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Nobles' Club 204 - Peter of Russia

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by elementoffear, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    94
    @Olafeson[/USER]
    T190 is looking much better than I would have expected after the T113 report. Good job and quite brave you kept going on.:smoke:
    Oxford is too cheap with stone to spend a GE on I think. So better start a plain GA (I suppose Taj is not possible).

    I'm at T195 myself and actually an AI just snatched Taj from me with 2T to go, with a GE it must have been :cry:. So, had to take a short rage-break. :crazyeye:. Taj is a burden without marble. Just wanted to deny it an AI and failed. I have a tech lead though (imm diff) and am ready to switch to war mode. And someone just raised a casus belli......

    Spoiler :

    Augustus, the bloody xxxx
     
  2. Olafeson

    Olafeson Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
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    Location:
    Budapest
    @Powerfaker

    thanks for the advice. I think you are right and i will start a GA with the engineer. I upload pictures with good old paint:lol:. Just use the print key and copy it into paint then save it as jpeg file.

    Spoiler :

    Would like to see your empire, but sounds like a real bummer. Going fo the Taj without marble or industrious leader is quite an investment and then missing it by 2 turns. RIP:rolleyes:.

    Yeah i made 3 mistakes that set me behind in my opinion.

    Missing out on GLH. Not my fault but well it went pretty early.
    Losing my first city settled to the south to barb archers. Too greedy i wanted it earlier and didn t wait for an archer.
    Not settling the GS right away to reach calendaer faster. I shipped him all the way to the south and then settled him. Also forgot about to build the palace for a few turns and just put hammers into a barracks for no reasons.
     
  3. Olafeson

    Olafeson Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Messages:
    359
    Location:
    Budapest
    Game loss Deity around turn 240 NH/NE

    Spoiler :
    Recover.jpg Picture is from Alex initial attack, after which we made peace for a couple of turns.

    Looks like after the initial weak attack with 2 galleons and a few catapults + knight and muscetman, alex decided that it was time to stop fooling around.
    He boarded multiple galleons with lots of grenadiers, knights and catapults and suprised me with a hard strike. I gifted him Isengart in the North for a peace treaty. A surprisingly strong naval attack. Tbh did not expect that.

    Unfortunately i even had time to beg from him for 2 or three turns. But he had no gold to beg for and i was pretty sure he would go for Persia or Mansa.
    Well i lost 4 cities but only Mordor did really hurt. I lost the goldmine there and some FP cottages. But i decided to play on since my core empire was still going strong.

    I teched to canons and rifling and even reached infantry. Initial attack was planned with canons and rifles but since alex started to plot again, i did wait for some turns. My hope was that he would declare on Mansa or Augustus. Mansa was his arch enemy and he was also angry with Augustus. but well he did go for me again.
    So i cleaned up his army in the south and retook all 3 cities in the south. Unfortantely he launched another attack in the north which was able to kill 4 fortified infantry + fortified rifleman in my Ex-Capital Gondor (which had the Globe theatre and should whip galleons / draft infantry). he attacked me with grenadiers and cavalry.

    I expected his stack to lose since he had no siege but he still managed to take the city and had 3 guys surviving.
    After that i was a bit hopeless. Surely i could have retaken it, but then Mansa was so far ahead and all the ships of the line of alex had surrounded my island so it would have been very hard to actually launch an attack with my pathetic navy vs alex.

    Overall the map turned out not as bad as i though. If i just had gifted alex some money while he was plotting and then begged for it, i am sure i would have been in a decent position to attack him later, since he was quite small (only 8 cities) and a bit behind in tech. The attack with Infantry/canons would have totally crushed him since he was quite far away from Assembly line.

    Also i somehow found shaka very late with who i was able to make a few nice trades.
     
