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Nobles' Club 187 - Elizabeth of the English Empire

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by hankinsohl, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    IMM 700AD

    Spoiler :

    So, I am playing another NC game. This one is certainly challenging with the semi-iso start. I avoided early war with Ramses to rather be his "loyal" friend and trading partner (for now..hee hee). Semi-iso (or iso) means teching a lot of things yourself, but eventually I went both Alpha (since Rams seemed never to tech it) and Monotheism for the civic, while adopting Rams Hindu religion fairly early. Once he hit Friendly, trades were on, but as usual, most AIs will trade Monarchy regardless so I immediately traded Alpha for that, while begging Sailing off him. Then proceeded to the Optics line. Used 2 GSs (first one was for academy) to bulb Optics, and part bulb Astro, which is basically where I am now. Traded a few more things with Rams, including Compass for part-teched CS.

    Settled the obvious spots, but also just filled in spots. The river city near Rams, while no food, allowed for some cottaging. I pretty much new I'd find iron in the West spot. Held off from settling it for a long time but had a settler ready...just had to be some resources in the W coast since there was nothing around there.

    Rams is culture/wonder whoring like crazy, and he has founded 4 of the religions so far. He expanded quite slowly and eventually I built another settler or two and sent them way south. Funny, Rams was walking like 3 settlers around there but not settling, the whole time I'm moving my settler down there and then steal that fish corn spot. May also get the whale/horse spot. Not critical things, but I expect to own this continent one day.

    I'm pursuing astro, and now that I'm exploring E-W with caravels, that should allow me to get the gold fast to finish Astro and then pursue Lib. Met Joao and did a little trade with him. Tech situation seems okay, but Lib could be in doubt. Will need to pump out some more GSs, but food is not great here.

    Not sure I'll have the luxury of taking something nice with Lib, if I win it at all, but I think Astro more important here. Too bad I did not get another GS to full bulb it. But I think I will likely go for Cannons/Redcoats here vs. the usual Curs, since I like slow movers better for naval attacks. Worried about Rams culture overtaking me at some point, so he will likely have to die sooner than later.

    Spoiler mainland :


    I don't know why Rams wasn't settling cities with all the settlers walking around, though he did just settle the ivory city. I even had a settler standing right next to one of his on the spot I settled and he still did not settle.
    Spoiler south land :


    Spoiler joao :


    Spoiler tech :


    Spoiler diplo :



     
  2. Pedro78

    Pedro78 King

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    @unas876

    I'm probably not among the better players here, but I'll try to give a decent shot at this map and give a rather detailed write-up. A few things I can tell for now :

    Spoiler :


    When playing semi-isolation the best is usually to get early Astronomy so you can trade techs + resources and monitor what's happening on the other continents. Plus Astro gives a nice boost on research as well. The best way to get Astro is usually to double-bulb it (the Lib route is very slow when (semi) isolated).

    Here I would probably build the Great Library, get a few GS so I can at least bulb Optics + 2x Astro, maybe even bulb Machinery If I can get Ramesses to friendly quick enough so he trades me Calendar. Should be able to get pretty early Astro here.

    I would probably also skip CoL because being PHI + having the Great Library will be enough to get 4-5 scientists (Academy - (Machinery) - Optics - 2xAstro). Getting 5 scientists would probably mean that you need to get 2 from your capital and 3 from the GLib city (Cap - GL - Cap - GL - GL). If you intend to get CoL anyways, make sure to skip Meditation otherwise you will scew up your Astro bulbing path. Getting Taoism can be nice if you need the religion, but here Ramesses already has it, plus I'd run OrgRel for the diplo bonus to get him to friendly quicker.

    After Astro it should be pretty easy to catch up, having Lizzy + GLib really makes things easy in the mid-game.

    That's just a few random thoughts, there's probably several things I forgot to mention, hope this is helpful anyways :)
     
  3. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Unfortunately I don't have the time to play this, but
    Spoiler :
    It really shouldn't be that hard, taking our stellar traits into account.
     
  4. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Managed to have time to play a little further, to T83.
    Spoiler :
    Have expanded to six cities and got up a couple libraries. Will wait for one more before turning research back on. Sadly Ramesses won't open borders because I stole a worker earlier :( Partly due to that, I'm thinking about self-teching to Monotheism through Poly, which will hopefully be in time to get some failgold from Artemis. Have prioritised cottages, and have 4 cottages and 6 hamlets so far (but two cottages are currently not being worked). Thinking about putting another city down by the river. It can work some green cottages, but the downside is Ramesses got a holy city (the east gems spot), which will steal some tiles. Ramesses was late to his 2nd city due to the worker steal and warrior parking, and just recently got his 4th. Oracle was just built, and the Mids went pretty early. Maybe others have stone, but not marble? I can hope. Would love to get GLibrary here.



