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Nobles' Club 228: Frederick of Germany

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by AcaMetis, Mar 15, 2020.

  1. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis King

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    The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

    Our next leader is Frederick of Germany, whom we last played in NC 191; we last played the Germans under Bismarck in NC 175. The Germans start with Hunting and Mining.
    • Traits: Frederick is Organized and Philosophical. Organized cuts civic upkeep in half, and gives a +100% :hammers: bonus to Lighthouses, Courthouses and (in this case) Assembly Plants. Philosophical gives all cities +100% :gp: generation and a +100% :hammers: bonus to Universities.
    • The UB: The Assembly Plant, a Factory with 2 additional Engineer specialist slots which gets a +50% :hammers: bonus towards it's own construction when you've got access to Coal. Factories are staple buildings in basically any game that reaches Assembly Line, and the combination of Frederick's Organized trait and the Assembly Plant's inherent production bonus allows you to industrialize faster than anyone short of a SPI leader flipping into a quick (and painful) bout of Slavery.
    • The UU: The Panzer, a Tank with +50% vs. Armored units. In >99% of all situations Panzers are just bigger, beefier-looking tanks with no relevant bonus. In the <1% situation where you're fighting a tank war, however, you'll be thankful that these guys turn one of the most dangerous units of the industrial era into target practice. As for Modern Armor, all else being equal Panzers actually get winning odds against them, albeit only barely. Of course any situation in which that's relevant is a situation where you're probably doomed regardless, but that's still not bad for a base 28:strength: unit facing a base 40:strength: unit from a later epoch.
    And the start:

    Spoiler map details :
    Fractal, Temperate climate, Medium sealevel.
    Spoiler edits :
    A few resource swaps, to make sure all AIs have strategic resources.
    The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC Frederick 228 Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
    Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
    In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.
    Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :
    You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
    Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

    1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
    2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
    3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
    4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
    5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
    6. Exit the worldbuilder.
    7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
    If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
    Spoiler huts and events :
    Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis King

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    Now there's a start that's not obvious, at least to me :think:. It's coastal, so I'd like to move further inland to claim more land, but any spot further inland that keeps the Corn will be one tile from coast, which seems like a waste when there's Clam to be had. Riverside, though, and Clam could easily be claimed by a later city if we settle 1N. The northern PH would take 2 turns to walk to, I'd like confirmation there's at least something worthwhile to justify that trip, but the Scout is out of position to check that. As for the southern PH, not a fan of giving up on fresh water and the corn. If the open grass tile 2E1N of settler could be checked and was food, maybe, but the Scout is out of position. Alternatively, 1E on the Plains tile keeps fresh water, Clam, Corn, and gets the mystery open tile in exchange for giving up a plains Incense (whatever), grass hill forest (eh) and floodplain ( :undecide: ). Which might be worth it, or it might not.

    I'm thinking that the Scout should go 1NE -> 1N onto the grass hill, to reveal as much relevant information as he possibly can T0, and send the settler 1N? Then on T1 use the Scout to see if there's anywhere more delicious to settle than 1N of starting position, and if not, settle? Or maybe send the Scout to the Settler's starting position and send the Settler 1N, so that the scout can check the PH T1 and see if there's anything worth a second turn moving onto it to settle it :hmm:? what do the experts think?
     
  3. elementoffear

    elementoffear Warlord

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    1. Thank you for the new game! I can now lock myself even further and concentrate on what is important!

    2. I'm no expert but my initial through is get the scout 2Xnw , and if there is nothing exciting consider maybe moving the settler to where the scout was initially thus adding a hammer to the capital, and grabbing the other clam?
     
  4. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis King

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    Sending the scout on the grass hill gives him better vision of what's further north, 2×NW would only scout the west. As for sending the settler south, I don't see how it would add a hammer to the capitol? Seems like it'd be pretty production starved, all things considered - tons of coast, double seafood, and barely any forests. Workable for a later city, less so for the capitol.
     
  5. elementoffear

    elementoffear Warlord

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    Wait, so if you settle a forest you dont get a hammer in the city? I'm such a newb...
     
  6. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    Suspect that the sponsor modified the map with a certain thought process behind. Obviously put spoiler tags around any comments to what I just said (thanks).

    Immortal, NHNE, 4000BC-3400BC
    Spoiler :
    Settle in place and do not think too much. I remember this standard opening. If you start with mining and there is a floodplains tile, both bronze working and a worker take exactly 15 turns. Then start chopping.


    Immortal, NHNE, 3400BC-1480BC. Slowly and steadily expand to four (4) cities.
    Spoiler :

    Civ4ScreenShotBC1480.JPG
    Copper in starting capital and Maya as an obviously easy target; the Holkan are weaker against axemen than archers.

    I will bite knowing it is a bait:
    1) The only other neighbour is Japan. Eliminate Maya and there are no tech trading partners. Isolation at immortal difficulty except there is a militaristic Japan that will neither cooperate nor interact in any way.
    2) Lots of barbarians with all the resultant uninhabited jungles.
    3) Very high maintenance costs.

    I am counting on the philosophical trait to help me reach Optics and/or Astronomy in time. I also hope to found a later-religion and spread it to Japan for the same-religion diplomatic modifier.

    Barbarians are nasty and I cannot build The Great Wall on immortal. I just have to build more units and fight them off the hard way. I console myself that it is easier than fighting off an actual civilisation.

    Maintenance costs are unpleasant and I hope the organised trait will help.

    I could have went along the “standard play”. Befriend Maya and trade my way up. Attack Japan once I have a temporary military tech advantage.

    Too completed for my taste.
     
