1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[BTS] Nobles' Club 200 - Willem of the Dutch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Fish Man, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Sweden
    Spoiler T64-T106 :


    I start by gifting marble to Pacal. The only thing he can use it for is to build ToAR. And I wouldn't mind if me build a couple of nice wonders tbh.
    I don't use it, and it can help get him to friendly quicker.
    Civ4ScreenShot0019.JPG

    My workboat is continuing it's journey, and it seems Pacal are having a party for the barbarians! :) Glad that they move to him and not to me!
    Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG

    Oh oh! They are comming for me again as well! The western side of this continent must be really huge.
    Civ4ScreenShot0022.JPG

    Finally Pacal is starting to send some happines up my way! :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG


    A couple of turns later I revolt:
    Civ4ScreenShot0024.JPG

    Workboat finds something interesting, an workable ocean tile that is not reachable my my land. This indicates an other landmass. Is this the way toward the other AIs?
    Civ4ScreenShot0025.JPG

    I have OB and sailing. I can trade resources but I don't get traderoutes. Whats up with this? O_o
    If I try to initiate new trades I see "No avilable traderoutes" and next turn I lose my resource trades.
    Perhaps a barb city spawned?
    Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG


    Pacal changes civics to HR and Vassalage at T83. Oh, so he has gone for feudalism before Alfabet? Thanks alot! >_<


    When I cave in and start to self-tech alfabet, he goes there too. PLEASE!
    Civ4ScreenShot0031.JPG

    Alright, T90 and I finally get something out of my precious MC.
    Worth it going for oracle? NO. :D
    Civ4ScreenShot0032.JPG

    GArtist in a far away land. Probably the music one.
    Also a great general! Nice nice!
    Civ4ScreenShot0033.JPG


     
  2. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Sweden
    Spoiler T64-T106 Continued :


    Pacal is friendly, and I'm going for CoL to trade with him.
    I also have finished a forge in my rather food-starved marblecity.
    I assign the engineer with the vain hope of getting an engineering instead of a prophet.
    (I could not speed ahead with another city and get a GSci first. Was too darn slow getting my libraries up. :(
    Civ4ScreenShot0034.JPG

    At T99 I beg Pacal for half of Polytheism. ToAR has not been built yet(!) I hope I can get some failgold.
    I was planning to tech monotheism to be able to bulb Theocracy but my techrate is so slow and I didn't want to go the extra detour to monotheism. So I settled the guy. The extra 5 gold per turn, and the extra two hammers in the capital doesn't hurt.
    With my luck, pacal would probably be 1 turn away from finishing theocracy if I did bulb it as well!
    In hindsight, I should probably have done a golden age with him to get some scientists out.
    Civ4ScreenShot0035.JPG

    Pacal seem to be going for CoL. Argh! I'm not getting full value for it.
    I spend one turn into Aesteth and I do get it.
    Probably should have taken IW, but I felt my techrate was really bad. I need all possibilities for failgold that I can get.
    Civ4ScreenShot0037.JPG


    Here is the empire overview at T106.
    Will settle a city in the west and have a WB ready.
    Building parthenon and ToAR for failgold in my two strongest hammercities. All other cities are still developing.
    Soon stone will be online and I'll be able to start building pyramids and citzen itza and moai for more failgold.
    Will probably refrain from whipping now and focus primarily on commerce (fin coast is nice!)
    Chances are high I'm way behind schedule for optics.
    Feel like I have had maximum bad luck with pacals teching choices. Him first not going for alfabet and instead picking up trash such as feudalism. And when I finaly go for alfa he goes there too.
    When I go for CoL he is following me as well.
    He already has litterature, but is willing to trade it so he is not building GLib. I'll make a go for it.
    Civ4ScreenShot0040.JPG

    Overall, I like the land and my expansion. If there is no monsters among the other AIs, I probably have some chances even if I don't get astro first.

     
  3. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Sweden
    Spoiler T106-T117 :


    Pacal is officially the most evil troll ever.
    Would have been so much better to just play this as if it where 100% iso, than trying to adjust teching to trade with this guy.... >_<


    T107->T117 was only slow buildup, amassing some failgold.

