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[BTS] Noble Shadow game - Huyana Capac

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Shikhar Agrawal, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Since I am learning for general game and it's a specific scene like I won't get stone always and play with IND ability so I'm thinking to skip it. Thought about 1E too and yeah was definitely saving gems for later since it's near and no one would have been able to settle while grabbing other areas prone to others first
     
  2. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    Good thoughts from coanda on the city-settling reasons. 1N is a good spot, and in most games, you'd probably just settle there.

    Flood plains + financial = 3 F + 3 Commerce for 5 worker-turns. You can usually improve the cottages at the same pace the city grows. You get surplus food and quick growth, and good commerce at the same time. Very solid tiles. That 1 SE corn spot can get to size 5 really fast and be pumping out 20 commerce per turn with no problem.




    Later on....
    • I didn't notice that the 1N of wheat had stone in range. If you do go 1E of wheat, you can later settle between the stone/horse - but that's a pretty wimpy city that you'd be grabbing JUST for the resources.
    • I'd like to know what's downriver on that Corn river.
    • You had a green sheep up north, so there's likely a city spot up that way. Up to you whether you go for stone earlier or setup a 4th food-oriented city first.
    • Cow / Gold to the West is a decent 2-population city. Gold mines are very nice early, but get less important as the game goes on.
     
  3. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    If someone settles the gems - that's totally fine anyway. Let them waste time chopping the jungle, and you can just take it later! [But they won't get to it on Noble.]

    Good to look for general game advice - though it's also good to learn to play the map. So maybe go 1E of wheat for city 3 for now, and you can settle the stone/horses later. Even if you don't build pyramids, you can leverage your traits well with stone for other fun stuff, like Fail Gold. [Where you purposefully put hammers into a wonder without finishing it and then let the AI build it - which is very efficient with stone + industrial, because 1H = 2.5 gold that way. So a brown cow, can make you as much gold as a gold mine that way! but that's an advanced topic.]

    So far I really think you have a good attitude and the right idea on how to learn.
     
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  4. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Settling 1N of cows looks good to me as well. (honestly, I play tested this a little bit and really like settling the cap on the PH 1E of the starting position which set up a nice city 2 to the east with cow sharing, but oh well).

    Not settling for stone is silly in my book, regardless of no wonder focus (which is good imo). But still, we can teach how to leverage fail gold, and I'd at least build Mids casually as it is so easy to get on this level with stone +IND.

    Horse is in an odd position, but likely would have Maths at that point so can chop a super quick Terrace and settle sheep/horse. Not usually advisable to do so but with HC not bad.

    Shikhar - mines/hills are low priority for a long time. Much of production early comes from chopping and whipping.
     
  5. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Ok then will go Pyramids and I actually like it , it is super useful. Would also learn how to properly utilise it.

    Ok won't pay much attention to hills now while settling
     
  6. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Yeah was clearing up the area near corn

    Didn't thought much about 4/5/6 cities for now
    Btw thanks :)
     
  7. crashmon

    crashmon Chieftain

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    In terms of settling stone I 100% agree regardless of whether we go for mids or not. Mids is also super useful in being able to change into governments you have not teched for. My point is that if your going to build a wonder you need to have a plan and build it for a reason. Then you have to go 100% for it, or you will lose it.

    Classic example is GLH on Island or archipelago maps, as its so powerful... or Taj Mahal for the extra GA (but for this wonder you have to be first to the tech so its also situational. you have to rush Lib, then take Nat and hope for that)
     
  8. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Yeah I know mids is great , I guess I was just preparing for worst case when I am unable to build it. And I know stone is useful and provides good yield and can maybe sell it for some gpt when not using.
    Maybe in higher difficulty ai builds but in the games that I've played (noble difficulty)AI don't build them. For eg I didn't rush lib in my previous game and choose different tech and took nationalism after few techs and still got Taj Mahal , took me 30 turns though
     
  9. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    continuing, got settler and wheel now getting worker and pottery as recommended. Additional scouting revealed coast , wine , marble , ivory and also got a promotion in warrior

    Spoiler :

    Untitled6.png
     

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  10. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    Looks decent. We discussed a few options for settling city 2 - basically, either are good options, and just go with one.
    • Don't forget to switch to slavery now if you haven't.
    • Building a worker is good here - though you probably could have built a warrior than a worker at higher levels because of barbs. Either way next build should be another warrior to hang out to the West. Then probably let the capital grow to size 3 or 4, cottage a FP, then chop another settler.
    Regarding stone/marble - they're not very good tiles for yield (food is too low) and it's very expensive to build a quarry, so often players settle on them [marble or stone]. This speeds up access to those tiles by several turns.
     
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  11. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Thanks for reminding I really forgot to switch to slavery
    Ok will keep that in mind
     
  12. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    switched to slavery , first worker going for corn improvement second building cottage. saw copper in above marble. what tech to go for also should i ditch gold for growth and should i build something else , i didnt finish the turn so it isnt wasted
    Spoiler :
    Untitled7.png
     

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  13. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    • I'd work the gold.
    • Once you grow start working the cottage on the FP - no reason to work it before it's improved in this situation.
    • I'd recommend you set your Beaker slider from 90% to 0% for a few turns. The game has a rounding bug, and if you run at 90%, you're losing 1 per turn. It's a minor optimization, but they all add up.
    Writing looks good to me here.
    • Religious techs - no need.
      • You'll get enough culture from the terraces, and you can grab these later.
    • Masonry isn't needed until you're ready to found a city on the stone/marble.
    • Iron Working - in low difficulty games you usually have to self-tech this, in high-difficulty games you usually trade for this one. It's not needed yet.
    • Metal Casting - it's good for the forges, but you're just not at that point yet.
    • Writing - libraries combo well with financial gold mine river leaders, and it opens up Mathematics for 30 hammer chops.
    • Hunting - no need.
    • Fishing - no need.
    • Horseback Riding - Totally viable. You have horses nearby. You could definitely do an early Horse rush and probably win an early conquest here just with horses. Maybe come back to the game at this point here some day later go for the "Horse Archer (HA) rush". It would absolutely work, but like spamming stone wonders with an industrial leader - what are you really getting out of it?
     
