No more hasty decisions! - Monarch Sury

[Choeimok]

My main problem in Civ 4 seems to be knowing what my priorities are - Do I work a mine in the capital to get that Settler out faster, or do I run a scientist? Do I want BW or do I want Pottery? Do I want a second worker or some more warriors?
I'm not sure how good the above examples are, but I think that's generally why I only occassionally do well - usually I will just quickly pick something, usually the wrong thing.
So, what could be a better cure for this than a forum game with short turnsets (10 turns? Maybe only 5 in critical situations)?

So, I know that FIN and PHI are always praised, but my personal favorite leader is Suryavarman. EXP/CRE is just too lovely to pass up, his cities seem to get running in half the time of that of, say, Elizabeth. Or Toku.
His starting techs, Mining/Hunting are so-so and his uniques are no Sac.Alt. or War Chariot, but whatever.

So, we have a good old boring temperate medium sea level standard-size Pangaea map on normal speed, I was going to pick cold climate for a change, but for some reason decided against it.

Here's the start:

Spoiler :

Lots of FPs (9+the one we're standing on if I counted correctly, that's almost like Earth-18-Thebes), but not really good resources so far. Not a lot of forests, but there are some hills. Where could the food be? 1N2E of the Settler?
I'm thinking I'll move the Scout 2E, on that PH?

 

[Rusten]

[...] but my personal favorite leader is Suryavarman.

You're not the only one.

 

[vranasm]

You're not the only one.

I like exp, I like cre... I like the combo, but is not played much here... I guess those BE's are somewhat meh ;-)

Too much Fp's in the start, not enough food for my liking, give me wet corn+grass pigs start over this and i am in the game.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Sury's earlygame is so ridiculously fast. IIRC he was banned in realms beyond pitboss 4 . His uniques are pretty bad compared to top tier ones but the traits!

 

[Ororo]

Wow, you're really lucky to have picked EXP leader for a start like this
2W1N looks like an oasis - a very strong early game tile.

 

[kossin]

Sury is, in my Creative addicted-ness, one of my top 3 leaders. The early game, being the most important part, is sooo easy

I agree with Ororo, unless you have hidden rivers, it looks like an Oasis 2W1N from the settler. The only food special might be 2E1N of the settler by the looks of it.

 

[Choeimok]

Nice to see it's not just me who likes the leader

So, if 2W1N is an oasis, and 2E1N is food, I don't think I want to move in any of the two directions since I'll want both in my capital's BFC - not only is food the top priority, that 2 from the oasis will probably also snowball quite a lot, especially since Pottery - which i am probably going to beeline before anything else, maybe even if 2E1N is not dry corn but livestock, hopefully not sheep - is 3 techs away

So...

• I am most likely not going to want to move East or West, since I'll either lose my food or my oasis
• I'm not going to want to move South, since 1) I'll lose both of the above and 2)The South looks too dry for my liking.

So, I think it looks like I'm either going to want to SIP or move North if anything interesting turns out to be up there. Unfortunately, the Scout is in the South, so we won't be able to see what's behind those grass forests. So what do we do with him?

• Move him 2E as originally planned and see if there's anything worth giving 2FPs and an Oasis up for
• move him on the suspected Oasis...?
• Keep it uncomplicated and just outright SIP, since anything that would encourage moving is pretty unlikely anyway. And if there is something good in what would right now be the third ring, we can always give it to another city.

I hope this makes sense

 

[Sian]

Nice to see it's not just me who likes the leader

• I am most likely not going to want to move East or West, since I'll either lose my food or my oasis
• I'm not going to want to move South, since 1) I'll lose both of the above and 2)The South looks too dry for my liking.

second mark is solid enough ... theres nothing suggesting that moving south would be a wise move (3s looks like pure desert and theres a desert hill), but not wanting to spilt up your resources isn't as solid.

You have a lot of Flood Plains, likely a food to the east (2e1n to be specific) and an oasis to the west (2w1n, although that could be an Flood plain as well with a linking river to the west of it)) ... you'll only work 5-7 tiles (depending on your luck with luxury resources) until HR at least. My suggestion would be moving the scout to the hill east of your settler, and depending on what it sees, SIP or 1NE (or maybe even 2E on the plains hill)

 

[Unconventional]

My main problem in Civ 4 seems to be knowing what my priorities are - Do I work a mine in the capital to get that Settler out faster, or do I run a scientist? Do I want BW or do I want Pottery? Do I want a second worker or some more warriors?
I'm not sure how good the above examples are, but I think that's generally why I only occassionally do well - usually I will just quickly pick something, usually the wrong thing.


I have this problems as well, especially in the mid-game. So I'll follow your game to see how mid-game decisions are made and adapted according to the course of the game. Good luck...