    Did play with the thought of a HA "rush" (lol), but should have committed to that earlier if I were to try it. Ramsy doesn't have metal yet, but I have to assume he will get it with his 4th city. Has IW too, and is chopping down jungle. Maybe a better approach is to sit tight, get Mono, eventually open borders, get religious spread, and tech up to Cuirs and take over the continent -- or bulb Astro and trade techs (and get good trade routes) with the other leaders.

    Thankfully we have two excellent traits to help us, otherwise this would have been very tricky. FIN means 3-commerce cottages after only 10 turns, and PHI means a GS after 9 turns. Yet to start on that guy, as the lousy happy cap is a serious hindrance. Will probably do it in the horse city once the library is up, as there is no whipping anger (then).

    Feels pretty awkward to be so close to 1AD and not yet have Math or Alpha or Currency -- basically just "backfill" techs so far :sad: And since I DOWed Egypt, even with OR + religion, it will be a tough ask getting to friendly, so tech-trading will be severely limited.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  5. MeowZeDung

    MeowZeDung Prince

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    Decided to give this a shot on Deity since Elizabeth is such a strong leader. To T95/500 BC:

    Spoiler :
    Settled 1S on the plains hill. Tech decision was tough after opening with Ag. I decided to delay BW in favor of AH in case there were horses in the unforested plains tile 1SE1S of my capital. The horses were just out of the BFC, but still in a good spot for a horse/pig/corn city that I settled 2nd and plan on making a GLib/NE GP farm. It has saved all but one forest for when I get literature.

    I was happy with Ag->AH, but Ag->BW might have been better. Not sure. AH meant delaying cottage development, and the barbs really weren't a problem so I think I over-prioritized revealing horses. Since aggressive REX was needed to cut off Ramses from the north of the continent, delaying cottages hurt bad. Things got dicey as I was saving up gold to research pottery, and I wasn't sure I could pull through. FIN coast was a lifesaver. Once cottages came online I started getting some good traction though. Will be settling a 7th city shortly. Some cities are nothing much to write home about, but I think I'll need all the commerce I can get from FIN cottages

    The REX also delayed libraries and scientists unfortunately. Hoping PHI will bail me out. First GS due in 8 turns. If I can pull of GLib with FIN/PHI I think I will be in a good position.

    Ramses is definitely in a position to run away with this game though. . . So much good land available to his south, and he got Stonehenge, ToA, and GLH as he founded two religions :crazyeye: He has not teched alpha yet in my game, so I can't see if he's gotten aesthetics. The fact that he founded Christianity makes me think that he doesn't have it yet and will go for the AP before thinking about GLib, so hopefully I will be able to trade techs before Optics (would AP religion temples be worthwhile with such poor production available, even without SPI?). Even if I can't use Aesthetics as trade bait, I don't see attacking Ramses as a great option at this point. Maybe cuirrasiers if there's iron in my borders? Although, I think it will be better to leverage Lizzy's traits, positive diplo w/ Egypt, and (hopefully) tech trades to get to Optics/Astro quickly and seek glory on foreign fields of battle with redcoats/cannons. Then again, this is Deity and I have no clue what I'm doing :lol: Just hoping to learn!


    Empire and cities:
    Spoiler :
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Meow:
    Spoiler :
    Wasn't it possible to trade for Gems? +1 :) is a big deal when you have no happiness yourself. Managed to do that in my game with pigs instantly when he was willing to open borders. Early in the game it's thankfully (usually) possible to trade health for happy.

    See you have cottage spammed too, which is the way I've gone as well (albeit at Immortal). Probably needed here, and with FIN it's much more comfortable than usually, even non-riverside.
     
  7. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Woof:
    Spoiler :
    I don't think settling that extremely marginal 7th city does you good. I'd rather go NE-NE-E from cap, that city can at least work the currently unworked corn.
     
  8. MeowZeDung

    MeowZeDung Prince

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    Spoiler :
    I should probably check on that trade! Happiness hasn't presented a significant problem yet, but it will soon as I am done whipping the capital.

