1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

No wonder Succession Game: Slowboat to Alpha Centauri

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by Old n Slow, Jan 27, 2004.

  1. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    1,168
    Location:
    Vienna, VA, USA
    We were kicking around ideas elsewhere when this idea came up for a succession game -- no wonders. OK, maybe that's not enough of a challenge -- make no wonders, take no wonders. Hmmm better, but not quite there. All right, make no wonders, take no wonders, win by spaceship...

    Twenty turns each for the first round, ten turns each thereafter.

    Classic, Large Map, Deity, Raging Hordes, Restarts on.

    No starting techs. :rolleyes:

    Since we're so barbaric with opting for no wonders, why not have as our Leader, Conan of the Celts?

    - 3650 -- Found Cardiff, Start Alpha

    - 3250 -- Found Kells

    - 3150(?) Discover Alpha, opt for Code;

    Player List

    1) Old n Slow
    2) ElephantU
    3) TimtheEnchanter
    4) Jayne
    5) Stegyre
    6) TheViking
    7) LaFayette
    8) Golem
     
  2. Jayne

    Jayne Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,070
    Location:
    Worcs UK
    I'll join!! Shall I bring the barbarians?:p
     
  3. Stegyre

    Stegyre Expatriate

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    Utah, USA
    Do you accept new recruits? I'd like to give it a try. I figure I can add an extra challenge, as whoever follows me will need to spend their turns correcting my mistakes. ;)
     
  4. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    1,168
    Location:
    Vienna, VA, USA
    Names added to first post.
     
  5. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,272
    Location:
    Phila PA
    I have the SAV - opened fine. Looks like flat land. Can't tell yet if Cardiff could be a sub-SSC. I'll do some analysis tonight, maybe get to playing. Depends on "family matters"...

    Since this is CFC, are we permitting or outlawing caravan rehoming? If we promise not to "black-click" we might interest La Fayette...
     
  6. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    I'm in !

    Maybe we can send the spaceship to Mars instead of AC :D
     
  7. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    1,985
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    In general, I find caravan rehoming a bit unseemly, so as far as I care you can go ahead and ban it!

    The black-clicking, on the other hand... Hey, I guess we want it to be a challenge, right? ;)

    (although the benefit of having lafayette play would surely outweigh any cost of not black clicking)
     
  8. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,272
    Location:
    Phila PA
    The Elephant mounts the throne - and promptly breaks it. Time
    to buy a stone one...

    Looking at special pattern, where are huts?
    Two potential hidden specials at Cardiff; could mine Wheat to Silk
    Might Kells be on another?

    TOP5: Mongol(#7), Babylon(#2), French(#3), American(#5), Carthage(#6), Yellow unknown

    Tech: got Alph, doing CoL, 13t@2b/t=26b, got 5b

    Early strategy: ICS, look for high-trade sites & neighbors
    Need more creative city names too...

