[BTS] Nobles' Club 193 - Catherine

[intutama]

Sorry everyone I got a little bit demotivated... I did reach Engineering and whip-finish forges then whip a first stack of trebs, but then Gilgamesh wanted to have my 500 gold... I declined and he declared war (I thought whatever, I was going to attack him anyway, although since I was going to attack him, maybe I could instead give money then get my money back for peace). Problem is that the turn after Ragnar also declared on me... And I Can't defend myself from 3 directions at the same time

So I'm reloading to see if I can change something... I have to go back in time because I rage quit and my last save is from turn 129 (attack on Uruk) :/ well this won't be a perfect one-try deity game, but I'm learning a lot thanks to mr. Olafeson and Anysense.

PS:
@Anysense: how the hell do you get a 300AD Cuirasier? I randomed a nice map yesterday with an easy civ (I think greek, anyway cultural and spirituous I think - +100% toward GP ) and even there I don't think I can reach minus 600AD - even 800AD for me is good. I have early stone in this game, and marble can be gotten a little bit later.
To reach early cuirasser I would try to get Music first, use the GA once I got Philosophy+CS to get 2 or 3 GS and build forges in other cities, beeline nationalism, bulb to liberalism, pick Military science for free, and finally tech gunpowder, but to do all this take time... Maybe I'm not working my capitol enough :/

 

[Anysense]

Actually, it was 200AD Lib->Nationalism, 375AD MT, 500AD Gunpowder and 680AD DoW. So its 680AD cuirs and your attempts aren't really bad in comparison. A lot depends on the circumstances, in this game it was a bit of everything: some cottages, some specialists, build research/wealth, Golden Ages, tech trades.
Now its time for some planning. I have to make several very important decisions and for that I need at least rough plan.
First, how many turns to finish research? Unless I forgot something, the remaining techs cost is 81120*0,8=64896. With current tech rate it will take [64896/2900]+1=23 turns to finish research. I need to take into account that I will have another GS with ~95% chance, which will pprovide ~2500. Then, I have 4 GP's for another GA, that is further several thousand through both hammers and commerce.
A lot of hammers will be spent on labs and SS parts. I'm going to build 11 labs (2750) that will add ~180/turn for 17-19 turns, thats 3240 in total over the period when research matters. Opportunity costs for parts are roughly 11000 before research is finished.
Looks like its 24 turns to reach final tech and 25 turns to launch, that is 1690 AD launch, 4 turns better than my best so far.

Research path.
Aparently, Ecology should be last. It does not unlock anything and Life Support is easy to one turn.
Fusion->Ecology? Researching Ecology will take 3 turns, meaning that with this research order I will have to finish both Engines in 4 turns. Moscow and Eridu can do it, but where will I build Life Support in one turn?

Rostov can yield up to 89 base . LS there is 1000/3.6=278 base, that is I need at least 189 overflow in order to finish it in 1 turn.
Current plan is: build lab with 47of, put 47+72 into Nuclear Plant (119 base cost). Prebuild an SS part, get somwhere overflow enough to finish NPP with 119of (max), finish the part with at least 190of; that can be something like 1199/1200 Thruster or Casing, whatever; finally use that overflow to build LS in 1 turn.

Engines 517 in Moscow (cap) and 445 in Eridu (IW). Both will peak just above 90 without straving too much.
Moscow can do 97 while starving ~10, but who cares? Its only for 4 turns. I need at the very least 517-97*4=129 overflow in Moscow. Better 140 to be sure. For that, again, I need a prebuild part, otherwise I would have to build something rather expensive fopr the sake of 4 turn Engine. For instance, Synagogue is only 116 base in the capital.
In Eridu I need only 445-100*4=45 overflow which is easily arranged.

 

[intutama]

So now I'm at turn 141

Spoiler :

Did pretty much the same thing as in my original try, except I'm teching directly toward Engineering without going CS first... Since Gilgamesh would give me a nice deal for peace after taking Uruk (peace without anything else), I moved my stack to Lagash to try to "pressure" him (does this even change something?) and ended up taking the city as it wasn't that much defended, so I could take it with 1 catapult and 7 WE, most of which died.
I can peace him for a lot... I'm going to try to vassalize him instead... Get engineering, pray that someone will trade for Feudalism (Egypt hopefully) and try to vassalize the dude... Worst case I still can take another city from him on the "good" side of the continent.