    I've mostly only cottaged the capital's grasslands up until now, but I plan on spamming everywhere except the GP farm due to FIN and mediocre land.


    Spoiler :
    Bow wow. I agree it is quite marginal. The corn will be taken over by York ultimately as a GP farm though. Still, you have me strongly considering it. . . either way I get a few more cottages.
     
  9. MeowZeDung

    MeowZeDung Prince

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    To 50 BC:
    Spoiler :
    Well, that might be gg for me, atleast on Deity. Ramses got the Parthenon and GLib both this turn while I was about 2-4 turns away from chopping them out. I guess there's a possibility I could self tech Alpha before him, but I don't know if that'd be a worthwhile boost with only one trade partner. The economy is strong enough that I could comfortably get Monarchy and CoL for the Wine/HR and CS scientists. A better player could probably ride that to a cuirrasier breakout or Optics/Astro, but I don't think I'm quite there yet on Deity :sad: Edit: although. . . I will be getting quite a bit of fail gold. . . I might just try it yet.

    Would love to see some top players take this one down on Deity though :thumbsup:
     
  10. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl Warlord

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    Need some advice
    Spoiler :

    I prefer to win games via Domination or Conquest whenever possible. This particular game looks pretty hard to achieve one of those victory conditions - I could use some advice.

    Emperor, Normal, NH/NE.

    1802AD

    Recap of present situation:
    I settled in place, build 6 cities initially and was able to get Ramesses to Pleased for trades. I teched to Cuirassiers and DOWed on Ramesses. Ramesses refused to cap until he was down to 4 cities - at which point I decided just to kill him off for the nice cities he held. Along the way I won the race to Liberalism, was able to bulb Astronomy, was first to prove that the world is round, etc. Against Ramesses I held a substantial tech lead.

    It's now 1802AD though and the other large continent is a mess. Mehmed has capped both Joao and Charlemagne and he shares a religion with Stalin. So the question is, what's the best way to go about trying to win this game via Domination or Conquest? The Mongolians are no threat - I could take him out if that seems best, but Mehmed is the real danger. Moreover, Mehmed seems to be plotting on me (I'm his worst enemy).

    Land
    Spoiler :




    Diplo
    Spoiler :




    Tech
    Spoiler :




    I'm worried that if I attack either Stalin or Mehmed that they'll both DOW on me. I could try to flip Stalin into my religion but almost all of his cities are Hindu and I think he's got about 14 cities - so that would take quite awhile.

     
  11. unas876

    unas876 Warlord

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    @hankinsohl

    Spoiler :
    Looks like Mehmed is plotting on you, although he can plot at pleased and theres an outside chance he might be plotting on Genghis. Without any more detailed information I can say this much: if Mehmed is coming for that booty he can easily bribe Stalin and even Genghis in on you. Without the scoreboard I can't see how viable this is, but I think if you wanna get out of this pickle you might need to ask Stalin and Genghis for tribute. If that doesn't work though: you should have enough cities and tech lead to deal with it.
    Can't say much more apart from: its probably best to leave Genghis alone for now and mop him up last. Your tech lead shouldn't be wasted on a non-issue.

    The religion thing you suggested is probably both too late and not good enough. Stalin doesn't care about religion and he will follow Mehmed into war anyway unless forbidden by peace treaties.
     
  12. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Immortal 1AD
    Spoiler :
    Built an Academy with the first GS, while the 2nd sleeps in the capital. On the way to 3rd, with GLib in capital. A little unlucky with that one actually, because the capital will beat Hastings to a GS on the same turn Hastings would have got it. But no helping it now. Haven't completed NE yet, and I'm putting some hammers into it here and there, plus Parthenon. Some punk got a GE the same turn I teched Poly, so no chance to put hammers into Artemis. But maybe it was a blessing in disguise, as I was then tempted to retain most of the forests until Math. GLib out 2 turns after Literature. As you can see, Music is online next turn. Think I'll do Currency next. Unfortunately Ramesses is yet to tech Alpha, but it feels pointless to self-tech it. Won't be able to trade much anyway. Although Mono+Monarchy would help a great deal. He has done Calendar though, and I've gotten Gems+Sugar in trade. He just founded Christianity.

    Try to ignore the countless 'flags'. Wish there was a button to turn off those things. Closing in on 200 :science: without Buro, which is thanks to the numerous cottages.


