Nobles' Club 183: Mansa Musa of Mali

1665AD
Spoiler :
So I declared and took Tours (revolt, capture with tanks+cavs), but his culture remained so powerful that it surrounds the city, which is problematic. If I move into his culture, I'm stuck there on the next turn if he moves his +100 cossacks somewhere else. Didn't dare to risk that. Instead parked my main stack in the HE-city (pigs+corn+sugar+gold to the south of capital) where it's less than 10 tiles away from most places.

He re-captured Tours and moved his main stack towards Boston. So the desert just north of Chicago was dyed red with russian blood. :devil: Lost maybe 10 artillery, but managed to mop off at least 50 units.



Was also making headway on the western front with my secondary stack and soon captured an ex-Inca city with AP and tao shrine.

A small mystery that has me scratching my head. Can you build workshops on tundra? Top right where the black circles are implies yes, because I've built them. :) However can't build one to top left where the red circle is?!



Heal one turn and move again towards Tours now that his stack is mostly gone. I hit end turn in anticipation... What does deity AI have in store for me?

Spoiler :
I get AP-cheesed by Stalin! :lol: Except that I win. Hadn't even paid attention to that, just voted for myself instead of abstaining. So he called the AP victory vote to stop me from kicking his butt? Abstained too instead of voting for himself? Attaboy Stalin. :crazyeye:





Extremely anticlimactic, but what can you do. AP victory 1665 AD it is.

Save attached in case someone wants to keep kicking Stalin's butt. ;) Should be easy, but then there is the purple monster.


 

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Tundra workshops can be built on rivers or lakes, but not dry tundra..bit strange rule :)
I actually thought about that, but didn't mention it, because it doesn't seem to make any sense. :smoke:
 
About deity vs. immortal: prefer to play deity although I lose more often than win. So I alternate deity games with immortal or sometimes emperor to keep up the moral. It feels deity is the only challenge that I do not master yet, which makes it more interesting.

In this NC went for deity because of the incredibly good starting location. NC deity games are easier because (I think) we're really playing a noble map. Never seen a start anywhere like this on a roll of the dice deity map.

Spoiler And I've been lucky so far because: :

  • On my first attempt was beaten T65 by praetorians so had some advance knowledge on my second attempt
  • Second attempt skirmisher rush on DG was a real gamble
  • Knew in advance that De Gaulle had iron close which would make it worth a try (that's not luck but cheating)
  • DG had horses and defended his cities with as many chariots as archers. Without horse, and archers only, it would have been impossible
  • The recovery after the rush went fine, well that's Mansa for you (FIN: obvious, SPI: switch caste/slave every 5/10 turns really helps).
  • Got lucky with how religions panned out. JC being my biggest friend.
  • Cannot understand how I could possibly win Lib 900AD but I did. (Understand it a bit: diplomacy worked well to keep Julius, Stalin and Washing busy killing each other's units without winning a war; and HC simply had a pretty bad plot of land for him)
  • That said, do not think losing Lib would have made a great difference given the length of the game
 
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NC maps are often rather generous, I suppose to entice more people to play. I don't think there is such thing as a "noble map" or a "deity map" though. :confused:

I think deity is scary, but really fun once you survive the early troubles. On immortal AI vs AI wars are usually just some kind of stalemate with nothing really happening, while on deity they quickly build up big stacks and I've seen AIs (often Pacal :lol:) get knocked out of the game in the BCs.
 
How important is the switch from Farms + Cottages to Workshops once you get State Property? This is a move I've never tried before but I think I read somewhere it's good.
 
Like others, found some time this weekend to play and today to write it up.

Spoiler 1540AD-1645AD :
In previous episodes:
  • Rushed De Gaulle with skirmishers
  • Rolled over Huyana with cuirs (vassal)
  • Attack sitting duck with cuirs and finish off with rifles and cannons (peace with with one city on an island)
Have been relatively easy on the whip and was able to run science at 100% for most of these two wars. Have been running emancipation for the last stretch to keep my folks happy. That is going to change now: to communism, slavery, theocracy, suffrage (for culture and hammers).

Paris is drafting a rifle every turn. The food there is really infinite.
  • Orleans (HE + mil academy) is churning a cannon almost every turn.
  • The native Americans (incas and lakotas) provide very good whipping material (cavalry)
  • The home countries whip cannons.

With this setup, my 25 cities products about 10 units every turn. In other news, got all but two of the world's wonders :crazyeye: thanks to HC and SB :thumbsup:.

So who's next?
Washington was finally peace vassaled a few turns ago by JC (who is friendly and working on assembly line). Inevitable, glad it took so long. Stalin will be the easiest target. The poor sod doesn't have horses = no cossacks!

