No you're a Nazi.

[Estebonrober]

1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”

14.Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”

Eco grew up under Mussolini’s fascist regime, which “was certainly a dictatorship, but it was not totally totalitarian, not because of its mildness but rather because of the philosophical weakness of its ideology. Contrary to common opinion, fascism in Italy had no special philosophy.” It did, however, have style, “a way of dressing—far more influential, with its black shirts, than Armani, Benetton, or Versace would ever be.” The dark humor of the comment indicates a critical consensus about fascism. As a form of extreme nationalism, it ultimately takes on the contours of whatever national culture produces it.

Umberto Eco Makes a List of the 14 Common Features of Fascism | Open Culture

I think this is an interesting list and for obvious reasons considering the state of the American GOP. It should be noted this was written up about thirty years ago.

 

[Angst]

After the election, I considered opening a thread very similar to this, using the points as a litmus test on Trump. I got into a talk about it on Discord instead, but I presume we'll see the same points raised then. I'd rather not prematurely point out what I said there. So I'm watching this thread instead, sure there's gonna be some stuff showing up.

For the record; I believe Trump checks most of the boxes. GOP is more complicated to me to define as fascist with these points, but that doesn't mean they aren't pernicious.

 

[Ferocitus]

Thanks for starting the thread.
I'll be interested to see how people separate out Nazism from Fascism. They are certainly intertwined in the 14 features.

The Some More News people addressed the distinction.
In today's episode, we discuss how President Donald Trump isn't Adolf Hitler OR a Nazi BUT he is a fascist. Specifically, he is an American Fascist.

 

[Sofista]

Thanks for starting the thread.
I'll be interested to see how people separate out Nazism from Fascism. They are certainly intertwined in the 14 features. [/MEDIA]

From the article itself (my bold):
It may seem to tax one word to make it account for so many different cultural manifestations of authoritarianism, across Europe and even South America. Italy may have been “the first right-wing dictatorship that took over a European country,” and got to name the political system. But Eco is perplexed “why the word fascism became a synecdoche, that is, a word that could be used for different totalitarian movements.” For one thing, he writes, fascism was a fuzzy totalitarianism, a collage of different philosophical and political ideas, a beehive of contradictions.”

While Eco is firm in claiming “There was only one Nazism,” he says, “the fascist game can be played in many forms, and the name of the game does not change.”

 

[uppi]

I'll be interested to see how people separate out Nazism from Fascism. They are certainly intertwined in the 14 features.

Fascism is a group of ideologies and Nazism is a specific ideology within that group. These points for the characteristics of Fascism do not define the "us", the "enemy", the traditions, etc. Nazism fills those blanks with specifics. For example, Nazism is full of hate against Jews, but another fascist ideology could determine another target for their hate.

 

[Cutlass]

1. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”

And yet Trumphadists are too snowflakey to be called fascists without wahh-wahhing all over the place.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I mean , sure, it may look that way because people are waving Confederate flags, are referencing Auschwitz, making conspiracy theories about Jews, feeding all kinds of Xenophobia, hate women, don't care about sexual abuse, ignore science, and are trying to violently overthrow the government, and are literally marching with Neonazis. But just because some of them literally call themselves nazis, doesn't mean they're fascist.

But what about the extreme leftist and their persecution of racists? Racists are an increasingly marginalized group because leftist media cannot tolerate their beliefs. They're not trying to hurt anyone. They're just trying to preach that as long as all the brown people voluntarily leave the country, or conveniently die off for unexplained reasons then the world would be a better place. Did you know racists are discriminated in the work place, and many businesses do not, in fact, want White Nationalists representing their company?

Did you know that only 70 million people supported the president that would best enforce these racist policies? 70 million on a planet of 7 billion. That's only 1%! Not only that, racists only control the Supreme Court and lost control of the Senate. To protect minority rights, I recommend the racists should also get 2 senators and be represented properly in there. Oh, and don't forget Nazis should give 2

Oh, and Twitter banned Trump. Those are the real fascists. How dare a private company not want to associate with someone? That's Communist! Well, no, because I guess that's free market. It's more Commu-nazi I guess.

Also, btw, if you disagree with me. You are trying to silence me, as with all leftist echo chambers do. I have a right to freedom of speech, as all non-commies should have.

 

[Estebonrober]

I mean , sure, it may look that way because people are waving Confederate flags, are referencing Auschwitz, making conspiracy theories about Jews, feeding all kinds of Xenophobia, hate women, don't care about sexual abuse, ignore science, and are trying to violently overthrow the government, and are literally marching with Neonazis. But just because some of them literally call themselves nazis, doesn't mean they're fascist.

But what about the extreme leftist and their persecution of racists? Racists are an increasingly marginalized group because leftist media cannot tolerate their beliefs. They're not trying to hurt anyone. They're just trying to preach that as long as all the brown people voluntarily leave the country, or conveniently die off for unexplained reasons then the world would be a better place. Did you know racists are discriminated in the work place, and many businesses do not, in fact, want White Nationalists representing their company.