    GLib was built when I had only one turn into litterature. Decided to swap to machinery to progress toward optics, while teching something that I could trade with Pacal.
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    Started teching once I had about 3 turns worth of gold. And ToAR was built in a distant land, 500+ failgold set me up to get machinery!
    Was SO relieved when Pacal then had teched Philosophy (He also just finished Drama), he has quite insane techrate with that burcap.
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

    Ahh... one turn to machinery, finally I will be able to backfil stuff like math+alfa!! :) :) :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

    What what?! WHAT?! Pacal, you teched machinery in 3 turns!? Just to spite me?
    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG
     
  4. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,031
    Financial deity AI + floodplains + like 7 fur near their start = crazy fast teching. Minor spoiler:
    Spoiler :
    Wait till you see who's on the other continent...:devil:


    As for me -

    To turn 121:
    Spoiler :

    I went straight for astro, no holds barred. No detours (not even math or monarchy). This paid off with a t121 (150 AD) astro date. Met Zara on the same turn. Could give him optics for CoL and maybe HBR as well...

    Overseas trade routes instantly added +30 to my bpt, and that was just with one civ. Now I can make 225bpt at 100% slider. With any luck, I'll go straight for cuirs, wipe Pacal out in a 10-turn war, and ship over my army to do the same to the rest of the AI bastards (Lain is rubbing off me here...).

    My empire at this date (there's also a fish/doublegold city to the east that I didn't show because it would reveal who I met, and I'm too lazy to go back and take a screenie pre-optics):



    And beyond (note, reveals other players):
    Spoiler :

    Darius has 15 cities :eek::eek::eek: and Mansa, ruiner of fun, peacevassaled to him an indeterminate amount of time ago. I feel like this is not going to go well. So...tough fight ahead for sure :popcorn:.
     
  5. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Sweden
    Spoiler Up to T163 :


    @Undefeatable Hah! I met Zara one turn before you, since he came to me instead. :)

    After losing the machinery race to pacal I was basically w/o trading options and thought I would selftech beeline toward optics.
    But...

    Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG
    No trades available! 9 Cities isn't that bad, and his score isn't astronomical either. Still chances here I feel.

    Popped iron in my stone-city, always a relief to get iron!

    After IW and the meeting with Zara I changed plan. Now I need to beef up my techrate. My GSCi are comming to late and I'm too late to the race.
    I turned the slider to 0%, with 7 turns left to my first GSCi which made an academy.
    Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG

    Then straight for CS, at turn 134 I revolt to burocracy and caste system.

    Obvously I never learn, because here I did not go for optics as I should have. But I saw that Pacal was still missing paper, so I thought I would go for that first to get some backfill.
    I did get to paper before him, but I did not get any trades...
    Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG



    T145 opticsm must be some sort of record, and not a flattering one.
    No lib yet?! (Can't recal hearing the sound, and I can't find it in the log.)
    What are the guys abroad doing?

    I'm starved for cash now, and I'll need to go through construction on my path to steel. At least it's something.
    (Do note that Pacal the Troll is in Merc, which does wonders for my trade routes.)
    Civ4ScreenShot0013.JPG


    The wonders are rolling in at a rapid rate now, giving me glorious failgold.
    Also my GScientists are starting to show up. (Thanks CoL!) I use one to bulb eduation (self-tech half) no astro bulb possible for a long time....
    T148 I get discovered by another guy.
    I'm feeling like Toku!
    Mansa came from the west, where Zara came from the east... So bought mansas map for 240g. A steep price but I had the cash at hand and I figured I could sell the map to others later.
    The map was enough to get the circumnavigation bonus, so I didn't have to buy it from Zara too.
    Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG

    When education is in, I finally get a break!
    Here the reasoning is that I will need all those small techs eventually. I'm not that worried about "We find you advanced." since I havn't made hardly any trades yet.
    Also, the AIs that haven't seen me, doesn't get this debuff IIRC.
    Civ4ScreenShot0020.JPG