 

[stimpyhoek]

Its monarch right? If u got space make a beauru cap and 5 other hammer towns. For pure ease get civil service b4 1ad. Then get oxford, then get cannons.

 

[lymond]

Yep, Sury is da bomb and I think his UB is underrated

 

[Gwynnja]

Sury's fabulous traits more than make up for his lack of UU. I suggest moving the scout onto the grassland hill next to the settler before too much more speculation about what might be in the fog.

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

Hey, I've read the first post a couple of times, because priorities are something I think about a lot, and they're key to moving up. In my opinion, you're looking at the wrong scale. Don't start with "scientists vs settler," start with "what's the biggest problem facing my civ right now?" Once you think about it, it's usually obvious, something like: Opponents have more land; No metal; Research stalling; things like that. Once you identify it, make a plan to fix it, then put all your resources behind it (tech, production, everything). Do 1 thing and crush it. Most games I lose, it's because I lost track of this question and just started running autopilot.

 

[OneLeggedRhino]

As an example, in the current game I'm playing (the Immortal Brennus thread, just finished the 2nd turnset), the biggest problem I'm facing is that I'm at war with Gilgamesh. I declared to take a critical resource (because my previous biggest problem was "no copper"), but now I got what I need and want to go back to peaceful expansion. The way out of a war, pre-alphabet, is to cause damage but not lose troops. That means I should continue building units, pillage him, but not attack cities. The tactics (what to build, what to attack) come from the goal, which comes from the problem assessment.

 

[Utenlok]

This looks like a good start so i figured I would try it too. I also get a little sloppy and need to work on tightening my game. So here goes mine so far. Also note that i can never figure out which image upload site doesnt completely suck, so i am not sure if i can get too many pics

First 38 turns:

Spoiler :

I settle in place like I nearly always do. I dont mind losing a floodplain when there are this many around. I also like the potential of 2 rivers crossing here as it may save valuable worker turns early that would otherwise be spent building roads.



Corn (dry), Hills, Floodplains... overall pretty nice. To me its a Bureaucracy capital for sure.

My priorities for city placement now become a GP farm (something i usually fail at getting a legit one goin), at least 2 or 3 hammer cities, and when its a Bureaucracy capital i like to have a "cottage grower" which seems most likely on the west to grow those.

I go worker first and Agg first. Agg seems the logical choice to farm the corn and use as my prereq for pottery since i dont need fishing at the moment. My next tech choice may be wrong, but with this many FPs I get off to such a great start with early cottages. I also consider that since I am creative and dont need to build monuments that a half price granary will likely be the first build in most cities.

Since I see a jungle tile to the north I decide to head east and maybe find a nice site where that river leads.

3880 BC- my border pops (woot creative!) and I can work the oasis for the extra commerce. If a 3 hammer tile was available it would get a worker out faster for an expansive leader, but there isnt here, so i do not have to face that decision.

3840 BC- Its only turn 4 and I meet Justin in the east. I have a Scout so there is a bit of buffer but I would have liked to go a couple more turns before bumping into someone... especially an Imperialistic leader. I turn my scout around and head the other way to find land I can actually get.




3680 BC- Agg finishes and I start the wheel. I dont know the worker turn counts so well on Normal speed but a pretty good estimate has him doin corn, a mine, and starting a cottage only a couple turns after Pottery finishes, so as to not "waste" the new tech for long. Another reason I dont go BW first is that im afraid to chop too much with this start. I know I am expansive, but that is only break even on this many FP and I want a look at the land to see what the resources are like. With a Buer capital i want it to grow to disgusting size as soon as i can reasonably manage.

3640 BC- Budism founded, but it's not Justin.

3400 BC- Worker pops. I start a warrior to grow on. Worker heads to farm corn. I have Justin to my east, jungle to the north, desert to the west, and tundra to the south. And look at that, it's red. Dont tell me I am about to be the meat in a sandwich with Cathy and Justin. Please dont box me in with two imperialistics!




My scout gets molested by the lion and i have a 9 turn heal time. I am dying to know who is in the red, but i am afraid to leave my hill, so I wait for now.

3320 BC- Hindu is founded, and its not Justin on that one either.

3200 BC- a bear shows up in the desert... /sigh. I run away of course because bears are the most OP unit in the game. If I could bear rush an opponent I would. The suspense is over, it is not Cathy, but Joe. Oh joy!

3160 BC- While healing along Joe's border I see he has stone. An Industrious neighbor with stone... hmmm. So my first thought is that I hope he picks stonehenge cause my creative can outdue his monuments if we have to fight for tiles. But that is ignorant of me. While i am pouring some coffee I realize that he is going to research masonry to improve that stone and will then build the pyramids or the great wall. Not sure if wonders have preference like "economy" or "military" but I have always assumed they do, so I start thinkin about my neighbor building the great wall and now I am thinkin that my second city will be a hammer city for sure.