  4. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
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    22,278
    Location:
    UK
    @Olafeson
    Spoiler Thoughts :

    Not a huge shock really. The path to you from Ai is not too far. It's also a direct line to reach you. Given power rating difference this made you an obvious target. Looks like they shared a religion with their 2 nearby AI making you a clear target.

    This map requires a lot of effort for an isolated start. Ai with less land sometimes tech faster.

    In any case you were unlucky here to get attacked so hard. Normally AI are terrible at naval invasions. (Albeit in my current game they did manage this on an island city.)
     
    elementoffear likes this.
  5. ontariel

    ontariel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2019
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    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Sorry for the delay, but real life interfered with my Civ 4 playing
    Spoiler :
    As mentioned before, I went for the Great Lighthouse and was looking for an efficient way to get things going. I used the first GM to bulb currency, went for Monarchy and quickly expanded to three cities on the southern part of the continent (total of 6 cities).
    I bulbed Optics at 950 AD and Astronomy with two GS at ~1100 AD. I filled up tech from mainly Cyrus and Mansa and built/whipped Courthouses on the southern part of my continent.
    Now it was time to go for war! I teched Steel and used Cannons, Maces and a few Muskets and went for Shaka, who did not have Rifling yet. After two cities (including the capitol) he capitulated. I immediately went on for Mansa, who was incredibly weak (with Rifling) and got him down to two cities and capitulated him. During this attack I reached rifling myself and triple city raider promoted Rifles tear through things quite easily.
    With all this land and the big army I then attacked Augustus (he had no Rifles), Justinian (had Rifles, I got Infantry) and finally Alexander. I capitulated all of them and finally won domination.
    Screen Shot 2019-03-26 at 08.39.25.png
    Screen Shot 2019-03-26 at 08.39.25.png Screen Shot 2019-03-26 at 08.39.11.png

    I have to say it was a rough ride and especially the low commerce start with the large distance between cities was difficult to manage. It felt as if I was always behind. Luckily Shaka and Mansa were fighting permanently and I could profit from that. Additionally Cyrus, who had a significant tech lead was going for culture and did not interfere in my wars. I don't know whether I could taken him out.

    I learned a great deal about managing great people and governments. Thanks again for everybody's comments!

     
  6. floydmcw

    floydmcw Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2002
    Messages:
    224
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    @ontariel congrats on your victory!

    At first I was annoyed by the two mountains (the one that teases you into thinking there's land to the NW, and the one that blocks expansion to the south). But I've grown to like this map.

    Played on emperor, no huts. SIP (as others said, the scout was not helpful.) Ag -> Fishing -> BW. Then I replayed with Fishing first and was surprised to find it was mostly a wash.

    Got GLH T78 and Pyramids T107. Bulbed Taoism T129; Pacifism a good civic for this map. Double-bulbed Astro (cheap harbors very nice after that). Now it's T177 and am one turn from Lib, will try to Lib steel and take out one of the more backward AIs.

    BTW there might have been a mistake generating the saves; the city in the south was guarded by warriors not archers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
    elementoffear likes this.
  7. ontariel

    ontariel Chieftain

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    @floydmcw
    Spoiler :
    I am really impressed by you getting the Pyramids as well. I played this map multiple times until my win and I found that the Pyramids can go very early (depending on the AIs mood). Admittedly things will be a lot easier if you manage to get them and it mitigates the true problems of this map, i.e. not having a lot of commerce available.!
     
  8. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Chieftain

    Joined:
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    @Olafeson
    Too bad you couldn't make it. The game was lost after all in the openingsphase I think. Relocate the palace was a nice move, but you got too far behind already by then I suspect. This is a really hard map to try on deity.
    I just finished the game myself with dom victory, but not as tech leader on immortal. Posted the file to show my city placement (it seems for TGA files you need Paintshop Pro, have Paint so still need to install something, to be continued)

    Spoiler :
    \
    My idea was to place HE in pig/stone city, so I put this one more inland (one nice benefit of barbs that you can easily get a 10XP unit). Suppose if you temper this spot with a capital city next to it, the original capital is the best pick for HE?
    Kept the other cities coastal. The only somewhat dissapointing spot long term was the flood plain city with poor growth, my mistake, not enough farms.