    At T151 I meet Darius, which feels behind in tech and begs me for education the same turn. No Darius, I'll take that diplo penalty, you need to pay up. :)
    Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG


    Meeting the other AIs, and starting to get some tech brokering going.
    Civ4ScreenShot0025.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG

    And finally I get something of real value.
    Civ4ScreenShot0027.JPG


    Now I'm not sure how to proceed.
    I still don't have foreign trade routes, which is crippeling. But due to cottage spam I'm still OK.
    Noone has replaceable parts yet, very nice.
    I could start to get really forward by trading chemistry for liberalism, then trade Chem+Lib for astro with one AI, and the same for constitution with another.
    It's risky to let go of chemistry though. My window of opportunity with drafted rifles and cannons might be to small.
    The fear of frigates are less due to the UU though.

     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  6. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,031
    Spoiler :


    Nice work! You managed to land on your feet after some pretty severe setbacks - no thanks to Trollcal (in my game he played nice - handed me alpha, math, currency, and even calendar for the low price of 3 techs on the way to optics). I'd recommend cannons against Pacal, should work with maces even. Then cannons + rifles vs the other continent, starting with Mansa and working your way west. He's still a ways from infantry, not even having rifling yet (the danger is, though, he gets artillery in which case you're in for an uphill battle). If they tech too fast stop to catch up, and then finish this Lain style (with a crapton of arty + inf). This is very winnable (don't worry about the date as much, it's the learning that counts, and you learned to NEVER TRUST AI DURING SEMI-ISO probably).

    As for me - this will probably be the most convoluted cuir rush I've ever undertaken. Iron is far away, I'm gonna have to knock someone out before shipping units, and in the meantime Mansa basically threw the game to Darius. Good news, though - Pacal's so weak he doesn't even have a stack. No plotting because friendly, which means he probably won't build one for a while. I'm probably gonna continue tomorrow, but in the meantime - good luck!

     
  7. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Sweden
    @Undefeatable

    Spoiler :

    I'm having a very fun time with the game.
    It's quite a challenge, but still abit of from the games in the lain-thread.
    Thanks for setting this map up!

    A quick question: Did you get traderoutes with Pacal at any time in the game?
    I had them for only a few turns. Never got them through coastal because barb cities spawned the turn I got sailing.
    15-30 turns after i built a road to Pacal he went Toku on me with merc.

    "NEVER TRUST AI DURING SEMI-ISO" yeah...
    I'll probably remember Pacal in this game for a veeeery long time. It's like it was designed to frustrate to the maximum. I mean I got OB super early, it wouldn't suprise me if he went poly->priest->writing. And then he waited with alfa untill turn 90 when I was going for it. Finishing machinery the same turn as I did... Stealing paper!
    It could have been such a nice game if he went for alfa early. He might even have teched machinery for me after recieving MC.
    In hindsight, oracle->IW could have been nice here too. As I did and went for MC because of the high beaker count was clearly a mistake. It's the utility of the tech that you get which really counts. I have never much considered IW from oracle, but in this map I think thats a good option.

    The prospects of the game are still good since there is still relative balance on the big continent. Justinian is getting abit ahead, with mansa tighly after.
    I haven't looked at the game yet today, might to that in the evening. Just wrote up from notes/sceenshots.
    I haven't even dared looking at the diplo situation but my trading has certainly made some people angry.
    Need to carefully analyze the situation now. Could be forced to go into free religion and perhaps some fav civics like theocracy before I get a DoW.
    I'm not 100% sure that going for Pacal first now is a good idea. He is my best friend after all.
    Should read up abit on peacevassaling mechanics, because I think it could be possible to get him into the fold that way once I start massing troops.
    Also i feel he is no danger long term either, since he is so close by and have no prospects of getting much more land.

    (This holds true for your game as well I think. You could leave pacal for later since he will likely continue to a soft target.
    If that makes you be able to hit earlier on the other continent that could be good.)

    If I do go to war, I would prefer going for a top dog like justinian. Because he will be a big headache later on if I don't.
    In that case, the soundest way is to go for cannons (built or whipped, probably built) and drafted rifles, shipped over with a rather slim fleet and then declare from Zaras border.