    A juicy barb city in the south I'd love to get, but Ramesses would have to soften it up first. He refuses to do so. Ramesses has expanded a bit slow, and only has 6 cities so far, with the entire south unclaimed. Could certainly get Sailing and pop some settlers down there, but think I'll sit tight and get to Astro instead (or Cuirs, but leaning towards Astro).

     
  13. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    620AD. Astro. Time to meet some guys.
    Spoiler :
    Barb city still lives, and Ramesses expanded slowly. Up to 8 cities now, and he should fill out the continent sooner or later. I worked more on cottages, got several towns (including the cottaged wine). Finally Ramesses got Alpha too, and I was able to trade for Monotheism, Monarchy and Alpha. Need friendly relations for more. Could gift him something like MC and possibly become friendly, but don't think I can be bothered. He doesn't really have anything I urgently need anyway.

    Could have got Astro five turns earlier by bulbing Optics too, but didn't want to 'waste' 600 beakers. Doubled Astro this turn, and have some spare great people. Damn annoying, but got an 11% CrapArtist. With the free Music GA, that means I have one spare GS, and 2 (not so great) Artists. One is fine for a golden age, but with 2 GS I could have double-bulbed Education, or 1 GS into Edu and Philo (not yet founded).

    Tried to chop out MoM and almost managed, but some brute built it elsewhere :sad:. 3 GGs over yonder, so they're not choking each other hugging. Or maybe they are.

    An overview of the land so far. Two triremes just about out. Think Ramesses will complete AP next turn, or very soon. He's building something huge.

     
  14. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    1000AD. Immortal. Not much more progress tbh, but I've met all the AIs.
    Spoiler :
    The two caravels went in opposite directions and located the AIs. Genghis is isolated and backwards, and the only AIs that are keeping up are Joao and actually Ramesses. Mehmed is allright too. Charlie and Stalin are at war, and it looks pretty heavy. I can't see exactly where the action is, but it looks like Stalin is beating up Charlie. Kinda glad I traded away iron for a bunch of resources with Charlie. Maybe it means he has held on better. None of them have Feudalism yet.

    Ramsy finally softened up the barb city in the south-west, and I managed to steal it. Incredible how easily the AI kills barb units. Injured non-CR sword and axe still killed two more archers.

    Have traded a bit and got Edu (1 bulb). Joao founded Taoism, but I need Philo anyway and he won't trade it for half an eternity, so I'm doing it myself. Think I'll do Nationalism next, as I have some hope of beating Joao to Taj Mahal, and Lib doesn't look in dire danger. Not sure whether I want to go with Cannons or Cuirs. Did an 8-turn golden age with one of the great artists when CS was online. Ramsy build AP, and I became the president by 2 votes. Phew! (He's ahead now due to spamming cities). I'm building some AP-temples, and have whipped very little lately (because I had to try for the presidency).

    Looks like the continent is pretty big, so it will take a long time with cannons. But there will be pretty advanced units by the time I get there, so maybe Cuirs will mean too many losses for comfort. It's faster though, but I'm not sure which way to go yet. Have no army currently.

    The mainland/empire, and tech screen. Have a pile of gold because Joao finally completed Sistine, and I got ~750:gold: for it :)
    Spoiler :


     
  15. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    @hankinsohl
    Spoiler :
    Checked out your update since I know the map by now. Looks like Mehmed is plotting on you, given he has put the other guys under his wing, and is friendly with Stalin. BUT... You have Cannons and Rifles Redcoats! If he declares on you, and actually manages to land some units somewhere, he'll get bloody and blue-faced. Get out a bunch of cannons+redcoats, and you can take him and his friends down. Will take while, and make sure you keep teching, but I'm not sure how he can win. Maybe you can beat him to the punch, declare and take out his stack? Try to get on better terms with Stalin and Genghis between now and the (likely) war. Then you can at least beg some gold from them, and take them out of the equation, so you don't risk getting bribed into a virtual world war against you. Genghis should be willing to join the war on your side as well. Though he probably won't do much good.

    Heh, just noticed you are close to Infantry, when I was going to suggest going that route. And you are worried? You got this! Cannons+Infantry will tear these guys a new exit.
     
  16. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    IMM 1902 AD Culture victory.

    Spoiler :

    See previous page for my start.
    Cuir-rushed Ramses, teched until mass media and then went for culture.


    @Pangaea:
    Spoiler :

    I was in a similar situation and picked Cuirs to knock out Ramses. Ramses should be pretty weak, since he might still be expanding and since he builds too many wonders. He didn't have very big stacks when I attacked him. Probably best to do some scouting though.
     