    With cap 1S instead of SIP at T1 the city up north becomes a very nice Moai spot by the way. If I hadn't read about that move already I probably would have restarted, cause SIP is really ******


    As for game progress after 1AD
    Spoiler :

    Filled up the south part of the continent between 1AD and 1000AD.
    Bulbed Mach and Optics 800AD. Astro 1020AD, Lib => MilTrad 1280AD
    I thought I had Lib race under control, but Augustus suddenly started to become a runaway and I had to hurry. Luckily he went for Economics. As mentioned in earlier post he did snatch Taj away or me.

    I let ideas of revenge pass and chose less advanced Shaka as 1st victim (dow 1530AD). Of course diplo elephant as I am, I forgot about his apostolic Hindu buddy/vassal Mansa. At least the timing was right, I took 2 cities, got a forced peace when I needed reinforcements, then re-dow and capped Shaka after 3rd city. In the meantime Mansa had broken away and offered a little later peace vassal to me (yes, thank you).
    Next target was Cyrus who had been fighting my good friend Alex for quite a while. Mansa already ruined my relations with Cyrus through apostolic stop trade resolution, which he would do later with Alex too.
    Took over all his cities with overwhelming niumbers and finished the game ''quick and dirty'' reaching dom limit against Alex, letting Augustus dream of a space ship after finishing Apollo program.


    Edit
    Spoiler :

    The Oracle I built gave me 3 prophets. 1st one settled and 2nd one for GA I could handle. The 3rd one late game was 100% useless (no 2nd GP available to start another GA) :undecide:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
    Olafeson likes this.
  9. Olafeson

    Olafeson Chieftain

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    @Powerfaker

    congratz on the win. Will take a look at your savegame for sure. Yes map was not easy, but if i managed diplo better and alex would not attack me, i was in a decent spot.

    Well i guess i didnt care too much because usually A.I. lands only 1 or 2 galleons with trebs and knights. Not this time, i was pretty impressed.
     
  10. floydmcw

    floydmcw Chieftain

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    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    It took me a month to finish this game? I play too slow. :)

    Took out Augie, then took Shaka's best cities and capped him, then took out all Mali. By then I was tired of ferrying units around and cruised to a T341 space victory.

    Finished Future Tech 5 on the turn I landed, don't think I've ever gotten FT4 let alone 5.

    Total losses for all 3 wars: 5 cannon, 1 rifle, 1 cossack.
     
    krikav likes this.
  11. zoiks

    zoiks Chieftain

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    Aug 4, 2007
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    An interesting map, this one. I got to 1950AD on Emperor until I got bored with the point and click. I was stuck in a rut, crawling towards space but unlikely to beat Cyrus to it.

    I started BW>Fish>Agr and got the GLH in Moscow. I even managed to get the Pyramids in 225AD which was useful for representation for much of the game. The most exciting moment was Augustus going to war with me, and luckily he declared while he was sailing past an island I'd settled, so I had a chance to slave out ironclads and form a barrier along my west coast so he couldn't land, with a caravel watching him from afar. In any gaps that he could squeeze through onto my land, I put a rifleman or two so he would have to launch an amphibious attack. When he couldn't land, I surrounded him with ironclads and sunk his fleet.

    I mainly treated the game as an exercise in combining good research, trading and espionage (I had fun repeatedly sabotaging Cyrus' oil well but I could probably be more productive with it). Raising an army for an attack over water needs to much management for my liking so I retired in a healthy but not winning position.
     
  12. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Location:
    Sweden
    @zoiks wow, exciting with ironclads! They come to play so extremly seldom but fun when they do. :)
    And yes... the game can degrade to a slow slog of point and click toward the end of watery maps.
     
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