However, I'm betting all in. Julius got to go. Cannons, cavs and rifles against infantry and tanks!

1595 AD / T229
Switch to police state, free religion. The great communist fascist empire is ready to go!

Djenne.PNG

This is a personal matter between Julius and me. I've only ever settled one city in this game (and late at that) so it is ironic that's the one JC flipped. An evil deed that cannot go unpunished.

JC was kind enough to park his only boat in the Arctic sea right there! That sea is blocked from the rest by ice sheets so I don't need to worry about my seafood. JC will pillage the seas around SB's former territory but that's fine - the more ships he builds the better!

But first, settle an old score.
SB dead.PNG

Set aside some units to kill off SB. Don't want him to stir up my citizens. Not sure if these 12 units might not have been more useful elsewhere but so be it (it's a bit of overkill but couldn't know in advance how much was needed).

And here's the big one
Arpinum.PNG

Got 84 units ready to make a statement, and a continuous supply line to back them up. Will this be enough? We'll see...

My two spies in Arinum didn't help. One was caught and the other simply failed. Too bad. Got quite a few spies running around his land and have been collecting spy points on JC since day 1. So failure today == success tomorrow.

1600AD / T230
Arpinum down.PNG

After moving into his territory last turn, JC imediately hammered by a stack of mostly cavs. My rifles had them for breakfast. He also moved a considerable amount of non-upgraded rifles into the city. To no avail. Took the city, loosing about 30-35 units (mostly cannons).

Start removing all the roads around the city to mousetrap his stacks.

Next six turns (no screenshots)
JC sends another stack of infantries causing considerable damage but not too bad. Washington also sends a stack of rifles, cavs + 1 artillary, stopping dead on the road-free tiles. Eat that stack, losing only one cannon.

Reckon I killed over 100 units, lost about 60 but with supply coming in at a steady rate, still got enough units to make the next move.

1630AD / T236
Cumae.PNG

Left enough units in Arpinium to keep it safe (with roads blocked).
Ferried cannons and cavs to Djenne, which took Mediolanum (3 infantries + some spare change)
Crawled 58 units up to Cumae (the holy shrine). They're exposed but did not want to move on the hill (river penalty). Just love SOD's for better of worse. My spies in Cumae have all been caught :mad:.

1640AD / T238
Cumae down.PNG

There's SOD for you. Got a heavy beating by what was (hopefully) JC's last stack. Got the city but lost all my cannons. Seriously start doubting my fortune (and skills) now :cry:. Anyway, JC is two turns away from tanks and marines, making cannons less useful.

My dearest general Obelix died. With combat 6 + pinch, I'm sure he made a good dent in the infantries. Fortunately, his son Obelix II was born on the same turn (in Poverty City :confused:)

Not sure if it makes a difference on happiness but just in case:
Genghis.PNG

Putting the slightest pressure will bring GK at peace.
Unfortunately, my galleons are transported out of his borders right next to a Roman destroyer. Bye bye cannons.

It doesn't look good at all... but .. what are friends for?

1645AD / T239
He da man!

Stalin.PNG


And why is that a good idea? Because Washington broke free of Julius.
Washington.PNG

If Wahington wasn't free, Stalin would just be "helping" me by taking Washington for himself. In fact a few turns later he also dows him but I can bribe him out of that for 500:gold:.

IMO this is also fair.
Steam power.PNG

Infantries coming up!

Julius' spine is broken. It should be a matter of time now. Hang on a few turns, heal and reinforce.

(Reached max uploads, to be continued)
 
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NC maps are often rather generous, I suppose to entice more people to play. I don't think there is such thing as a "noble map" or a "deity map" though. :confused:

I seem to recall that map generator generates city spots and then assigns civs to cities, with the human player getting the worst city on deity (or something like that).
 
I seem to recall that map generator generates city spots and then assigns civs to cities, with the human player getting the worst city on deity (or something like that).
Hmm, I guess that is possible. Of course, determining "worst city" is not easy and I've seen some pretty great starts even on deity. Not to mention HOF starts, which are generated under the same rules. A game I just started:
Spoiler :
This has to be one of the best starting spots on the map.



How important is the switch from Farms + Cottages to Workshops once you get State Property? This is a move I've never tried before but I think I read somewhere it's good.
I didn't bulldoze over any mature towns, but even that can be good. State property is awesomeness especially if you have enough :) to run caste (to fight emancipation unhappiness). Biology farms are powerful too of course, so I tend to grow and then turn farms into workshops where needed.
 
