No Tech Brokering - easier or harder?
- Thread starter krille
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Currently in a game with brokering turned off, and it is interesting, since you cannot trade techs that you have stolen either (as well as traded for). I have two vassals, one voluntary, that are both dead last in score (I am first, though behind in tech/GNP). They are mostly stuck in the liberalism era whereas I am heading toward industrial. Through directed research I managed to get them to divy up philosophy and education, as well as military tradition and science while I went down the steel path. This worked out really well, but as both vassals where behind (e.e, both still need aesthetics), and I had traded for the techs they still needed, I could not boost them up. Then, I started trying to catch up via espionage and while it helps me considerably I still need to self-research so I can keep them both up in military and hopefully get some shared research in the modern era.
I like it because I can trade off what I have without fear that the target will also trade it, but, when behind in technology, it does make things more tricky. It also makes performing co-research more difficult and I am guess this levels the playing field between the human and the AI, which (guessing) does not coordinate research between master and vassals.
I like it because I can trade off what I have without fear that the target will also trade it, but, when behind in technology, it does make things more tricky. It also makes performing co-research more difficult and I am guess this levels the playing field between the human and the AI, which (guessing) does not coordinate research between master and vassals.
krille
CivDOS Fanatic
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Polobo, the AI Master always gives all its techs to its Vassals, so no, the AI does not coordinate research between master and vassals. 
You are quite right, in the case you are hopelessly behind (started alone on some remote island) you won't be able to catch up very easily. On "Pangea" style maps though this won't be much of a problem. As for Vassals, very true, but then I'm not too fond of Vassals and usually disable them altogether.
You would probably have to adapt your research to the "No Tech Brokering" setting, specialize in techs AIs are less likely to beeline, such as Aesthetics. Moreover, holding off on selling every tech you research to every AI possible could be more successful. You may get a better price later (as of now it's often worth selling a 2k Tech for a couple of big ones, because either you do it now or someone else is going to beat you to it).
I'm going to try a "NTB" game now, OCC Deity. Might be overkill.
You are quite right, in the case you are hopelessly behind (started alone on some remote island) you won't be able to catch up very easily. On "Pangea" style maps though this won't be much of a problem. As for Vassals, very true, but then I'm not too fond of Vassals and usually disable them altogether.
You would probably have to adapt your research to the "No Tech Brokering" setting, specialize in techs AIs are less likely to beeline, such as Aesthetics. Moreover, holding off on selling every tech you research to every AI possible could be more successful. You may get a better price later (as of now it's often worth selling a 2k Tech for a couple of big ones, because either you do it now or someone else is going to beat you to it).
I'm going to try a "NTB" game now, OCC Deity. Might be overkill.
I currently play with brokering off because I cannot STAND the idea of having vassals, gifting them techs (particularly military techs), and then having them trade them to my enemies.
OTAKUjbski
TK421
There should be an option to turn tech brokering off for vassals only.
Otherwise, what everybody else said: If you're behind, NTB can really sting; but if you're ahead and/or have vassals, NTB makes the game move so much smoother.
gettingfat
Emperor
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I once had Mansa as my vassal. I must say that allowing this tech scum to remain on the face of planet was the biggest mistake I've ever made. His face just popped up every 10 turns, showing his disgustingly sly smile, begging for a tech. Once in a while I lost patience, gave in and two turns later I could find them in the hands of Alex and Bourdica.
mourndraken
King
without tech brokering, I'm playing against neandrathal civs. The AI needs that advantage because the AI cannot take the necessary steps to control their economy in order to stay competitive with a thinking human. Use the no tech brokering when you are trying a new level of difficulty until your game improves, then try that level with tech brokering, I'm sure that you will notice a big difference in game difficulty and it stretches the replay value of CIV4
mourndraken
King
monarch with tech brokering. um why ?
krille
CivDOS Fanatic
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Then up the Difficulty level or something. 
At Monarch you'll quite easily be able to keep a steady tech lead. At Deity, however, you will not. When you hardly discover any advanced techs on your own, the competition doesn't necessarily get so Neanderthal all that easily.
At Monarch you'll quite easily be able to keep a steady tech lead. At Deity, however, you will not. When you hardly discover any advanced techs on your own, the competition doesn't necessarily get so Neanderthal all that easily.
mourndraken
King
look bud I gave my opinion as requested in the thread's title. Why are you setting me up for a sting ? Go flame somebody else alright ?
krille
CivDOS Fanatic
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mourndraken > No, no. No flame intended, sorry. What I meant was, you're probably ready to step up a difficulty level (if you want to). The reason I asked about the difficulty you're playing at is because, ultimately, you're going to win on Monarch anyway (no matter the options, sorta), so that's why I asked the question. I'm, personally, much more interested in input regarding Emperor+ (with Immortal and Deity being most interesting of course). For Monarch, what you're saying, probably holds true though. And I'm sure lots of people found your post helpful and it's a perfect response in regards to this thread. Hope I made myself clear and sorry again!
mourndraken
King
peace. I'm grumpy right now and that mood has little to do with this thread, you, or civfanatics.