Edit: oh anysense is going for space win nice to see some maths, I think it's a fun part of playing higher difficulty that it is worth it making such calculations

 

[Anysense]

Research plan by turns (its 223 now).
226 Superconductors
230 Genetics
233 Satellites
237 Composites
240 Fiber Optics (part bulb with GS)
244 Fusion
247 Ecology
Genetics. Gives 3 which amounts to 6 in every city with at least 3, because it enables some replacements like: farm->workshop, farm->watermill or watermill->workshop. It will net ~120/turn for ~15 turns, until I begin starving my cities and food does not matter much anymore. Thats about 1800 hammers! Or beakers. That's the main reason for early Genetics along with Stasis becoming very easy.
I thought of Fusion->Composites->Ecology for easier Engines, but then I'd have only 4 turns to build 5 Casings, which does not seem easy at all.

I have 11 turns between Superconductors and Composites to build Labs, Thrusters, Stasis and start on Docking Bay. That more than enough. After that I will have 11 turns to finish 5 casings and other parts. Both Thrusters and Casings can be built in arbitrary cities.
How do I use my last GA? It will last 12 turns (thanks, Gilgy, for MoM!). I'll need it soon to get a GS in time to bulb Fiber Optics, I won't be able to bulb Fusion because of Lasers. Better use it before I finish research, anyway, because the bottleneck is research, not parts. Should I start it now? I would have to redo math for Rostov then.
Any use for a free GE?

Cristo Redentor.
Representation would nice but I can't do without +8 in IW city, some other cities will become unhappy as well.
A couple turns in OR would save me some hammers on laboratories and nuclear plants... And raise maintenance. The benefit seems rather small.
Slavery? Apparently, I don't need prewhipped stuff like WT does. Simple chain overflow will do. Besides, the main bulk of my bpt comes from workshops, not corporatiopns, and depends on Caste.
Not much for 1000.

Edit: If get a GS in St. Petersburg in 11 turns, I'll have a chance to pop another GS in Pskov. Might be worth it. Or should it be Pskov first? It has more G points now and SPb is NE city. SPb will produce another GS faster than Pskov once GA has ended.
Attached save made with BUFFY 3.19.003

 

[intutama]

Turn 141 - 162

Spoiler :

Gilgamesh is pretty much KO now. He moves a mini stack but I can deal with that. I got Engineering, but no one will trade Feodalism with me my crappy tech choices continue. So I tech Feodalism (4-5 turns) and go fo the last city in his core. Hopefully with this capture I will be able to capitulate him. I'm kind of worrying that someone else caps him... My economy is doing okay-ish thanks to selling techs for gold, and very good gpt deals.

Once reaching the "last" city it turns out to still have many defense. I have to bombard it to 0%, and I bring some more units, so it took ages to capture... Turn 162 it finally falls. Gilgamesh has only 4 cities left, but still won't capitulate. I might try rushing a bunch of units to see if he capitulates afterwards. Or in fact I'll probably just finish him.

During this time I completed NE in Moscow and I got a GS which I used to bulb Education. So I have education in 3 turns (165/about 1060AD). For the moment only Joao has it (edit: and another guy), so I hope to make nice trades from it. Then I think I'll go Gunpowder -> cannons... Unless someone else has a better idea

Overview of the captured land - Uruk has only 3 populations as I whipped it a lot (because of revolt and defense against a stack). I'm working 2GS in hope to have better chances in 9 turns, and I'll also try to convert the city to buddhism so that it gets the +100% bonus from the according civics.

I'm building Axeman in some cities for defense, so I can free the currently defending WE in these cities. I'll also whip trebs in other cities as soon as I have Education.

Tech situation...

Score overview...
2 civs of same religion going runaway I guess I'll have to do my best so that these 2 guys become enemy... Ask to stop trading and so on... But will they accept?

Well we'll see how it turns out. I'm playing a bit more relaxed now as I reloaded already, but still I want to try to win this game.

 

[Anysense]

Perhaps Gilgamesh isn't worth vassaling. Brennus and Suleiman have different religion and, probably, hate him.
Only Gilgamesh and Ragnar have Divine Right. Can you take it in a peace deal and trade it around? This war lasts way too long.