Spoiler 1645AD-1715AD :
Julius is toast. His production machine is broken and Stalin is on my side distracting his units. Mopping up the Northern part of the Roman empire

1690AD / T48
Rome.PNG

After healing and reinforcing, split my one-and-a-half stack into three, leaving most cities poorly defended (betting that JC is on the defensive now).
Captured Rome with the biggest stack; Arretium with a slightly smaller one (but also big) and Neapolis with a spy and a small stacks of Cavs

Intermezzo
Ran some statistics in World Builder on how my inferior units will fare against his.
  • You loose 1.8 unpromoted cavs to kill an unpromoted tank. (That means: to kill 10 tanks, you need 28 cavs; 18 will die and 10 more are needed to kill them off).
  • Rifles against tanks: 2.6.
  • Cannons against tanks: 2.6 cannons will die to get a tank hurt enough to mop it up with a rifle free of charge (on average - RNG exceptions apply)
  • With collateral damage, cannons can still be useful against tanks, especially when machine guns are in the stack.
  • For cavalry against infantry the number is 1, which means 1 will die and another will be hurt killing it off but overall he looses one, I loose one so that's not bad. Marines are in between tanks and infantry.
Conclusion:
  • Build twice as much cavs per turn as JC builds tanks, marines and infantries. That's no problem with 25 cities to 9 (and my units are much cheaper). Do not expect JC to get more dangerous techs (well artillery but since AI don't know how to play siege, so what).
  • Cannons still needed to bombard (ran out of spy points), but suicide to create damage is situational. Better to keep them healthy to move from one city to the next without pause to end the war quicker. Too many deaths == lower war success rate, so JC won't cap quickly.
  • Rifles not very useful in battle now. Some will be held back to prevent revolts; others will be passive and wait for upgrade to infantry
1715AD / T253
Halfway there.PNG

Rolled up the Northern empire. Stalin has also picked up a city. JC down to 5 cities.

The only worry: JC may vassal to Stalin.

That's it for this weekend, it will probably be two weeks before I can pick up the game again :sad:.

 
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I didn't bulldoze over any mature towns, but even that can be good. State property is awesomeness especially if you have enough :) to run caste (to fight emancipation unhappiness). Biology farms are powerful too of course, so I tend to grow and then turn farms into workshops where needed.

Nothing brings more happiness than the whip! Keeps your cities small. Communism + biology = bliss.
(assuming your empire is yuuuge by the time you get communism)
 
Nothing brings more happiness than the whip! Keeps your cities small. Communism + biology = bliss.
(assuming your empire is yuuuge by the time you get communism)
Well, whipping/drafting is one way for sure. I guess I should have whipped in many cities where I didn't, considering that I had captured the Kremlin. Working 2:food:4:hammers:-tiles is definitely not bad though if you have enough happiness. For me the :)-issues started only in the final war and my economy was so strong throughout the game that raising the culture-slider wasn't a problem.
 
I'm aware of that, but think it's an odd rule.

Of course, it would be nice if the real world worked like that too, maybe there would be fewer wars waged by democratic countries.

It does work like that, cf. protests in many western countries against wars in the Middle East. Doesn't stop those wars though. Like civ players, real world leaders know how to deal with that (hit musicals, reality TV shows, sports events, computer games, jails, etc. keep us happy).
 
It does work like that, cf. protests in many western countries against wars in the Middle East. Doesn't stop those wars though. Like civ players, real world leaders know how to deal with that (hit musicals, reality TV shows, sports events, computer games, jails, etc. keep us happy).

There isn't much of that, at least not now, though admittedly there were huge protests prior to the invasion of Iraq. Didn't help a thing, but at least people cared.

Compared with the level in Civ4, however, countries should basically have stopped functioning with 11:mad: war weariness (can perhaps go back to Gandhi's strategy and make a case there).
 
Finally got over the line, in 1510AD.
Spoiler :
Briefly: Continued the assault on Washington. Took Philadelphia and Washington in the same turn, both huge, and the next turn he broke free from JC and capped. Surprised that JC didn't cap too then, as I had taken several cities from him and wiped his army. But I had enough land anyway, and also settled a few more cities in the north-west just in case.



Washington eventually bent the knee.


Capital.


Paris - HE.



Thought this turned out to be a pretty fun map. I don't have much time to play, but got through it in the end :)
 
Thanks for the map Pangaea! I think it was fun, too, and the map difficulty was just right.
 
Yes, I also enjoyed it a lot. Strong capital but cramped region, interesting diplo opportunities and a challenging final enemy.
 
So for a game like this, is it more fun to let the Ai come alive and a challenge rather than going for that kill early on? I think both require different types of skills. You need empire management skills for both.
 
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