  17. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

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    I was having a bad week, and so I gave this a shot on monarch. What followed was quite something else. Despite initially wanting to go space, I got an 1834 AD domination win.

    Spoiler :


    My friend offered to play through this map at the same time as I did, but he wasn't as good, so gave up when his HA rush failed. I, on the other hand, succeeded in rolling over Ramses, aided by chariots - partly because he'd only expanded to 3 cities on turn 80, and spent all his hammers building religious stuff. After razing his last city (1 pop, and at any rate it was too far so I'd re-settle later), I discovered that the continent was much larger and more lush than I expected. That was a surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.

    I initially planned to do a sub-t300 SV by building GLH, beelining astronomy, and rushing communism. Everything went according to plan (except bulbing astro, because I researched CS so the paper path was open, messing up the bulb order). No worries, though, I got astro by sheer beakers (having half a dozen coastal cities and three riverside science powerhouses will do that), and saved the GS for scientific method. After libbing communism and adopting SP, I started pumping out settlers, filling the continent with 21 cities in total.

    But everything changed when Mongolia attacked. Because it's pretty obvious what Temujin does to neighbors, I build 3 infantry about as soon as I got assembly line + rifling, and stationed them in the city I felt he was most likely to attack. My preparations paid off when I saw a fleet sailing towards me, but I doubted whether 3 infantry would be enough to hold off the onslaught as I saw he brought something like half a dozen galleons.

    ...Aaaaand my fears were unfounded, because of AI stupidity. The most advanced units he brought were keshiks, and he attacked all of them amphibiously...:rolleyes:.

    Now, as I mentioned, I was having a bad week. Depression worse than usual, just things not really going my way. So when, the Mongols declared war, I kinda...snapped. I shifted gears completely. Stopped building labs and started building infantry and artillery. On turn 220, with no army or navy to speak of, I decided I was going for a conquest victory. I was sick of the AI's BS game after game after game, and I decided right then and there that every single one of them would pay for their repeated transgressions and unceasing antagonism.

    I started by spamming galleons, infantry, and artillery while teching combustion for tanks. My first fleet took Genghis by surprise and his longbow-defended cities fell quite easily to a pure infantry assault (no matter how many bonuses you stack, 20 >>> 6). I was forced to wait for reinforcements to take his capital, including that of a single tank. Yes - I had researched combustion. And I was ready to unleash ****.

    After I trashed half his empire, Genghis capitulated. But my bloodlust could not be sated. The beast inside was already let loose - it could not be uncaged. And at any rate, it would've been faster to win domination anyways seeing as how unsuited my cities were for building SS parts, but also how technologically backwards the other AIs were - the third continent had been embroiled in an unending religious war, slowing down the progress of anyone involved.

    I first conducted a three front attack on Stalin, assaulting Yekaterinburg, Moscow, and Assyrian (where his main stack w-s) all at once. I succeeded in baiting his entire army to attack my infantry and tanks, losing only two soldiers but killing over half his main stack. Moscow and Yekaterinburg, lightly defended as they were, fell easily. But there was a complication: Mehmed had a defensive pact with Stalin, and now had was also at war with me. I had transports now, so I had a monopoly on the sea. So, while he sent his cuirs against my city garrison infantry to die en masse, I snuck half a dozen tanks and capped Istanbul. Shortly after I actually took Assyrian, both AIs capitulated.

    I amassed my forces for a final assault on the HRE, but unbeknownst to everyone, I also had assembled a dozen tanks on transports to attack the Portuguese capital as well, at the same time - with another dozen tanks on the way. I easily stormed the HRE after taking them by surprise, and then baited their main stack into attacking my 4 tanks. I lost 3 tanks but, again, killed half their entire army. After upgrading to mech inf, I easily cleaned up. On the Portuguese side, I had taken one of their core coastal cities and was en route to Lisbon - he had a machine gun by now, but it was too little, too late. His large cavalry stack also appeared on the horizon, but for some reason, he didn't attack. That was Joao's last chance to stop me. I took Lisbon, getting both Portugal and the HRE to capitulate - winning a t287 domination victory (which somehow triggered over the conquest win that I was expecting). I was kinda bummed that I didn't get to use nukes, though.