3040 BC- Pottery is in. My next tech is BW for several reasons. I am planning to make the hammer city on the Yellow square to the south so I am gonna need to be able to chop down trees. I also want to try to whip more this game cause i usually dont do it enough and I am always slower than I want to be at filling up the land. I work the corn and oasis to grow to size 3 when i will start a settler as warrior finishes and explores the north east to see if i need to block anyone up there.



I am roading to the proposed hammer city while settler builds. I like to do this anyways for the trade routes, but just as I am finishing the road it looks like i will need it for the metal to make troops down there. I have copper in the cross.




So settler pops next turn and I plan to send him to yellow site to get started on makin troops. I need another worker i think and I may go another settler right after if i can get defenses coming out of the south quickly.

I plan to settle the cottage grower next to get research rolling and then the gp farm as i will have library available to build by that point.

one more shot of the land:



thoughts? I am open to being told how bad i botched it or how bad my plan is.

 

[Utenlok]

Didnt mean for those images to be that big. will fix next time i post. what is good size for most people?

 

[Utenlok]

Every time I take a screenshot with a leader window or tech window up it's not in the screenshot.

Any way, this is up to 600 BC (turn 91)

Spoiler :

My settler pops and i send them to found the production city in the south. While they are on the way Jew is founded in 2400 BC. I found Hari...jibberish in 2360 BC. I start a warrior there which will become a stupid spearman because i hook up copper next turn. The capital makes a worker then a warrior so it can grow one more pop. 4 turns to grow and 4 to make a warrior. I love when that happens!

2240 BC- Meet Izzy, she is Jewish. Finish AH, start writing.

I wanted to make the cottage grower first but i decide that Justin is gonna get too close if I dont go SE first.

1920 BC- I meet Brennus, the buddist. I also notice Joe built the Great Wall (or Iron Curtain if you will). My research is doing ok but not as awesome as it coulda been if i made that the priority of the second city. But Joe's wall makes me feel a little reassurance on this point.




1880 BC- Writing finishes and I must choose. Monarchy, Math, Alpha, or head towards Lit? With Izzy and Brennus around i will likely be able to trade for Monarchy. Also, if my happy cap stays low I can maybe force myself to whip. (a goal i continued to fail at this session. though i stalled out on mines or scientists. I didnt work garbage tiles and i got the buildings i need so far).

So head towards Lit and build the Great Library? I recall a recent read when someone said to always do alpha yourself on Monarch cause the AI wont get it in a good time. So that is the option i choose. I am thinkin to do Alpha then Currency. Izzy up to her usual tricks in the following photo.




1760 BC- settler pops. Grow the capital to 5 on 2 axemen. Angkor Thom founded in 1680 BC.

1560 BC- I meet Toku. I feel like a proctologist being around this many.... nevermind. Same turn a guy in a black bathrobe reads a scroll to the 5 people who live in my capital. I dismiss it as superstition for now.

1040 BC- (thats the date not a tax form) Alphabet is in. I can trade for fishing, myst, or archery. So basically I am even with them all. Joe has IW, but he still doesnt know his ABCs so I consider that a wash if not a slight lead for me. This makes me feel good about my choice to sure up the military first. I know I am not with the pros yet, but I am where I need to be on this game and I have axes around to protect myself as well.

950 BC- Izzy swaps to HR, so she has Monarchy. I could probably go Jew and get it from her, but i need to get Poly and Priest first. I trade writing for arch, fishing, and myst.

Justin builds the ToA. Joe begs for Myst; I of course help out.

Huge LOL for 625 BC. I decide to go grab the horse and fish along the coast before it is gone. Apparently Justin had the same idea. We are both on the spot on the same turn.



Currency comes in and all the AIs have 20g to trade. /sigh I sell fishing to Joe for 20g. GS due in 5 turns. I plan to make the academy with him. CoL next? Math? Lit? Basically trying to decide if i want the GL or Civil Service more. I feel I have a good shot to get both but not quite a lock. There is a barb city in the NE so I may be able to get a HE ready unit from it. hmmmm......

 

[K.Murx]

General remarks:
-image size is fine for me (netbook)
-please include the HUD in your pictures - minimap and scoreboard conveys useful information.

Overall, (as already stated) you need a goal. There are many things in Civv that you can do,
however which one you should do can only be decided if you have a goal.

So, what's yours?

 

[stimpyhoek]

1350bc

Spoiler :

I tried it to 1300bc and the combination of land and leader means this aint a monarch game. Every kind of choice is available. Its more like noble. My only advice is not to go flood plain mental except in cap. Those beguiling beautiful squares can blind a man....

 

[Utenlok]

i dont know why the HUD doesnt show up in my shots. How do i fix that?