    I feel happines will be an issue here. I don't have access to many resources (I think they are tied up in trades AI-AI.
    Soon I'll be hammered by enmancipation as well.
    Drafting/Whipping could prove problematic.
    Continue to cottage and go for universial suffrage and rushbuy the UB, and massbuild artilery/infantry is probably safest.
    Going for space is also an option, could easily get a few more scientists out and get two more academies. There is an abundance of green land and just laying a carpet of cottages could probably work.
    I got natepic in the capital now (Not good synnergy with moai, but what can I do... It's getting them earlier that really counts).
    The bulbing is done, so I don't really care that much what GPersons I get, althought merchants are probably still preferable.
    I could build a market and focus all GPP generaiton in the capital.
    Since I don't have any workshops yet, caste would then lose it's luster completely and that would enable me to use serfdom for abit as I still have quite abit of jungle to clear and many improvements to build.

    Loads of things to think about here, thanks alot for the map!

     
    Fish Man likes this.
  8. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,031
    Thanks for your kind words :)

    I wanted to roll something that was challenging but not Lain-level masochistic. Looks like I succeeded.

    As for oracle - I feel confident skipping it completely would’ve been so much better. Think about it - you’re sinking over 200 beakers to get 200 beakers back, and that’s not even counting the hammer cost. Self-teching IW is a tough pill to swallow but if you accept it’s necessary in iso then it pretty much is in semi-iso too.

    US rushbuying is a pretty much an outdated tactic. Late game production comes from communist caste workshops which are more efficient, powerful, flexible, and also come with the 2nd best civic in the game.

    Happiness won’t be an issue once you start seizing those resources by knocking some heads in.

    I’m planning to kill Pacal first to prevent him from building too much of an army, and also to get his 12-cottage 6-fur core, which if I’m not mistaken is well worth over 150 commerce per turn.
     
  9. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,031
    t132 @krikav To avenge your many misfortunes, I've had the pleasure of going out of my way to troll Pacal as much as possible in my current game.

    Spoiler :

    Probably the biggest thing was robbing a barb city he should've gotten. Take that, you backstabbing spear-throwing marasmatic tech-stealing moron!

    Also I begged him polytheism and priesthood. That's 2 turns saved from cuir time :)

    Picture of ARMED ROBBERY with CHARIOT (warning NSFW):


    Meanwhile I'm planning to trade astro to Pacal for engineering + philo. Then kill him within 20-30 turns, so he won't have time to give it to anybody. Like to keep my monopoly as long as possible...

    Darius doesn't even have civil service, paper, or compass yet. Guess 14 cities don't do much if they're unimproved junk, even if you're a deity FIN AI...still, I'll have to keep an eye on him, he has a lot of potential to screw things up especially with Mansa as a vassal. Justinian looks dangerous too.

    Finally, have a GS to half-bulb edu. The longer I can keep those slimy AI hands off edu the more likely I am to win lib (maybe even economics, though don't wanna get too greedy here).
     
  10. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,031
    What's your goal date for SS arrival? 600 or 750 turns (that's 200 or 250 standard speed turns, normalized).
     
  11. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Sweden
    Spoiler T163->T247 :

    Justantin didn't want to give me even guilds for chemistry, so he is going for that tech.
    I did some trades.

    T163:
    Chemistry for Liberalism+175 gold with zara
    Chemistry for Guilds+420 gold with mansa

    T164
    Liberalism+Chemistry+110gold for Astrology+Music with Cathrine (astro was HUGE, 100+ more BPT).
    Liberalism for Banking+80gold with Pacal

    This gets me here:
    Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG
    I'm starving out a GPerson from the capital with nationalepic for a GA. I need to change civics. I want to get into Theocracy to get some friends. Both Zara and Justantin value both the civic and religion alot so I'll try to please them.

    T165 Pacal gets replaceable parts so I trade astro+chemistry for RP with him.
    I also trade Chemistry for Economics with darius (I think this was a big misake, as it casued me "You have traded with our worst enemy". Too lazy to check all saves but I think this got it started.
    I wanted economics to get into free trade in my comming GA.

    Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG

    T166 I get a GP and do a GA. Change civics to serfdom free market and free religion.
    I'm close to steel/rifling and are in no need for more GPersons now, rather I need to grow my cities and make myself ready for draft. I need more improvements done and jungle cleared.
    Free religion to boost techrate abit, but mostly to ease up diplo situation.
    Civ4ScreenShot0015.JPG


    T167 Justantin (Annoyed) make a demand for 530 gold. Sure thing buddy!
    Also a Cautious Cathrine demand RP. No problems!
    Finally I start to feel like I'm getting a few lucky breaks! :)

    To put icing on the cake:
    Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG
    Thanks for clearing those longbows for me pacal! I'll take it from here! ;)

    T173, Last turn of the GA I switch to Nationhood, Slavery,Theocracy and Buddhism. (I have ONE Buddhist city right now, but the diplo thing is more important)

    At T178 I finish Rifling and make a few possibly dubious trades:
    Rifling+Steel for steam power with Cathy,
    Steel for MT with Pacal.
    Steel+200Gold for SciMeth with Zara.

    I'm having a hard time with the teching, since the AIs are teching different things and trading like crazy. I'm unable to hold any monopoly.
    I don't know what poor darious is doing, he is not his normal self. :)
    It was probably a mistake to go steel before rifling, because I missed out on 4 turns of drafting fun in that order.
    Darious is my candidate target at this point.
    Civ4ScreenShot0034.JPG




    T179
    MT for Constitution with Cathy

    T183 Diplomacy is shaping up really nice! And Mansa has finished radio, likely to go for mass media and build the UN.
    I switch to biology to be able to amass large pop.
    Still in draft mode here though.
    Civ4ScreenShot0039.JPG

    I have signed defensive pacts with pacal and zara, to further cement our relations.
    I deny a demand from darius, making me worst enemy.
    Best thing about being worst enemy, is that you can sell techs without diplo penalties, so I get 470gold for MT.

    T195 I revolt to Burocracy and enmancipation. My cities are so unhappy after the draft it isn't funny. Almost only the capital is left unharmed.
    Mansa has settled two junk cities to the west on my continent.
    Two cities there had alot of riflemens standing as garisson, and was drafted most heavily.
    Civ4ScreenShot0048.JPG

    These cities I gifted to Mansa the turn before I declared on him.
    I also sold him MT to change civics to prevent him from defending properly.
    Civ4ScreenShot0051.JPG


    Zara was eager to join the fight for MT.


    Retook the cities, much better!! :)
    This mechanic, is it allowed in HOF play? Feels very much like an exploit.
    Civ4ScreenShot0053.JPG


    Cont....

     

    Attached Files:

  12. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,031
    Nice job on the trades. You could've taken over Pacal with cannons + maces and then easily won space, but it's a bit too late for that - however, the situation's still tenable.

    Also why did you give him all these cities???

    And I'd like to see your invasion force, just curious :)

    btw what time zone do you live in? I stay up way too late but even then I get your replies at 2am just before I go to sleep..

    EDIT: you're so lucky none of the AIs have gotten RP yet. With the way my games go Mansa bolts for rifling for some reason and trades it around to everyone ~t200...
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  13. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Sweden
    Spoiler Continuation :


    I retook my cities, and took a few new ones.
    Mansa had extremly few units, but quite a few wonders.







    Civ4ScreenShot0054.JPG


    This turn he completed hollywood in Djenne:
    Civ4ScreenShot0057.JPG



    Civ4ScreenShot0058.JPG

    I had to suicide quite a few cannons, and I had troubles reinforcing later. I wanted to clear a few more cities to avoid bad border pressure.
    Zara was also moving in from the west, so I had to give him quite alot of gold (1440) to get him of mansas back.

