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Nobles' Club 187 - Elizabeth of the English Empire

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by hankinsohl, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2001
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    Seattle
    I really enjoyed this map. It was very, very challenging for me and forced me to better my play.

    Emperor - NH/NE - Accidental Dipolmation 1980
    Spoiler :

    I always try to win maps via conquest/domination. So having wiped out Ramesses early on, I pursed an aggressive strategy even though it might have been easier to win Culture/Space.
    ===============
    I was well on my way towards a conquest victory when I accidentally won a Diplomation victory :).

    This map was extremely challenging for me for the following reasons:

    1) Semi-isolated meaning limited trading potential.
    2) UI on same land mass settles initially towards you limiting you to about 6 cities initially.
    3) Although the capital is nice and maybe 1 or 2 other cities are nice, the remaining initial cities on the starting land mass are very poor.
    4) Very delicate balance of power on the 2nd main continent means that you really need to be careful that no one gets a vassal and just takes off in power. I had to play very carefully to avoid this, several times needing to trade techs to broker peace and needing to beg for gold for peace in an attempt to prevent peace vassalation - I've never done this before and I needed to reload at several points to correct obvious errors on my part.
    5) Once I took out Ramesses, I thought that I could run a religion with complete impunity given that I was on a completely isolated continent. I found that this wasn't the case at all - running my own religion resulted in my being the most hated enemy/target of multiple AI's - by way of contrast - not running any religion meant that I was never declared on other than a peace vasslation error on my part.

    An aside - I think it's best to discover all AI's at a semi-early stage if isolated/semi-isolated and then try to dogpile someone on the other main continent since you won't be in possition to tackle the other contintnent's leader most likely. The trick is to cap a few weaker AI's on the other main continent while preventing the other power houses from capping anyone else - this game was the first time that I tried this.... and I had to reload several times to correct errors.

    2 and 3 means that, IMO, you need to take out Ramesses as soon as possible. 6 cities, only 3 of which are nice, handicaps you too much.

    So, an early HA rush is in order - scout the enemy territory and build a lot of HA for the rush.
    =========
    Once you wipe out Ramesses (be sure to leave one city and trade for a bunch of techs before wiping him out entirely), it's a bit tricky.

    I opted to tech to Literature and build the Great Library and Parthenon - both of which work nicely with the Philosophical trait.

    From there I grabbed CS (I was careful to cottage my capital using an extra city with shared tiles to maximize cottage development) and then bee-lined optics.
    ========
    For me, the hardest part of the game was keeping the other continent in check.

    It was very helpful discovering all other AIs early on before anyone vasselled - and from there it was trickier still.

    Peace vassilation was a risk; as was vasslation due to warfare - I had to trade techs to broker peace on behalf of weaker AI's on the other continent on several occasions - and I lucked out that peace vassellation did not occur once I joined the fray.

    I had to reload at several points in the game to correct vasslation errors.
    =======================
    Some other key points....

    Cottaging everywhere is a viable strategy for conquest at least if you're financial. In fact, this was far better than State Property for me. I teched to Communism and built The Kermlin and then just gold-rushed a ton of buildings/units. This was far better than State Property because I avoided the huge Emancipation penalty incurred from going SP and I was able to build factories and coal mines while going Environmentalism. Kremlin plus factories/coal mines meant that my tech rate was always superior to any opponent and my production rate was also far better than any opponent. In fact, rushing production with gold was far better than State Property.

    I think that SP is very nice if you can end the game before Emancipation cripples you - otherwise, if you're financial, I think that cottaging plus Kremlin is a far better strategy.
    =====================
    Anyhow, this was by far the most challenging civ4 map I've tried - and I learned the most from it.

    I hope you too enjoyed this map.
    =====================
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  2. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2001
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    Seattle
    @"elitetroops
    Spoiler :

    Whatever you do in Civ4, never ever spend time worrying about an AI invasion. The AI is utterly worthless at those and won't pose a threat. If they ever send some silly units, you can laugh at them a bit before killing them and going on with your own business.