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  7. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis King

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    Spoiler :
    Not...really, at least I wouldn't say so. The map only saw minimal editing, and I didn't have much of a plan in mind when rolling maps, I was only looking for anything that seemed like it could be interesting. Iso, semi-iso, full pangaea, if it was interesting I'd have taken it.

    That whole "bait" situation you described with the "standard" opening? All news to me :). You literally got a better read on the map generator RNG's plan than I did :goodjob:.
     
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  8. Jellybug

    Jellybug Chieftain

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    I had a very similar thought process @sylvanllewelyn, except I
    Spoiler :
    took the other course of action. I blocked off land, choked the Maya to 4 sites. Maya isn't trading much though. I've only gotten Math for Alpha and Calendar for Monarchy. Just got him to friendly though (too bad he will die soon.) Very strange that Toku and Pacal started pleased w/ each other.



    Spoiler 640AD :
    Going well so far. Some troops amassing on the borders, but I am preparing a fat mace/treb gift for whoever messes with the Rheinland, and my axes will keep me alive till then.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. dr£ddlord

    dr£ddlord Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    Babylon racing ahead in my game on Monarch, vassalised the Inca and has like 15 cities but no tech lead. I took all of Maya's cities early so now just me and Tokugawa.
    a2.png a1.png
     
  10. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    Immortal, NHNE, 1480BC-1000BC.

    Getting back into this game after a decade, I realised I forgot some important details. In other words: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

    Spoiler :
    City maintenance penalties at immortal! Of course!
    Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG
    Yes, these are all the technologies I have. That is it.

    This is the reason why players build a bunch of cities near the capital, build cottages, and use great people to gain a temporary advantage. Any other options, such as attacking early or rapid expansion, does not end well.
    Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

    Maybe I could settle on top of the jungle/gems and gain another point of happiness - - won’t have iron working for the next two millennia - - then what?


    I will, of course, play on, out of respect.

    Spoiler :
    This is similar to the Earth 1000AD scenario as the Incas. I guess patiently work the cottages and wait for first contact.? What else can I do?
     
  11. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @sylvanllewelyn
    Spoiler :
    Impossible to say without seeing the actual save, but I don't think it's bad. You have pottery, so you are safe. You should work :commerce:-tiles when possible, not much to do with :hammers:, except failgold. I guess this is the reason to go masonry?
     
  12. dr£ddlord

    dr£ddlord Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    It's about 1920ad and I vassalised Gandhi and Hammurbai and me are engaged in a massive war with tanks planes nukes. I control the seas mainly but I can't seem to get any advantage. I've nuked all his coastal cities including his capital but he's just got gunships and I'd been using mainly panzers
     
  13. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    Immortal, NHNE, 1000BC-0500BC.

    There are two main methods of research: Specialist Economy (SE) and Cottage Economy (CE).

    Spoiler :

    I are capped by happiness limits and dragged down by city maintenance. Libraries cost 90 production but this is the only way in the ancient era I can turn production into research. Alphabet is pretty useless when you only have one neighbour and they never trade techs with anyone.

    As if I needed more encouragement:
    Civ4ScreenShotBC0900.JPG
    To capture walled cities defended by protective archers, the number of axemen needed exceeds what my economy can support. I need another way:
    Civ4ScreenShotBC0500.JPG
     
  14. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    Immortal, NHNE, 0500BC-300AD

    The city was sacked and burnt to the ground.
    Spoiler :

    sackingofKyoto.JPG
    I cannot afford to bind down my forces trying to defend The Pyramids. Great that Japan built it. That’s 500 production fewer worth of units I had to fight against. By razing Kyoto, I also removed their only source of metal. I took some time to pillage the nearby cottages with full-health units while the injured ones are healing. Every gold pieces counts. Too bad I didn't actually get to use the catapults. I will get to use them soon.


    Milestone at 200AD
    Spoiler :

    Code of laws completed with plunder gold. Courthouses, then expand like mad and play catchup.


    Milestone at 300AD. Glad I got that out of the way…
    Spoiler :

    Peace treaty with Japan for Alphabet (half-finished) and Iron Working. I really wanted to get alphabet and mathematics out of the way because…
    philosophy.JPG
    I still have no religion and all the others were taken by the other continent! I captured Stonehenge from the Mayans long ago but that obsoletes at Astronomy. This was the last one I could realistically get.
    Dai Miao.JPG
     
  15. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    stop :lmao:
     
  16. Snowbird

    Snowbird Warlord

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    :lol:I had a really good laugh:lol:
     
  17. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Well, Mids lead to SE, and that is outdated.
     
  18. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    @sylvanllewelyn I just spilt my coffee when I saw you destroyed the Mids. Very outside of the box.

    Are you sure that you couldn't have gotten the peace treaty? Even at a price of giving Toku some city, even Berlin, it would have been worth it.
     
  19. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    @shakabrade Berlin is the capital. The game does not allow trading the capital.

    Immortal, NHNE, 0700AD. Peace Treaty of the Second German-<enemy> war.

    Spoiler :

    Civ4ScreenShotAD0700.JPG

    Finally got all the technologies from them. Another 10 turns and I will start the third German-Japanese war and finish them off.


    Half-priced universities for philosophical, let's go!
     
  20. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    I think you did not get the message: You don't raze Mids. :D
    Especially if you are in very early war. You need to recover. Mids are perfect for that.

    More clear and constructive advice: If you are in a situation that you manage to catch more powerful AI by surprise and take something of value but can't sign Peace treaty without giving something, don't refrain from giving your bad cities. If you manage to give something far away from his normal border, you'll spread him thin. Also, you can whip a settler or two, settle towards him and give it to him.
     

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