    I then took two minor cities the next turn, and he capitulated.
    I made sure he changed to the right religion and civics to make him more palatable as a vassal for the other AIs.
    Civ4ScreenShot0060.JPG


    I then teched for artilery, with sort of the intent to continue to march toward Darious.
    I thought Mansa would build the UN, but he didn't. His wonderspamming glory days was apparantly over. :(
    Probably made a mistake, because got a GPerson and did my second GA at T219.
    And then I starved my cities to get yet another GA (nice at 12 turns)
    I was "unlucky"/"lucky" ?? And got a Gengineer at low odds instead of a Gartist. It was nice to get UN quickly, but it set me of completly.
    I forgot alot of cities which starved to dust while I was waiting for a fourth GPerson.
    But I ened up just trading Artilery for Electricity, self-teching mass media and built it myself.


    I got the chair:
    Civ4ScreenShot0070.JPG



    Switched to HR+Theocracy.
    Bribed Cathrine to switch back to HR:
    Civ4ScreenShot0073.JPG

    Zara had long since switched to Islam, and since I thought I was up against Justantin, I changed to Hinduism to pleace Pacal more. (Cathrine was in free religion, good.)

    At the turn of the vote, Cathrine asks me to declare war on Darius. I comply since I did have my stack (although not enough to win any war) at his border. Also, Cathrine gets double diplo penalty if you deny her requests... :(
    I was suprised that I was now up against Darius. (Did he somehow surpas Justantin in population in a turn or so?
    Civ4ScreenShot0075.JPG

    Thanks for the votes everyone! Especially you Pacal, everything is forgiven!
    Civ4ScreenShot0076.JPG
     
  14. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Sweden
    Central european time, I'm a Swede.
    I also stay up way too late! :(
    Just... one... more... turn.
     
  15. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Sweden
    @Undefeatable
    Spoiler :



    Mansas capital scouted with caravel:
    Civ4ScreenShot0080.JPG

    Invasion fleet, the two lagging boats are filled with 8 rifles:
    Civ4ScreenShot0079.JPG


    On the mainland, there is 16 riflemen and 5 cannons mopping up the cities there (very few defenders) and in transit.
    Too few boats, too many rifles.
     
  16. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Sweden
     
    Fish Man likes this.
  17. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,031
    Congrats on the win!!! Diplo was not what I expected but it’s legit nonetheless, and I’m glad you beat my challenge :)

    As for the exploit - huh, didn’t know that sorta thing existed. I assume the benefits are somewhat negated by losing buildings in city capture and culture imbalance but still it’s a pretty big oversight.

    I live in west coast USA so basically on opposite ends of the world, haha.

    Also, for peacevassal mechanics: different AIs have different thresholds. You’d have to have far more military power than Pacal for him to consider peacevassaling unfortunately, even as a land target.
     
  18. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Sweden
    @Undefeatable
    Spoiler :
    When I saw both Zara and Justinian in the same religion, the thought about diplo win started.
    They both care a whole lot of both religion +6 for Justantin and a Zara +7 (Highest with only Asoka as high) and civic (+4) both.
    I kind of did want theocracy for the draft, althought that didn't work out.
    It was quite alot of diplo points for cheap.

    I thought I would build an insane ammount of units and just roll over the entire main continent, so getting the power ratio wouldn't have been a problem.
    I think it would have been much better to just have gone for him early on though. I'm pretty sure that I would have been able to fit in a war with him while I was building up for my planned fight with Darius (which later changed to mansa).

     
    Fish Man likes this.
  19. elmurcis

    elmurcis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Messages:
    974
    Location:
    Latvia
    To be honest - no idea. With NTT everything is much slower and also chance to catch AI in reasonable time is smaller (although can deal 1 by 1 if can find some weak spots). If I lose - its okay, thats the part of game :D
     
    Fish Man and krikav like this.
  20. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,467
    @krikav the city gifting trick you mention is perfectly fine in HoF play. WastinTime did a lot of it in his bc space launch. It becomes even more powerful on marathon speed.

    The only city gifts that aren't allowed are liberations while at war. You cannot do those in the diplo screen, but it's possible through domestic advisor. Basically they allow you to liberate and take back a city several times each turn, gaining +diplo for every liberation, while there is no negative diplo as you don't need to redeclare. This exploit can be used to make any war target friendly in no time.
     
    krikav likes this.

Share This Page