    Looked at your game and it seems you've fallen into the traditional cuirs/cannons trap. Don't combine those. If you go for cuirs, forget about Steel and tech straight to Rifling for Cav upgrades. If you go for cannons, forget about MT and tech straight to Rifling to draft Redcoats. Now you have an army of fast mounted units that apparently is moving very slowly. You got MT over 70 turns ago but the first AI isn't dead yet. 70 turns should be enough to cap the entire world.

    For faster warfare, you just have to keep constantly moving. That stack of cannons in Akhetaten should certainly not be healing. They should be heading straight towards the next target. Wounded cannons are just as effective for bombardment and there are plenty of healthy cannons to deal collateral damage. Cuirs could heal a turn or two and still catch up with the cannons. Though in this particular situation I would rather move out immediately with the stack of cuirs (including the wounded ones) and forget about the cannons. The cuirs and cavs you have down south should be enough to finish Rammy in 2 turns. (Yup, :egypt: dead t257, no problem.) Overall, heal less and move more aggressively. And don't leave strong units behind defending conquered cities! Having cuirs and cannons stand around as military police is a massive waste.

    You don't seem to be whipping much at all. Instead you have lots of workshops that gain +1:hammers: from Caste. Caste would be the stronger option here.

    And yeah, lumbermills suck bigtime. Having unchopped forests around your capital this late is a crime. :old:
    ==============
    Reply...

    Good call on lumbermills - I didn't realize that they were so bad. Chopping is much better.

    RE cannons/cuirs trap - the game you loaded is a bit misleading - I was pure curis/cavalry for awhile until I started taking huge losses. I then went cannons, intending to go cannons/infantry but had a lot of left over curis/cavalry.

    Anyhow... I found that going SP for this map was far weaker than simply cottaging and grabbing Kremlin - rush buying units as financial was about twice as good as SP for me given that I was unable to conquer enough opponents before huge Emancipation unhappiness kicked in - added to this is the possibility of easily building coal mines while going Environmenalism. Financial + Kremlin + Factories + Coal Mines - just crushes any AI in games that last beyond the point where Emancipation unappiness overwhelmes you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  3. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,455
    Location:
    UK
    Still playing here.

    Spoiler 1390ad. :

    Finally got to cuirs. Declared on JoaII have taken 3 of his biggest cities including his capital. He has 7 more.

    JoaII and Mehmed are the tech leaders here. Mehmed is closing in on RP.

    Mehmed and Stalin have been at war with HRE for ages now. They have 11/9 cities each. HRE has 5 cities left. Only person not at war is the Mongols but they have a red fist.

    Could leave the mongols and get land from the other AI. Otherwise I need a fleet for the mongols. Might be quicker capping the AI here. See what happens.

    I currently have 32 cuirs. Some leaving their homes on 7xp already.


    Spoiler 1450ad :

    Long old haul. JoaII down to 1 city. He only ever had a 6-7 strong stack. Up to about 46 cuirs now. Lost 4 on his latest 2 cities. His final city should be relatively easy. HRE vs Stalin and Mehmed is still ongoing.

    Will build up a stack for Mehmed next once healed up. Should be able to throw 2 decent sized stacks at him. Hopefully his forces are busy with HRE. Might take a peek to see what they are up to. Land wise wiping out JoaII was a good idea. Avoiding a mongol fight would be good.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  4. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    22,455
    Location:
    UK
    Long slog but finally finished.

    1585 domination.

    Spoiler 1585ad finish 138k score :


    Well that was a long fight with mehmed. He had cuirs, cannons and his UU. I just kept whipping cuirs on my home continent and shipping them across. He started off with 2 mini stacks of 10-12 units. I was able to take these out quickly. It was then a case of getting past his 6-7 strong unit defences in each city. Not helped by CI wonder giving him 25% bonus. Eventually got him down to 3 cities and he capitulated 1 turn before he got rifles. Mehmed knows how to whip units!

    Russians were a different story. Muskets and cuirs in defence. One stack which did nothing with till the end when I wiped it out near mainz. Could of taken Moscow but I was already across the line. 102 cuirs built. 66 lost.

    Overall tough game at start. Little commerce and some difficult choices to make early on. Once you clear the Egyptians you do get some nice land and resources. I would of liked to have reach cuirs and galleons much sooner.

     

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