Oh, and Twitter banned Trump. Those are the real fascists. How dare a private company not want to associate with someone? That's Communist! Well, no, because I guess that's free market. It's more Commu-nazi I guess.

Also, btw, if you disagree with me. You are trying to silence me, as with all leftist echo chambers do. I have a right to freedom of speech, as all non-commies should have.

Its all so very Orwellian.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Its all so very Orwellian.

View attachment 581730

Thought policing is bad, because that means that people are being forced to think in a way different from me. And that's obviously wrong.

-Alex Jones, probably.

 

[stinkubus]

And yet Trumphadists are too snowflakey to be called fascists without wahh-wahhing all over the place.

The constant denial of true intention is a deliberate strategy, not hurt feelings. To explicitly give up the game would undo years of indoctrination and cultural conditioning. Tens of millions of Trump voters need that psychological out in order to go through with it.

 

[Ajidica]

Thought policing is bad, because that means that people are being forced to think in a way different from me. And that's obviously wrong.

-Alex Jones, probably.

I don't know why, but I feel obliged to post this clip of Alex Jones carving a pumpkin while talking about Black Helicopter conspiracies.

 

[Estebonrober]

I don't know why, but I feel obliged to post this clip of Alex Jones carving a pumpkin while talking about Black Helicopter conspiracies.

Ah the good old days of harmless conspiracies mixed with a bit of truth that no one listened to, those were the days. . .

 

[stinkubus]

I don't know why, but I feel obliged to post this clip of Alex Jones carving a pumpkin while talking about Black Helicopter conspiracies.

What he's talking about isn't a conspiracy, those devices were used to find marijuana grow ops. There were significant appellate cases in my home state of Pennsylvania regarding their use.

One of the reasons these guys catch on is because their schtick is a mixture of fantasy and reality.

 

[Kyriakos]

Fascism is a group of ideologies and Nazism is a specific ideology within that group. These points for the characteristics of Fascism do not define the "us", the "enemy", the traditions, etc. Nazism fills those blanks with specifics. For example, Nazism is full of hate against Jews, but another fascist ideology could determine another target for their hate.

The Ustashe (WW2 Croatia) are often described as a hybrid of (italian) fascism and nazism.
Term-wise, "fascism" is actually more unique (alluding to Italy) than "national socialism", given the fasc(i)es were a prominent roman symbol.
Nowdays you'd see both fascism and nazism be used for various far-right parties/regimes.

 

[Angst]

The Ustashe (WW2 Croatia) are often described as a hybrid of (italian) fascism and nazism.
Term-wise, "fascism" is actually more unique (alluding to Italy) than "national socialism", given the fasc(i)es were a prominent roman symbol.
Nowdays you'd see both fascism and nazism be used for various far-right parties/regimes.

Modern academic usage talks about fascism as a group of ideologies under which nazism over, with Italian fascism being another subset of it, regardless of etymology. But maybe you're just establishing etymology here?

 

[Kyriakos]

Modern academic usage talks about fascism as a group of ideologies under which nazism over, with Italian fascism being another subset of it, regardless of etymology. But maybe you're just establishing etymology here?

Just noting that it could have turned out the other way around, and isn't tied to any history

 

[Angst]

Just noting that it could have turned out the other way around, and isn't tied to any history

What do you mean by it not being tied to any history? Is it in regards to the naming of the structure? So it could have been named nazism as the general word?

 

[Kyriakos]

What do you mean by it not being tied to any history? Is it in regards to the naming of the structure? So it could have been named nazism as the general word?

I mean that I would prefer it if it was named "germanism"

 

[Angst]

I mean that I would prefer it if it was named "germanism"

Not sure if the : o smiley indicates that you're being ironic or joking, so I'm just going to answer at face value ^^ Fascism is by no means reserved to Germanic or even European/Anglo-American peoples. It's a particular way to structure the world with extremist tribalism, cult of heroism, cult of personality, arbitrary syndicalism and relativism for the sake of power, authoritarianism and extreme embrace of revolutionary traditionalism to the degree of necessiating permanent revolution and therefore conflict and violence. It's a long list of traits, but for some reason the whole combined bucket list appeals to a significant enough amount of people that it's better to just shorthand it as something. Which is then fascism, which is, yes, etymologically unfortunate. Particularly the revolutionary traditionalism is why it is implemented so differently in regards to aesthetics and certain values in different cultures. American flags and cries for freedom on the back of armed trucks seems different to goose steps and skull uniforms, but it's the same structural appeal. The 20th century saw a bunch of fascist regimes in Africa, for example.

Not necessarily trying to argue there, since I think you agree, but just laying out the traits to note that tribalism, heroism, appeal to a single leader, etc, are not traits reserved for Germans. : )

 

[Arwon]

I mean that I would prefer it if it was named "germanism"

If Golden Dawn are germanists why did ppl support them tho