    chg 2nd worker at Cardiff to Forest
    3000bc: 6g,7b,13t
    ...send Kells Warrior south, Cardiff east: Ocean
    ...just noticed Kells is on Ocean too, not lake
    ...continue Warriors in Kells for martial law
    ...wish we had Bronze for RushBuying
    2950bc: 8g,9b,13t
    ...finally, a hut!
    2900bc: 10g,11b,13t
    ...Hut(144,36): Horse(KELLS)
    ...Kells production drops to 1, return Warrior & switch to Settler
    ...at least we got a Forest for Kells
    ...hoped for Whale by Kells, should have known from Hut
    2850bc: 12g,13b,13t
    ...PRB 1st row 11g
    2800bc: 3g,15b,13t
    ...found a Whale(138,40)! (136,36) is hidden: Fish or Whale?
    2750bc: 5g,17b,13t
    ...Kells FBF, Warrior back home
    ...2nd Warrior heading north, Horse south
    ...and now a Silk(140,44)! lookin up!
    2700bc: 7g,19b,13t
    ...Kells size 2, switch to Forest=1 waste, switch back
    ...hmmm: (137,43) is Rivered Swamp...
    ...shift Cardiff Forest to Grass for extra food
    Settler in Cardiff
    2650bc: 9g,21b,13t
    ...Settler heading for site next to Whale; Cardiff has no production till size 2
    ...(134,42) might be hidden too
    CODE LAWS(early?); start Bronze
    2600bc: 11g,1b,18t@2b/36b
    ...put off Huts cause Scrolls will delay Monarchy
    2550bc: 13g,3b,18t
    ...Fish to the north: could be first set
    2500bc: 15g,5b,20t@2b/40b
    ...another Fish to north; might be some hidden too
    StAug WEALTHIEST: #7=Celts
    2450bc: 17g,7b,18t/36b
    2400bc: 19g,9b,18t
    ...found NoWoW at (140,40-canal site):+2F,3T,3S: start Warrior;
    ...Cardiff back in business
    2350bc: 22g,13b,9t@4b
    ...Pheasant on southern tip
    2300bc: 25g,17b,9t
    ...Cardiff FBF
    ...wow: 3rd Fish to north
    Settler in Kell
    2250bc: 28g,21b,9t
    ...Cardiff size 2
    ...drop Kells settler close; Kells stuck but FBF
    ...PRB 1st row Cardiff 11g
    2200bc: 20g,25b,9t
    ...Kells size 2
    2150bc: 23g,29b,9t
    ...found Quickie at (142,34):+2F,1T,2S: start Warrior
    ...PRB 1st row Kells 13g
    2100bc: 13g,34b,8t@5b/36b
    ...fortify Warrior next to northern Huts
    ...forgot to switch Cardiff to Forest!
    ...PRB 1st row NoWoW & switch to Settler
    BRONZE; start CerBur
    2050bc: 8g,0b,12t@5b/60t
    TOP5: Yellow/#4=Egypt!

    Suggestions to successor:
    -Warrior returning to NoWoW for martial law
    -RushBuy 2nd row in Kells
    -Wait on Huts till start Monarchy; found cities nearby to
    prevent Barbs
    -After Monarchy, do Currency, Trade, Maps

    And the save: co_b2050.zip
     
  9. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    1,168
    Location:
    Vienna, VA, USA
    Names added to first post.

    I don't black click & I don't care...(I think that there's a tune that goes with that jingle...)

    I'll rehome camels if folks don't say anything, otherwise I'll go with the flow. I don't think we'll need to, so I'm willing to let a plurality swing the vote. 1.5 votes for no rehoming.

    No reason to worry about reputation, BUT -- if we slip, we may never get a great rep back, & we'll want a decent rep down the road (as well as along the way.) I vote that we strive to maintain a sterling reputation for as long as we can.
     
  10. Stegyre

    Stegyre Expatriate

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    Utah, USA
    I second the vote for sterling reputation. (My preferred way to play.) I am indifferent on caravan re-homing. (I've done it some of my own games and therefore witnessed it's effectiveness, but I'm also playing with pros who don't need such an edge.)
     
  11. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,895
    Location:
    Ringwood, NJ USA
    Hello all.

    While you seem to have plenty of people and do not need another 'hired goon', I will follow this game with great interest. I'm looking forward to reading about all of your endeavors!

    Should be quite interesting without being able to develop a true SSC or plunk a free cathedral in every city with a single wonder! May have to take out every non-wonder AI city you can as soon as possible to assure that you are first in space. Won't it be fun if an AI launches a quick ship and their capital contains a wonder? You'll have to poison the city down and wreck the city walls to be sure the wonder inside the capital is destroyed when your barbaric, Conan-led hordes take it!

    It would probably be a bigger challenge to have "build no wonders, take no wonders, win by conquest"! :)

    Then again, the blundering AI probably won't present you all a huge challenge no matter what they build.
     
  12. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,272
    Location:
    Phila PA
    We need to keep some AI around: we need someone else to build Apollo, the more possibilities the better. We could even gift them some Food freights, but they might use them for city growth instead (anyone try that?)

    The list is 6 so far, and Old n Slow has a 7th place reserved...
     
