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Nobles' Club 221: Augustus Caesar of the Romans

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by AcaMetis, Feb 2, 2020.

  1. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis King

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    The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

    Our next leader is Augustus Caesar of the Romans, whom we last played in NC 211; we last played the Romans under Julius Caesar in NC 166. The Romans start with Fishing and Mining.
    • Traits: Augustus is Industrial and Imperialistic. Industrious provides a +50%:hammers: bonus on Wonders and a +100% :hammers: bonus to Forges. Imperialistic provides a +50% :hammers: bonus to Settlers (note that excess :food: converted into :hammers: will not benefit from this) and a +100% bonus to Great General emergence.
    • The UB: The Forum, a Market with +25% :gp:. A minor boost, which only few cities will truly benefit from, tied to an expensive building makes the Forum an overall underwhelming UB.
    • The UU: The Praetorian, a Swordsman with a show-stopping 8:strength:, albeit at the cost of losing it's innate +10% City Attack and costing slightly more to produce (45:hammers: rather than 40:hammers: on Normal speed). Praetorians can also be upgraded directly into Rifles and Grenadiers, meaning they can be build until you've researched both Rifling and Military Science.
    And the start:

    Spoiler map details :
    Pangaea, temperate climate, medium sealevel.
    Spoiler edits :
    Moved some strategic resources a bit closer to a few of the AIs, and moved a Fish near the player's start to a position where it's significantly less at risk of being missed and ruined.
    The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 221 Augustus Caesar Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
    Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
    In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

    For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
    Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

    1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
    2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
    3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labelled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
    4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
    5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
    6. Exit the worldbuilder.
    7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
    If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
    Spoiler huts and events :
    Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    Very rich start! More than enough food, wonder building resource, commerce from the coast, and already being on the PH. The surrounding land can only be worse :)
     
  3. earthy

    earthy Warlord

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    So one thing I'm curious about since I never really play the Romans... Do we tech IW ourselves with such a strong UU?

    also thoughts on the start: SIP might be a bit too greedy(what are we going to do with all that food :eek:). settle on the marble leaves two other possible cities that I can see, 1N of the wheat on the plains hill and settling on the sugar. Could also settle the wheat plains hill first and backfill, but we lose a turn that way. We may kill fish settling the marble but idk how big of a concern that is. I think warrior moves west or SW to see if there's any value in settling 1N of the wheat.
     
  4. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    I have come to appreciate the % gold buildings abit more lately.
    When you go at the AIs early on, the slider is usually fixed at 0% for what can be ages and a few %gold building in that period can be quite nice.
    Other than the stinking libraries who looks mostly like overpriced monuments.

    Regarding the start, I second most of that @earthly says. Wheat plains hill first might be very tempting as it's pangea and land can be an issue.
    However, SiP gives us a workboat in 5 turns and starting the game with a coastal fish T6 is also extremly tempting...

    On the other hand, settle on marble and accept a turn slower fish gives us a nice opportunity to go for two workboats and then a settler @ size4, working two unimproved forested plains hills for a 7 turns settler.

    I don't know regarding IW, I would think that it's abit dumb to self-tech it, but perhaps there is jungled gems around to further warrant it?
    There is a third alternative to self-tech or trade though.
    IND+marble+forest... *hint hint*
     
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  5. Jarno

    Jarno Chieftain

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    How would SIP give us a 5t workboat? City tile would 'only' give 2:hammers: so that plus the 3:hammers: forested PH would yield a 6 turn workboat, similar to settling on the marble. Still T7 fish is attractive :)
     
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  6. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @Jarno
    You are right ofcourse, 30/5 is 6, not 5!! :D
     
  7. Jarno

    Jarno Chieftain

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    SIP could also potentially kill lots of seafood as it restricts settling the peninsula 2S1E and 2S2E, which both seem to have water to their south.
     
  8. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis King

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    Some good discussion so far, but it really depends on what the warrior finds I think. I mean if the Warrior moves 1SW and reveals two wet corn and double riverside gems I think that's decision made :). Whereas if he finds a bunch of desert and maybe a plains hill Wine or something, perhaps settling the marble is worth the risk. Not as if this start is lacking in food even if we ruin a fish or two, though working the fish would be preferred of course :splat:.
     
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  9. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    With a leader that doesn't start with fishing I'd likely settle 1W1NW because it claims a lot of river tiles and keeps settling on marble and sugar open (doesn't kill seafood!). With a fishing starter that coastal fish is a very good tile. Moving 1N leads to 2T later fish which feels bad. So maybe settling on marble for me, keeps sugar and wheat PH open.
     
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  10. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I really should be finishing some games ;), but tried the start.

    Deity T50
    Spoiler :
    Warrior move reveals wet rice, so moving off coast was clear to me. Agri-BW-wheel-pot. Sulei settles Ankara in an interesting fashion.

    Civ4ScreenShot0155.JPG

    Get 5 cities asap, currently at only 2 workers (whipping some more asap) and the empire is disconnected (need 3 roads to connect all), but the cities are good. I think it can go wrong only if Sulei gets pissed in 2T when capital pops borders, so thinking of going archery but not committed to it yet.

    Civ4ScreenShot0156.JPG
     
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  11. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    That's really a strong start. I have already played a so-so opening and thus can afford to compare my game to others.

    Spoiler :
    You claim A LOT OF land, that is even more important with all these other IMP guys around. I was forced to use my Praets early on, you could wait for Maths and make the most out of the forests. Or even go for some marble wonders...
     
