunch of costly harbours (and be sure every "clump" of cities has a coastal city). But the logistical cost seems to me to be a very large one...if you've got a piecemeal empire then it's going to be very hard to defend it all without massive military spending and you're going to be ripe for taking apart. Plus you widen your borders in a game where chokepoints are more important than ever.
    The difficulty of logistics is why I think England is stronger than it's given credit for, because it has a far greater ability to support a wide-ranging empire.
    Honestly, I think the balance for this isn't too bad, and it removes an overcomplicating factor that never really worked amazingly well either.

    Given the importance of the capital in this game though, I do think you ought to be able to move your palace (with some sort of workaround for domination victory).
     
  3. The_Quasar

    The_Quasar King

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    Oct 1, 2010
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    Excellent thought out reasoning, I agree with all your points.

    This is the only point I disagree with... in the real world (yes, I know this is a game), capitals don't normally move under these circumstances, there have been exceptions, but this is the general rule... imho, moving the capital is a bit of a cop out, the whole point is you defend your capital with everything you have. It's rather like the king in chess, it plays a similar role, and I believe this makes for better gameplay. To be able to move it is, imho, a bit gamey. Only if you lose it should another city become the capital (as now, but perhaps a player choice of city might be better?).
     
  4. ViterboKnight

    ViterboKnight King

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    I see your points.
    In Civ3-, there was corruption.
    In Civ4, there was maintainance cost.
    In Civ5, there is logistic expenses for roads and harbors.
     
  5. Kerosene31

    Kerosene31 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
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    402
    I'm glad the distance penalty is gone. You can have some really odd shaped empires and have a lot of fun without the distance penalty (mostly on island maps where you can build harbors).

    The limits on your empire are still maintenance costs and happiness, you can just have any shape empire you want.
     
  6. roguepro92

    roguepro92 Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
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    to compensate for that free to shape your empire etc.
    the AI should consider you better target to attack if your city is out in middle of nowhere or far "enough" from your mainland. so it forces you to make even bigger army or not make a random city just to grab one happiness resource.
     
  7. The_Quasar

    The_Quasar King

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    Oct 1, 2010
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    862
    Recently, I've found the AI does tend to "pick on" a city that might be separated from your main body of territory. In my last 3 games the AI has attacked in just this way. I think this may have been tweaked in the last patch. Definitely an improvement!
     
  8. Keejus

    Keejus Prince

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    Denmark
    Historically, there have been cases of capitals changing, and very rarely is the first city founded in a nation also its capital. Rather than omit the ability to change capitals completely, I'd like to see it possible, but with a number of drawbacks. It should definitely not be as easy as Civ IV made it.

    Perhaps you could sacrifice a social policy to relocate your capital, but if anyone you're at war with at the time you change it captures your former capital, it'd count as losing your capital (reclaiming it wouldn't change capitals back, but you'd have to end the war before the city completely ceases being your off-capital)?
     
  9. TPQ

    TPQ Cogito Ergo Civ

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    UK
    I think the current system is a lot less constraining than in previous versions. I always ended up going for communism in Civ4 to mitigate the maintenance. Now I'm not tied in to any specific administrative system.

    I'd like to see a lot of Civ4 in Civ5, but this particular mechanic I'm happy enough not to have.
     
  10. Jatta Pake

    Jatta Pake Warlord

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    Los Angeles
    I also disliked the whole Vassal business in civ4. corruption and maintenance made those games less fun. I like puppet/annex solution.

    I wouldn't mind if they added some type of vassal system on top of puppet/annex. For example, vassal could be an option that turns cities into permanently allied Vassal States. Certain diplomatic functions could break the perm alliance and release a Vassal State into an AI Civ.
     
  11. Karl_Rove

    Karl_Rove Pleb

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    May 17, 2011
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    89
    I was thinking of that the other day. They could be more autonomous than puppets, but still need to defer to the master.

    Unfortunately, there wouldn't be as many advantages to vassals in 5 as there were in 4. There aren't any corporations or health resources, so the only things I can see someone feasibly demanding from a vassal are strat resources and maybe a luxury or two. With the current AI, who in their right mind would let a part of their empire be managed by them? But then again, why would someone vassal a civ instead of puppet? What advantage would a vassal have over a puppet? A puppet can offer all of those things and then some, while a vassal would ONLY offer those things.

    edit: Maybe having an enemy AI capitulate to vassal status instead of city by city conquering would be nice. I think this is two specific of a scenario to institute a general feature like vassalage.
     
  12. Im_An_Eejit

    Im_An_Eejit Chieftain

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    I too was thinking of the vassal system recently, was wondering if you could also keep the civs in the game if you wished, but had almost total supremacy over them - bit like Stalin over much of Eastern Europe during the postwar period. I know this would be entirely inappropriate for multiplayer, but many cities of the AIs i keep simply to prevent them from resettling there, a buffer zone of sorts would be welcome in many of my games.
     

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