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  14. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    As Pottery finishes, you've checked off all the early priority research boxes. Essential worker techs, bronze working, granaries. Writing is the gateway tech for whatever you want next. You probably won't be able to get as much value out of tech trading (Noble AIs just don't research that quickly), so Alphabet and Aesthetics both become less useful. Writing into Mathematics would be the natural sequence here.

    In terms of production priorities, your second city needs a Terrace asap (I think you might found it a turn before Pottery, so just dump a single turn of production into like a warrior or something then switch the build next turn). Granaries make whipping population in slavery about twice as food-efficient; that's huge. And as Inca you even get some culture out of them too. It's a very powerful building and not too expensive to build. Your capital wants to finish that second worker, but then you need a third warrior and a Terrace. On Noble you can go worker => Terrace => Warrior. Worker => warrior => Terrace would be safer if you were worried about barbs, but non-animal barbs aren't gonna be showing up for a while on Noble. They never attempt to pillage improvements and conquer cities within your border until your continent has at least twice as many cities as players. On Noble, you will be expanding faster than any AIs, so you really don't need to worry about barbs at all until a while after you settle your second city. Be sure to pay attention to how your city governor is assigning tiles to be worked; your goal is to finish the warrior and the Terrace at or shortly after the city grows to size-4, so you can juggle which tiles are assigned a bit if needed to get more food or more hammers. You also don't really want to leave the gold mine un-worked, although potentially a single turn not on gold would be okay if it means getting the Terrace before size-4. Once you've got a size-4 capital with a Terrace, you're all set for your next settler. One forest chopped (20 hammers), a two-pop whip (60 hammers), and 20 hammers of slow production (~2-3 turns) gets you a settler.

    Worker management, you want to finish the current chop. Then the single most important / valuable tile to work will be the corn for the new city; your first worker should head that way after finishing chopping (it can reach the corn faster than the one finished in your capital). After the corn it wants to help the second city chop + whip + build a Terrace. Longer-term you're going to want gold, pasture pigs, and a pair of floodplains cottages for the capital (the new worker can work on those cottages), while your second city will want corn, cow, and a floodplains cottage.

    Warriors are going to want to keep hunting for potential new city sites; you'll also want to start putting some thought into positioning them for barbarian defense. Barbarians will never spawn on a tile visible to any player. They also won't spawn anywhere within a 5x5 box centered around any other units. So you can often space out warriors outside your cultural border in such a way that barbarians can't spawn in a big region, and if they do spawn they'll be closer to some AI player rather than you and hopefully leave you alone.

    That'd get you another ~15-20 turns down the line.
     
  15. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    I really loved how you describe why each tech should be and should not be researched
     
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  16. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    I think you have mistakenly viewed the previous picture because my capital has finished worker and that worker is already making cottage and first one has already left for corn
    Ok will build ganary in second city and first after warrior
    Both my warriors are doing that and will continue to do that
     
  17. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Got the second settler , made 2 more cottages in the mean time , got terrace in both , teching maths as recommended , warrior in tiwanku in 2 turns , open border with ethopia and america , thinking of going for 1N wheat to settle. Should i go for another warrior in cap cuz i would like it to grow a bit and library seems early and what should i do in second city. Thinking of masonry after this
    Spoiler :
    Untitled8.png
     

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  18. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    Ok - coming along.

    Capital probably should have grown to size 3 or 4 to work those flood plains you improved, and skipped the terrace until the 2nd settler was out. 1 cottage and 1 chop would have been better than 2 cottages that you weren't working right away. Capital can slow build a settler at size 4 without too much trouble. Then maybe when it gets to size 6 do a 3 pop whip of the library, and then probably never whip the capital again.

    I see that your second city is unhappy at size 3. What's going on there? Did you whip more than once? Looks like that worker in the 2nd city build the farm and chopped a forest. Is the border going to pop next turn? If so, good idea to be ready to improve the brown cow. But if it was hanging out there for a few turns waiting for the border to pop, you might want to ask yourself what else it could have done. Anyway, after the cow onto improving a FP or chop some of those forests into a 4th settler. That city will grow pretty quick, and you probably want that city to make the next settlers while the capital grows.


    As for tech - I'm not sure what to do after math. Your tech is fast, and don't have any immediate needs. Maybe head towards Code of Laws / Civil Service path.
     
  19. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Capital was at 4 , I chopped and whipped a settler and now thinking library to let it grow

    I only whipped once , extra unhappiness happend due to no warrior it is coming in 2 turns so it won't be a problem then

    Yeah border pops in next turn , I carefully assigns improvements now

    Yeah gold is awesome giving me tons of commerce
     
  20. SittinDown

    SittinDown King

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    ok - no major flaws here at this point, could be tweaking some stuff.

    • You probably want to have the capital worker down to improve the wheat when the settler moves out.
    • Until then, might as well have the new city work one of those FP cottages.
    • Probably want to go for another settler or worker out of city-2 once it's size 4.
    After Math, maybe metal casting, currency or construction.

    Fourth city spot is a little less clear.

    (4?) Sheep looks okay - but I can't see it that well. (5) Getting stone is a good one. (6) Cow / Gold city is a nice 2-population spot.
     
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