    The ironic thing was that I won at least 10 turns faster by conquest than I could ever hope by space, most likely. And to think, all this started from frustratedly lashing out against an AI which ruined my peaceful builder's game. So, if anything's to be learned here...I guess it's that I have no control over my emotions whatsoever, but that might not always be a bad thing?

    EDIT: What helped the most was learning that alt+click builds something indefinitely in a city, and also you can set waypoints by ctrl+click on a city and then shift+rightclick on any point. Saved me a lot of painful micro...especially telling 50+ tanks where to go when they were first built.

    EDIT 2: Apparently I also forgot to build the heroic epic, at all, throughout this entire game. Derp.

     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  18. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Well done! A tactic I sometimes use in a case like this is to raze all enemy cities on the foreign continent. This means the AI never has a target to counterattack, and your tanks don't have to defend. (Obviously, with infantry, it can be worth it to defend. Esp. if it is a hill city and you've given one of them city garrison promotions)

    They do get angry at you in this case, I'm not sure how that affects their willingness to capitulate.
     
    Fish Man likes this.
  19. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

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    That might've been a good idea, but I kept those cities since with SP they still gave a net positive on commerce (sometimes with trade routes alone). Also, them trying to take the city back was sometimes a good thing, because then they throw units at mine in the field and suffer at least a 4:1 loss ratio instead of holing behind their 60%+ cultural defenses. Not that these matter much, considering it was mostly tanks against rifles at this point...

    Thanks for the reply!
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  20. Metaslab

    Metaslab Chieftain

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    IMM 1350AD

    Spoiler :

    Have taken Ramesses as a vassal, and preparing for intercontinental war. First target will be Joao.

    The Parthenon got built in 520AD, 1t after my last update, and then Ramsy built Sistine in 660AD, which together gave me enough :gold: to tech Lib to within 1t, then go straight through Nat at 100%. Lib->MT in 960AD. I still had enough :gold: left to continue with Gunpowder, and change from that to upgrade a few of the HAs I'd been building. Spent a few turns running 100% :gold: for more upgrades, and whipping cuirs. Attacked in 1120 with a stack of 9 cuirs and 12 HAs, which I split between Heliopolis and Memphis, which were defended by 1 pike and 3 LBs, and 2LBs and a WE, respectively. They fell easily. In general I used HAs for mop-up duty and upgraded survivors as I went along. Also built Taj in 1130AD. Took 7 cities before he was willing to cap.

    During war prep Ramsy teched Optics, which I got from him in 980AD. Sent some caravels out and met Joao on the ocean in 1070AD. He was worryingly advanced, already had Astro and was a good 400 pts ahead of Ramsy in score. He also took an instant dislike to me, bad first impression plus heathen religion. My worries were eased a bit once I'd met the rest of the AIs and saw that they were comparitively backward. Got circumnavigation 1150AD. Joao DoWed me in 1180AD, I responded by bribing Genghis on him. He landed a few catas which I easily took out, and then took peace for 5 :gold: in 1220AD. He's still at war with Genghis.

    This turn I got SciMeth from Joao in exchange for Constitution, after putting 1 bulb into it. He already has Communism, Physics and Biology. Stalin already got Econ, so my hopes of getting a non-scientist GP to go with the GS I have sitting in London for another GAge are dashed. Diplo is a bit of a mess too, because most people hate my Egyptian vassal. Joao still doesn't have MT though, so I'm heading for Rifling, hoping I can attack with a military advantage. Set Ramsy on Steel, but he's not going to be able to tech anything in a useful timeframe.

    Will be interesting to see how the different tech paths play out. I have 5 more cities than any other AI, and a tech lead on everyone except Joao, so that seems pretty good. But income took a big hit during the war, because I had no trade routes other than with Ramsy. I only got Astro in 1300AD, so I have no navy to speak of. Maybe priotitising Astro would have got me to a similar position, and maybe a better tech outlook, around the same time.

    I've also just realised that I haven't built the HE anywhere. I often seem to forget about it when I can't build it early, and don't get a unit of sufficient level until my first war. There aren't really any obvious candidates. London would be able to start pumping units very quickly, but maybe I want Oxford there? Not sure if it's worth the 19-20 turns it would take. I'd like to build it on the west coast so it can accelerate the navy, so maybe Nottingham. Giza could be a good candidate with its two seafood, 2 :hammers: city tile (Ramsy settled on copper) and 3 grass hills, but it only has 2 pop and no barracks.

    The newly-expanded empire, with bits of Portugal and Mongolia visible:

    Spoiler :


    Tech situation:

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