  13. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,272
    Location:
    Phila PA
    Morning/Afternoon Notes to Successor(s):
    - We have the island to ourselves. It is decent sized, could do 20 or so cities if we wanted to do ICS, say a dozen Big Fat Ones.
    - There is another nice high-trade spot, with a single river, down to the south. NoWoW is using the Whale, but can switch to other terrain once a few roads are in.
    - The AI is Babylon/French/Egypt/America/Carthage/Mongol. Babylon and America are best bets for research friends, followed by French and Egypt. Beware Carthage and Mongol. Or wipe them out and hope for friendlier restarts.
    - An extended Monarchy may be easier than dealing with Republic without Mikes or JSB. If cities go beyond size 3 we will need lots of costly improvements, or Commy/Fundy. We can't even use the Statue to get there, either. Both of those are off-path techs to spaceship, as is MonoTheism, which we'll need for Cathedrals.
    - Without a real SSC we should think about either Twin Cities or massive caravan deliveries. The first favors fewer, larger cities; the second favors many smaller ones.
    - Either way, Trade will dominate this game. Those in need of refresher, consult the Great Library here:
    http://home.tiscali.cz:8080/~cz045662/civ2/glindex2.htm

    And a snapshot:
     
  14. Stegyre

    Stegyre Expatriate

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    Utah, USA
    The newbie states the obvious and/or the naive.
    Our specials appear to be pure whales or fishes (i.e., the seed is 1-15): we only see whale-specials in the central set and fish-specials in the upper and lower sets. (In my own games, I pull up the map editor to determine the correct seed and hut locations – a lot easier than memorizing the hut pattern. Are we allowing that? N.B.: I’m not talking about pulling up our world map in the editor – that would be a cheat tantamount to a “reveal map” – I’m talking about pulling up a blank large map, locating our coordinates and then testing the seeds to see which one is our pattern.)
    Cardiff is sitting on a 3-special spot, no doubt by design. ;) I would vote for converting all three specials to silk, although we are talking about an investment of 45 settler-turns, and that time might be better spent expanding, expanding, expanding.
    I like the other trade spot – the swamp that is the source of the river on the southern peninsula – another 3-special spot (one hidden), which will contain 4 river tiles, although we’ll have to drain the swamp. I guess this and Cardiff would be our Twin Cities? According to the pattern (2-4-2), there is a whale in the black area a knight’s move northwest-north from the trees on the southern peninsula. The only way we can reach it is with a settlement on that tree tile. Without black-clicking, it seems unlikely that any other landmass is close enough to utilize it.
    The swamp at the north end of the continent is a 4-spot special (2 hidden), but two of them are FISH! (My least-valued special.) I wouldn’t bother settling there, but I would recommend settlements directly east of the swamp (using one fish and one hidden special (covert to buffalo) and another a knight’s move west-southwest from the swamp (using the other fish and the other hidden-buffalo-special). Those settlements would also suppress barbs from the huts, as ElephantU recommends.
    The last hidden special is two tiles south of Quickie. I guess that’s what NoWoW will work after our river-city is established.
    I’m a fan of early republic and WLTP-growth rather than an extended monarchy. Without wonders, we’ll want to build temples in most settlements, as they are far more cost-effective than luxuries. Once temples are built, we can celebrate to size 7 before stopping. I’m also a fan of fewer-larger-cities as opposed to ICS (which always leaves me with a bunch of settlements to which I have little or no attachment, and I’m just waiting for a friendly barbarian horde to take them off my hands).
    How about moving our fortified warrior one tile n-ne, just in case anyone invades from the ne coast and tries to take our other hut away?
     
  15. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Colorado Spgs, CO
    Of course, if you want to make this a greater challenge, you could make this a "One Wonder" game: make it a requirement to build the all-important Eiffel Tower. ;)
     
  16. la fayette

    la fayette King

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    728
    Location:
    albi france
    If both Tim and Elephant play a game without black-clicking, I must be there. Please count me in :) .
     
  17. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    1,985
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    ICS or big fat cities???
    - My brain says ICS until we get enough riot factor for double unhappies, then go to republic when the Luxuries will be more effective.
    - My gut says there's not enough shields on this land for good ICS. With so few forests we'll be lucky to pull 3 sheilds in most cities without significant settler turns being invested.
    - But in the words of Aragorn son of Arathorn (or was it Shmi Skywalker?) "What does your heart tell you?" :rolleyes:

    We'll just play with no real strategy and see what happens.