  12. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    I played to T50 too.
    (Carefull, IW spoiler! )
    Spoiler :


    With augustus and this seafood start, I think that it makes perfect sense to just beeline oracle.
    Workboat first, then grow to pop2, then workboat again, then grow to pop5 working maximum commerce to reach priesthood as fast as possible.
    Then a settler working the two forested plains hills.
    I had planned to plant the settler at the warriors location here as it has a natural hammer and can reach a 3H tile. But key is to have enough forests (need at least 4), but sully comes and tries to ruin my day.
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

    Hoho, he completes a shiny wonder for me, how nice!
    Warrior has just found gold, so moving settler there instead.
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

    I forgot to revolt when the settler was moving around, so revolted when the first worker was done. I need to whip another one.
    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

    No, not for Rome...
    Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG

    When the second worker joins they chop another forest each, then they join together for the final one.
    Sully is improving the rice for me, how lovely. <3
    Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

    Mmmm, I want ironworking please!
    Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG

    Well, that was a convinient placement of iron, I tought I would have to settle some junk city for it.
    Thanks a million to Sully who detered me from that PH earlier.

    Now I don't really know how to play it from here. As with capac and those crazy Quenchas, I haven't really tried prets as I have heard that they are insanely overpowered.
    But here, I'll likely chop a bunch and roll over Sully.
    Pottery for granaries to whip once the forests are gone, then likely writing->alfabet to start to extort techs?
    Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG
     
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  13. Eagle777

    Eagle777 Chieftain

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    When is it OK to click on spoilers in topics like these?
    I'm halfway into the game, so it seems not much can get spoiled for me by this point. (Turn 158)

    Yet, thinking out loud, if there was a game where oil was rare and placed in a specific location or something like that, that could get spoiled even when you're reaching the industrial age...
    So are there any guidelines?
     
  14. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis King

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    As a point of reference, an unpromoted Praet attacking a fully fortified Sitting Bull archer (CG III + Drill I) in a walled hill city across a river has a ~7% chance of outright winning. A Combat 2 Praet in the same situation has ~19% of outright winning. Regular Swords clock in at ~0.5% and ~5% respectively.

    Praets are basically cheaper, earlier War Elephants that are stopped by Axes rather than Spears, although Axes have a harder time against Praets than Spear do against War Elephants. It's not a major difference, particularly when promotions come into play since anti-Melee is more available than Anti-Mounted (Shock only takes Combat I whereas Formation takes Combat II, CG III gives +10% vs. Melee but nothing against Mounted, etc.), but it's there.
     
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  15. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    1AD
    Spoiler :
    Tried to play it peacefully, but when Budi asked me to join in on Charlemage, who was isolated in buddhism, I thought why not. Then I get Sulei bribed at pleased on me and I got dragged into war. Forgot that that could happen... Guess I should have really focused on war and gone construction, but I was busy with the aesth-line. 600BC GLib (Cumae), 425BC HE (Ravenna), 400BC NE (Cumae). Have spawned 3 GS
    (one bulbed philo) and the music artist.

    Well, praets do fine on their own too of course. Got Istanbul with Mids. I think he can peace-vassal to Cathy (I think it counts as a war bribe?) so begged for 10T peace treaty. Need to get my hands on feudalism though to capitulate Suly.

    Civ4ScreenShot0158.JPG

    Well, he wouldn't cap even after 3 cities so I just took peace for currency+stuff and let him peace-vassal to Joao. Pretty sloppy play so far, but the position is very good nevertheless. Winning lib is guaranteed, will start music GA at CS and try to get some GMs out. Will war against Charlie, who is behind and alone and still lacking longbows. Actually maybe should have already attacked...

    Civ4ScreenShot0159.JPG
     
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  16. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I often check spoilers after I've met everyone. In my games stuff like oil is rarely relevant, it's either won or lost at that point. ;)
     
  17. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    580AD
    Spoiler :
    Attacked Charly, let him take Edirne and it was easy to destroy his stack. He had a lot of units, no wonder he's so much behind... Holy war declared on Charly. :lol: Then Suleiman asked to be in my team? OK, didn't understand that meant I declare on Boudica, but whatever, no harm done really. Libbed MT, hard teched gunpowder, got a GS and put a bulb towards PP.

    Poor Prague has no tiles (but has a shrine!), I guess Cathy has culture bombed Yaroslavl, as there are no wonders in that city. Everyone been warring so they are teching slow, the game seems to be very much in the bag.

    Civ4ScreenShot0160.JPG
     
  18. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Thoughts about T50
    Mostly @sampsa
    Spoiler :

    I like your position alot more than the one I'm currently in. You have allready achieved the goal of claiming land and getting up to speed.
    I feel like I have alot to prove now and rushing prets, and if they are not the juggernouts I have thought they where, this might be a complete catastrophe.

    The question at hand now is if I should chicken out, which is very tempting.... And just rush out some more IMP settlers while I still can.
    Or if I should just go pedal to the metal and start chopping out prets right away.

    If there is anything to be said about this approach though, is that it reveals early on the availablity of iron, which can be crucial.
    I think this method would make much much more sense on lower difficulties when trading for ironworking is less reliable, and when the AIs remain very vunerable for longer.

    Oh well, I'll continue and check in at the 1AD mark!

     
  19. elementoffear

    elementoffear Warlord

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    A new Augy game? can it be ? Many thanks @AcaMetis !!
     
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  20. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @krikav
    Spoiler :
    Yeah, I think my early strategy was safe and strong. IMP leader and many good city spots can make a terrific start. I think you should just go for it now to weaken your first target asap (Suleiman?). Seeing that he has stone, maybe he will complete Mids for you though and seeing his cap you can monitor it via :espionage:.
     
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