No resources for your UU? Huh?

[JujuLautre]

Oromo Warrior, Cho-Ko-Nu, Redcoats and Quechua don't suck.

I thnk he meant UU that don't requre a ressource when the normal counterpart does. Ans chokonus require iron.

What do we have in this category? Camel archer, dog soldier, holkans, jaguars and fast workers. And even if I don't find Jaguars are good, I woudn't say the others suck, especially holkans.

-- edit: after re-reading the post, I'm afraid I'm probably wrong. So if you include all of readcoats, quechuas, skirmishers, oromo, musketeer.... I would even less dare to say they suck.

 

[Jperkinson]

I thnk he meant UU that don't requre a ressource when the normal counterpart does. Ans chokonus require iron.

This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine regarding Civ4... The fact that a UU REPLACES a regular unit...

The UU is a "Bonus" unit. I have no problem if that "Bonus" requires a special resource. However, I DO have a problem when you don't have the required resource to build the UU, AND can't build the standard unit that the UU replaces (even if any other civilization could).

An example would be the Japanese Samurai. The Samurai replaces the Maceman. Macemen can be built with Copper OR Iron. The Samurai requires Iron.

Therefore, if you are an iron-less Japan (but had copper), Not only can you not build your 'bonus' UU (which is OK with me), but you can't even build a regular Maceman. Whereas any other civilization could build a maceman in the same position... This is a 'penalty' for being the Japanese... Which is opposite to the 'spirit' of the UU.

 

[Diamondeye]

That's the challenge in the game. It can't all be easy.

That's gotta do for a sig!

I always took it as the Khmer were the only guys crazy enough to think of strapping a ballista to the back of the elephant.

Hehe, sounds plausible!

you forget that except for fast workers all the UUs that dont need StratRes suck

Agree (maybe except for DS). Wohoo! Holkan! So if I don't have copper, I can build people with strength 4 instead of archers 3 to attack the enemies! Wohoo!
Yay! Jaguar! A weak swordsman skilled at fighting in forest! Just what I want for my cityraiders!
Yeehaw! Camel riders! Knights with withdrawal chance! Makes escape so that they can die when the enemy counterattacks!

Dog soldiers are the only nonressource UU beside indias I have respect for

 

[Molybdeus]

I thnk he meant UU that don't requre a ressource when the normal counterpart does. Ans chokonus require iron.

I always forget that crossbowmen require iron. I guess the game assumes they will be wearing a cuirass.

Anyway, even jaguar warriors aren't that bad. Jungle defense is worthless, but a resourceless swordsman means that you can pick your second city site to maximize your production of those swordsmen rather than simply placing a city so as to get iron.

 

[Diamondeye]

I always forget that crossbowmen require iron. I guess the game assumes they will be wearing a cuirass.

Anyway, even jaguar warriors aren't that bad. Jungle defense is worthless, but a resourceless swordsman means that you can pick your second city site to maximize your production of those swordsmen rather than simply placing a city so as to get iron.

...Or that the bow of the crossbow is made of iron so that it doesn't break after the first shot. Lulz...

 

[Molybdeus]

...Or that the bow of the crossbow is made of iron so that it doesn't break after the first shot. Lulz...

While some crossbows used iron prods, composite materials (layered wood and sinew glued together) work just as well. And early crossbows just used plain wood. You shouldn't really need iron to make crossbows.

 

[lutzj]

Oromo Warrior, Cho-Ko-Nu, Redcoats and Quechua don't suck.

i mean, as opposed to the normal units. and cho-ko-nu need iron

While some crossbows used iron prods, composite materials (layered wood and sinew glued together) work just as well. And early crossbows just used plain wood. You shouldn't really need iron to make crossbows.

you need iron to make effective crossbow bolts. anything softer/weaker would break or bend on impact. even cho-ko-nu used iron for their bolts, despite living in a place with abundant bamboo (which, btw, would have made great longbow arrows...)

other archery units don't need metal 1) they can be made with stone or other material since they use less force and are not expected to punch through armor 2) longbows/archers are defense units, this is also why Mech infantry dont need resources.

 

[JujuLautre]

An example would be the Japanese Samurai. The Samurai replaces the Maceman. Macemen can be built with Copper OR Iron. The Samurai requires Iron.

This is a really bad example, as Japan has the only UU whose ressource requrement is stronger than the usual unit

Agree (maybe except for DS). Wohoo! Holkan! So if I don't have copper, I can build people with strength 4 instead of archers 3 to attack the enemies! Wohoo!

strength 4 immune to first strike. Instead of being sarcastic, did you consider the fact that you can buld them just after having the required tech, thus not delaying them by hooking copper to rush a neighbour? Or that they're excellent barb defenders, not fearing warriors, archers or pillage?

Anyway, even jaguar warriors aren't that bad. Jungle defense is worthless, but a resourceless swordsman means that you can pick your second city site to maximize your production of those swordsmen rather than simply placing a city so as to get iron.

This is of course to be considered for all the units we're talking about. And I really think Molybdeus speaks the truth here.

 

[troytheface]

The worst i have experienced is playing a game close to the end, aiming for fission and nukes to obliterate a neighbor who had a gazillion units...and ..
...no uranium.
At least when you don't have iron or copper (a rarity) you find out early that you better race to horsbackriding/gunpowder/rifling.
And the Jaguar is a great UU. Good graphic, and a good immersion civ-
Jags in the jungle with Chitza Itza and sacrificial alters..what more could a civer ask for...

 

[Scaramanga]

Maybe you could decide what your unique unit will be based on the resources you have by "inventing" it first (call it a unique unit of the world).

 

[Dark Sheer]

I guess one of the solution to this problem is giving the unit a proper upgrade path and allow all Civs to have access to all the regular units regardless of their UU (a bit like how upgrade was fixed for Civ3). So its like Maceman will upgrade to Samurai and since Japan can build Samurai then maceman won't be an option. However, if they don't have Iron then maceman automatically appears.

 

[plesniak]

I played as the Americans the other night. I was playing at Prince level. Thier UU does not even come around until the modern age...Navy seals. I already pretty much had a domination victory in the bag and the UU really did not even come into play. I did not even build one of their UBs. While it is nice to have these uber units and buildings for each civilization...it is definetly not necessary to win a game using them.

 

[ferenginar]

You need to play Native American the UU Dog Soldier is an Axeman that only requires bronze working, you do not need copper or iron. I know its only 4 but it has 100% v melee, which makes it a match for praetorians in the field, and they only cost 35. This is a UU that does not require the strategic resource of it's counterpart.

They fall down against archers and chariots but thats the whole point of the combined army.

 

[Diamondeye]

strength 4 immune to first strike. Instead of being sarcastic, did you consider the fact that you can buld them just after having the required tech, thus not delaying them by hooking copper to rush a neighbour? Or that they're excellent barb defenders, not fearing warriors, archers or pillage?

Immune to first strike doesn't really matter in the lifespan of the Holkan, as the only unit with firststrikes it has a chance of beating is the archer, and as the archer has a serious city bonus, it has good odds (>50%) both with and without the first strikes. Agree, it works against a churchill archer rush, but so does Immortals.

And yes, I consider that I can build them before hooking up copper, but so can I with Dogwarriors, and they are better, IMHO.