Landmonitor
Prince
I play on Monarch and I turn it on to slow down the pace of the teching without slowing down the build speeds.
krille
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Landmonitor > I take it's for SP so:
Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml ::
Change iResearchPercent for your game speed to whatever you want. (The higher the slower the tech speed.) You probably want to adjust iUnitDiscoverPercent appropriately. And perhaps iImprovementPercent too.
Take a look at this thread for more info: Modding the aspects of "Game Speed"
Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml ::
Change iResearchPercent for your game speed to whatever you want. (The higher the slower the tech speed.) You probably want to adjust iUnitDiscoverPercent appropriately. And perhaps iImprovementPercent too.
Take a look at this thread for more info: Modding the aspects of "Game Speed"
Supr49er
2011 Thunderfall Cup
I hate trading a tech to a friendly AI only to see him trade it to those AIs I didn't want to have it. It forces you to trade with everyone or no one unless you play custom games with the 'No Technology Brokering' option.
Landmonitor
Prince
There is all that other stuff too about trading to friendly/vassal AI who then sell steel for 120 gold to someone who is furious with you and has samurai on your border. That sucks too.
But then again, that other stuff might be useful anyway, thanks for pointing that out.
As a bit of an aside, I like getting cannons as the first renaissance unit, then they run around with macemen and crossbowmen and own everything they meet. Its nice when you're fighting Spain and avoiding fighting Japan with a big border guard, but the thing is, Spain has no Iron, so they have Macemen but no Crossbowmen, and more importantly, no Knights. I didn't mention Pikemen ebacuse... I have no horses, but it doesn't matter because now I have cannons and no one else on my continent is even close to military tradition (neither am I, but it doesn't matter beause I have unflankable Cannons)... Then I play a different, much harder game: Major Paper, its on Marathon speed and Immortal difficulty level. It usually takes about 2-3 weeks to finish a game of Major Paper.
But then again, that other stuff might be useful anyway, thanks for pointing that out.
As a bit of an aside, I like getting cannons as the first renaissance unit, then they run around with macemen and crossbowmen and own everything they meet. Its nice when you're fighting Spain and avoiding fighting Japan with a big border guard, but the thing is, Spain has no Iron, so they have Macemen but no Crossbowmen, and more importantly, no Knights. I didn't mention Pikemen ebacuse... I have no horses, but it doesn't matter because now I have cannons and no one else on my continent is even close to military tradition (neither am I, but it doesn't matter beause I have unflankable Cannons)... Then I play a different, much harder game: Major Paper, its on Marathon speed and Immortal difficulty level. It usually takes about 2-3 weeks to finish a game of Major Paper.
Aristos
Lightseeker
it's funny, because I'm sort of a case of "evolution" in this matter... started trying NTB when I started to win my Monarch games, mainly because I am tired of no differentiation between civs in terms of research (in my view, this is the main effect of tech trading, and not a good one if you ask me).
So, after a couple of tries with NTB, I found that the difference was not as big as I wanted or expected. Research slows somewhat, but in the end, the whole tech whoring still takes place.
So, when I jumped to Emperor, I decided to go the way of No Tech Trading at all. And man, now that's a difference! As somebody suggested earlier, difficulty levels (higher) give the Ai a big advantage in resources, so they usually are ahead of you in tech. That makes for a huge challenge in Emperor +, plus you start to see real difference in research between civs. Add to that setting Random personalities (so that you cannot know what path every civ will take), and you have a hell of a game!!! Believe me.
Now I'm thinking on disabling cultural victory also, because I find that some civs go for it "full monty". If you are prepared to deal with such scenario (hehehe), there is no way they can succeed because they divert all resources to culture, and even if they had a tech lead against you, you can cath up, build up your military, and raze the cultural bastions to the ground.
I imagine a nightmare for my civ if that does not happen. SO I will probably try next time.
So, try Emperor with NTT and random personalities, and you will experience what I think true civ is.
Cheers,
So, after a couple of tries with NTB, I found that the difference was not as big as I wanted or expected. Research slows somewhat, but in the end, the whole tech whoring still takes place.
So, when I jumped to Emperor, I decided to go the way of No Tech Trading at all. And man, now that's a difference! As somebody suggested earlier, difficulty levels (higher) give the Ai a big advantage in resources, so they usually are ahead of you in tech. That makes for a huge challenge in Emperor +, plus you start to see real difference in research between civs. Add to that setting Random personalities (so that you cannot know what path every civ will take), and you have a hell of a game!!! Believe me.
Now I'm thinking on disabling cultural victory also, because I find that some civs go for it "full monty". If you are prepared to deal with such scenario (hehehe), there is no way they can succeed because they divert all resources to culture, and even if they had a tech lead against you, you can cath up, build up your military, and raze the cultural bastions to the ground.
I imagine a nightmare for my civ if that does not happen. SO I will probably try next time.
So, try Emperor with NTT and random personalities, and you will experience what I think true civ is.
Cheers,
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