    2050 (turn 0)
    -- Administrative stuff…
    -- Cardiff move to forest for 5s (How's it go... "food to size 2, then max sheilds" right?)
    -- Kells work forest and ocean for 2 beakers since growth not desired
    -- Quickie work GL sheild w/road for extra gold coin since despotism suppressing special
    -- 3g, 6b/t (10 turns)
    -- Hit enter…
    2000 (turn 1)
    -- I was going to PRB to 30s in Cardiff, but no 30s unit yet (or any time soon for that matter). I'll catch on one of these days. :crazyeye:
    -- PRB 4s (to 20) in NoWoW to speed settler
    1950 (2)
    -- Warrior returns to NoWoW
    1900 (3)
    -- Quickie Warrior
    -- Cardiff work trade squares while finishing settler
    -- NoWoW FBF (to use Elephant's notation)
    1850 (4)
    -- Cardiff settlers
    -- NoWow size 2 - work forest for 1g, 2b, 4s even though one sheild wasted (alternative is work ocean for 2g, 2b, 3s) - gives settler in 3 turns
    -- Cardiff has no production due to support - must settle soon.
    1800 (5)
    -- <crickets chirping>
    1750 (6)
    -- Move forest to GL in NoWoW while completing settler for +1f
    -- Beaker reqirement 48
    1700 (7)
    -- NoWoW settlers
    -- Beaker requirement suddenly jumped back to 60! Apparently losing citizens for settlers moved our power rating?
    1650 (8)
    -- Kells Settler
    -- Flimsy Wall founded
    -- Kells currently no production
    1600 (9)
    -- Adjust workers in Kells, Quickie to get 7 beakers
    1550 (10)
    -- Cermonial Burial -> Monarchy (Cur, Hbr, Map, Wri)
    -- Muddy Gardens founded on river-swamp. Can clear later. Temple started since settler would be completed before size 2
    -- Kells-Quickie road
    -- Horse supported from Muddy Gardens to allow Kells production to resume
    -- PRB 5s (to 20) in Quickie
    -- 5g, 8b/turn (9 turns)
    1500 (11)
    -- Cardiff FBF
    -- PRB 4s (to 10) in Flimsy Wall
    -- PRB 1s in NoWoW
    1450 (12)
    -- Cardiff size 2
    -- PRB to 10s in Cardiff
    1400 (13)
    -- Road on wheat near Quickie
    1350 (14)
    -- <crickets chirping>
    1300 (15)
    -- Rush 4s in Flimsy Wall
    1250 (16)
    -- North warrior rehomed to Flimsy Wall in anticipation of cardiff settler
    -- NoWoW FBF
    1200 (17)
    -- Quickie settler
    -- Cardiff settlers
    -- Monarchy -> Currency (Map, Mas, Mys, Pot, WC, Wri)
    -- Hut Horse (Flimsy Wall)
    1150 (18)
    -- Sybase founded
    -- Hut Map Making - feh!
    -- Flimsy wall FBF - warrior too far out, hire elvis for one turn.
    1100 (19)
    -- Cardiff connected by roads
    -- Flimsy Wall size 2. Warrior returns, put elvis back to work
    -- REVOLUTION
    1050 (20)
    -- Establish Monarchy
    -- Settler near Quickie precharged one turn
    -- Rush 5s in Kells (to 20s)

    Notes:
    -- Kells is about to fill its food box next turn

    -- I really didn't have much of a goal or direction, just cranking settlers for the most part, and not spending too long before planting a city, but not really cramming them in like true ICS. I guess you could say I used the worst of both strategies. I had a rough goal of 4 more cities, but as I went along, the roads seemed more important.

    -- I built the southern trade city (Muddy Gardens) without clearing the swamp. At that point it was worth getting the city started for the trade rather than blowing 15 turns (more with river?) on clearing the swamp. Now that we are in monarchy, the NoWoW settler was heading down there to start draining.

    -- The settler in the center near Quickie is precharged one turn. If you want to start him planting a silk forest, you can. If not, send him wherever you wish.

    -- And not a single click in the black!!!
     

    Attached Files:

  18. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    1,985
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    And Recon data...

     
  19. Jayne

    Jayne Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,070
    Location:
    Worcs UK
    Me next! I should get it played over the weekend.
     
  20. golem

    golem Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2001
    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    Praha, Czech rep.
    This idea of 10 turns rule looks interesting. I would like to join the game too - if you accept me.
     

Share This Page