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Nobles' Club 227: Stalin of Russia

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by AcaMetis, Mar 9, 2020.

  1. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis King

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    The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

    Our next leader is Stalin of Russia, whom we last played in NC 163; we last played the Russians under Catherine in NC 214. The Russians start with Hunting and Mining.
    • Traits: Stalin is Aggressive and Industrious. Aggressive gives all Melee and Gunpowder units a free Combat I promotion, and gives a +100% :hammers: bonus to Barracks and Drydocks. Industrious gives a +50% :hammers: bonus to all Wonders (World and National), and gives a +100% :hammers: bonus to Forges.
    • The UB: The Research Institute, a Laboratory with +2 free Scientists. A nice boost when going for a Space Race victory, but being the latest UB in the game it'll probably come too late to make a real difference.
    • The UU: The Cossack, a Cavalry with +50% vs. Mounted units. Barring the odd UU these guys aren't going to get sniped by another 2:move: unit until Tanks start rolling around.
    And the start:

    Spoiler map details :
    Pangaea, Mid sealevel, Rocky climate.
    Spoiler edits :
    A few resource swaps were done to give AIs nearby strategic resources, and a Spice tile was swapped with a Horse tile to give the player a nearby source of Stalin's UU resource.
    The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 227 Stalin Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
    Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
    In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.
    Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :
    You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
    Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

    1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
    2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
    3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
    4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
    5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
    6. Exit the worldbuilder.
    7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
    If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
    Spoiler huts and events :
    Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
     

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  2. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis King

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    PH Stone sure looks enticing, but where to move the Scout? I'm assuming that regardless of whether he finds something further east/north PH Stone is going to be the capitol, so I'm guessing move him SE->E onto the grass hill to see if there's anything that could possibly convince us to settle the PH south of the plains cow instead? Unlikely, but worth checking?
     
  3. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Hmm... Yes settlement on the stone looks very likely imho.
    Cows and forests indicate that we likely want to have both AH and BW somewhat early, getting commerce might be tricky.
    Settlement anywhere that is not on the river would severely complicate things.
    If we settle along the river, second city can also be placed along the river and we get the traderoues in both cities (+1c) early on and that might carry us awhile and enables us to postpone TW for abit.

    I'm agreeing with scout SE and then E ontop of that grassland hill, that would reveal alot of tiles that we are moving away from if we go on the stone.
    I have no idea what could prevent a move to the stone though... Double piggies or gold or something maybe? :D
    But in that case, either SiP or 1E is alternatives.

    On the southern PH I don't see as likely, but SiP or 1E are highely unlikely but possible competitors to settlement on the stone.

    I'm preoccupied with a Boudica game right now, but will get to this eventually. :)
    Ind and Stone, someone should call @obsolete. :D
     
  4. dr£ddlord

    dr£ddlord Chieftain

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    Build stonehenge since stone and industrious ???

    AH->Masonry->mysticism->bw(?)
     
  5. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @dr£ddlord I'm not sure how much benefit we would have from stonehenge.
    I agree that we should start with a food oriented tech, likely AH but initial scouting might reveal other information.
     
  6. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis King

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    Free monuments wouldn't be horrible for border pops, and with both IND and Stone it'd only cost effectively 48:hammers:. It's impossible to say right now whether it'd be worth it, though. We might not need early border bops, we might be next to someone who's going to get (and spread) religion early, we might end up really needing a lot of tech depending on who/what is nearby and where, and we probably don't want to get a Great Prophet as our first GP. Than again, if you want to generate a Great Prophet for bulbing Theology and setting up that whole "build AP, crush skulls until Stalin is instituted as Civ IV Pope" idea ;)...
     
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  7. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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  8. Excal

    Excal Warlord

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    Immortal Difficulty Normal Speed No huts/events
    T75 1000BC

    Spoiler :

    Nice map :)

    settle stone > worker
    a bit low in commerce atm, but Gold Silver will help & riverside cottages and Rep sci
    built Mids > Rep/Slav
    GrWall > failgold

    Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG
     
  9. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    This is an excellent map, props, AcaMetis !
     
  10. Snowbird

    Snowbird Warlord

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    t28 (copper location spoiled)

    For a record, I don't get why anyone would put under spoilers info which you can extract on setting screen. So, it is rocky map... sigh. Also, I forgot about tech adding until ~t20... so no barb archers so far...

    Spoiler :

    Moved scout 1SE (saw nice gold) and on East hill. Clearly cows and gold are good... for a second city. Moved settler onto stone and saw dry wheat. So, settled on stone, deselected tech and moved scout....

    T4:


    So, anything about masonry, GW, etc. goes out of the window. I think Quin found me by turn 5 too. At this point I opted for Agri>BW. The main idea, was that second city (cows, gold) will most likely be on goldmine duty until pottery/writing. Also with one cows being worked it just +1 food, while Agriculture is massively cheaper and gives +2 (in a pinch city can work unimproved green cows, while dry wheat is as good as forest). Ofcourse, it seems wheat was the only Agri resource anywhere around...
    Even with Agri first I had three turns of idle worker...