 

[Olafeson]

@intutama

ah sad to hear. You had a good run during your first elepult attack, yeah sometimes you just have to give in to their demands even when it hurts.
The classical backstab.

 

[intutama]

@Anysense: I fired a emperor game / no barbs to see how fast I could tech Cuirassier... I only managed 600 AD

 

[Anysense]

Now you only need to repeat it on Deity with barbs. Might have tried it on this map, you know that it is possible here, unless you get attacked early. So far only Pangaea got early DoW this map. I, on the contrary, got very lucky with Suleiman going after Hatty and leaving all the barb cities on our border to me. You see how random factors shape the game?
Edit: That is, if you don't do as well as I did, it does mean that you went wrong somewhere, not necessarily. Besides, my game isn't exemplary, a more adept player with any luck could pull off a pre 1600 AD launch or 1200 AD domination.

 

[Anysense]

Finally, I made 4 turns.
Research institute provides 2 free scientists; I counted beakers they produce but forgot about GP points. Three cities with contaminated GP pools are going to pop an undesirable GP in 7 turns. Luckily, I only will have to turn a free specialist in Lagash into citizen and starve Pskov a little bit more than I planned in order to get a GS there in 6 turns. Then St. Petersburg will have starve 11->7 to get another GS.
Traded Comuters for Mass Media+40 gold with Ragnar. Next turn Suleiman gave me 610 gold for Mass Media, he is a life saver!

Reviewed plans for parts.

Eridu. Build Hospital->Institute with 51 overflow and keep building research till Fusion.
Fusion 51+97=148/445 Engine, -5 at this point
F+1 148+97=245/445, -5
F+2 245+101=346/455, -7
F+3 245+101=447/455, -7
Too close and I need at least 24 stored. There still will be two watermills and pigs that can be workshopped, thats +8 base hammers which I can throw in if I'm all of a sudden a few hammers short.

Moscow. Now that I'm in GA, Moscow can prebuild NPP 95/97. Prebuild a Thruster ~290/293.

F-2 95+91=184/97 NPP, 96 overflow, because 96 is max for a nuclear plant.
F-1 96+91+290=477/293 Thruster
Fusion 184+91=275/517 Engine
F+1 275+91=366/517
F+2 366+91=457/517
F+3 457+91=548/517
That is a good marging and I won't even have to starve Moscow to do it.

Plan for Rostov is a mess. Can't proceed without fixing that.

Other cities won't require much planning, I just need to make sure that I don't waste hammers finishing parts with large overflow which I have no use for.

 

[Anysense]

I've been teching faster than I anticipated. Composites on turn 235 instead of 237 and I will have another GS just in time to double bulb Fiber Optics. When I start on 5 casings and GA ends my research rate will drop dramatically. Still I expect Fusion 1 turn earlier when I estimated 10 turns ago.

Spoiler :

 

[Anysense]

Final tech dates
Real/Expected
226 226 Superconductors
230 230 Genetics
232 233 Satellites
235 237 Composites
237 240 Fiber Optics (initially anticipated only 1 bulb)
242 244 Fusion
245 247 Ecology
246 248 Launch
Apparently, I was mistaken by ~7000. Well, the sooner I leave that mad world the better. Suleiman and Ragnar launched a full blown world war. And when I bribed Ragnar out of that war he decided to show barbs whos daddy and nuked them.

 

[Olafeson]

lol, nuking barbs. Serves them right.

Congratz to your spaceship win. Did you manage to set a new personal record for launch date?

 

[Anysense]

Yep, its 1680 AD now, 6 turns earlier. Could be better if I did not waste time trying to win the AP vote. Still that was a good practice. Absolutely necessary if I want to play with intention to win Space. Perhaps I will generate a strong start with handpicked leaders to try and get a 15xx launch. It makes sense now that I have experience.

 

[elementoffear]

@intutama @Anysense : Thank you for the write ups, I read all of them in one setting, and it was a Jason Bourne novel... biting my fingernails as to what will come next.

I'll take another opportunity to ask maybe you deity guys want to host a twitch stream of the next game with live questions from audience, I think it could be a really cool experience for everyone and probably would make your life easier without all the detailed writing.

 

[Lain]

Not sure about the stream thing. But I made playthroughs of most recent NC games and working on this one, too. Trying to answer most questions aswell .