    I think generic plan is
    -worker chops, goes to gold
    -settler moves towards lower blue dot (revolt to slavery once settler out)
    -cap 1 pop whips second worker (once it is possible).

    Not sure, what I want tech/settle next. Upper blue dot needs fishing, which seems to be good for one tile... (I have unscouted coast in the east since scout never made to there). Western blue dot essentially needs Pottery (and ability to steal food from cap.)

    Pinkish dots... I do not think they are realistiic, although I like the one on the peak:).

    Tech: The wheel>Pottery>AH (with fishing squeezed somewhere). With generic lack of food, I would guess granaries are mega-important.


     

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  11. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I don't care myself, but it appears some players prefer not knowing map details.

    @krikav I hear Stalin was a huge Wrestling fan :D
     
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  12. Tobiyogi

    Tobiyogi King

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    From what I see here, (haven't opened the save nor moved the scout) I would definitely settle on the stone, for several reasons. We save worker turns, we move our capitol closer to the river and we work a permanent 2/3/1 city tile (worker in 10 turns, right?). The only downside could be to loose good tiles to the south. To loose the PH cow is not a big deal, because settling on the stone makes up for the hammers, and the 3F from a cow can be replaced by grassland farms (in the worst case).
    Finishing Stonehenge would be mistake imo. First of all, the failgold is easily earned money that helps especially in the beginning. Secondly, we have good production here and we are Industrious. So polluting the GP pool with a prophet? He can be settled, but 2H5C is not exactly what we need here (because of being IND). A Spy would be much better.
    On IMM, I would still go myst first, to get the bonus for Masonry, but rather finish TGW.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
  13. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @Major Tom
    Was it you who wanted a starting save? :)
    The deity save, without huts, buffy5 mod. Barbarian techs added.
     

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  14. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @krikav thanks, useful for me at least!
     
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  15. Major Tom

    Major Tom Immortal

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    Thanks, Krikav! Intriguing scenarios to choose from at turn 0.

    The Pope thing with or without Stonehenge (for prophet and theobulb) or,
    EE with The Wall or
    SE with the Mids or/and
    the usual and healthy expansion.

    Add truckloads of failgold either ways.

    This should suit any taste out there.

    Great idea/map @AcaMetis
     
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  16. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    Vague memories of this game. Move the scout first.

    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG
    This is going to be a weak capital. Stone and/or gold but do I even have the food to work everything?

     
  17. Excal

    Excal Warlord

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    T116 25AD

    Spoiler :


    Economy doing better
    Tech: Aesthetics (trade Alpha/Iron/Math and backfill)
    popped GrEng (Mids) and rush build GrLib
    first to Music > GrArt
    running 7 sci

    secured iron/copper/horse/stone/marble
    currently failgold building Parth/Shwed/Sistene
    most likely go for cuirs > cossacks

    Civ4ScreenShot0013.JPG
     
  18. Imploding

    Imploding Warlord

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    Now that is what I call a interesting start!

    With IND you got go to for the PH stone here I think..! If really desperate for food you can always farm grassland.

    Spoiler Gameplan around Stonehenge :

    I'm Thinking something of the sort.. If I ever is going to build SH.. I'm going to be IND with easily connected stone. So I'm going for it! Deny the wonders for the other AI's is also a thing. It will slow them down.
    So I will Try to get SH, GW (If need, Failgold if not) The mids. SH is 48 Hammers with stone and IND, Mids is 200. Settle a couple of GP in cap with rep. bonus. Gives a nice "umpf" the entire game, unlike the big boost like a bulb gives.
    A free monument i every city also helps a great deal with city placement.

    So yeah how do you get those things with this start. That's the question.. how to make this effective? The bottleneck is going to be research I think.
    Agg-AH-Myst-Masonary-BW?

    Could actually just go Myst-Masonary and build SH when worker (or.. possible settler) (or.. possible 2-3 warriors) finishes.. Work a PH forested hill or something.. Finish SH in 8-10 turns.

    The dream would be to grab SH while growing to Size 3. (probably need a turn or 2 for GW failgold.) Then start a settler when it finishes. Get out 2-3 guys then grab mids.
    Not optimal strat probably, but seems fun! SH is a wonder I Always like to capture.

     
  19. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    My gameplan around greed @~~1000 BC :
    Spoiler :
    Settle for commerce (gold) ;
    Axe rush neighbour that is most likely to research early Alphabet (blue) ;
    Transition for Oracle slingshot in city 2 (stone). Take Metal Casting.
    Extort techs.
    Backfill cities. Go Litterature. Possibly build the Pyramids along the way.
    Tech up to Cossacks.
     
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  20. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Jumping into this one now too!
     

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