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Nobles' Club 228: Frederick of Germany

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by AcaMetis, Mar 15, 2020.

  1. pandamancer

    pandamancer Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    335
    Spoiler The reason :

    Too much food. If we settled on that, remember that if we work on the farmed floodplain that counts as working on a dry corn. I will take that +1food per turn.

    I did not even build a lighthouse and yet the growth is decent. Later in the game, I changed the farm into cottage. So no harm done
     
  2. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,329
    Location:
    Finland
    Spoiler :
    I think there is some merit to settling on the corn, but I think the main merit is the possibility to skip agri for a while and go BW, which should lead to a fast start. Maybe whip the 1st worker even. However, I think losing river tiles and losing fresh water just hurts too much. Also, as the Victoria game shows, there really is no such thing as too much food.
     
  3. pandamancer

    pandamancer Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    335
    @sampsa
    Spoiler :

    What i mean is that, seeing the flood plains. Settling on the corn and working on the flood plains is just like working on a dry rice. That is equivalent for a faster growth at turn 1. Yeah i think i went for bronze working early enough... after agriculture i think.

    The lost of the fresh water is not much IMO. Also i moved my capital to hamburg so i don’t plan it to be a long term capital

    @about the victoria map:
    I am playing it right now :lol:
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  4. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
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    2,329
    Location:
    Finland
    @pandamancer
    Spoiler :
    Yes, I understand the rationale and the mathematics behind it, but I don't like it. You are moving away from the river, it'd be different if you were claiming more good tiles. Also, those floodplains are now 2nd ring, not 1st. Loss of fresh water is significant if you go for BW first intending to chop all forest asap. Going agri I don't like very much.
     
  5. elementoffear

    elementoffear Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    194
    OK, tried the map several times, learned a lot but could not win it.
    Spoiler :
    This is s very difficult scenario, Map is large enough so early rush even if successfull ends with being behind and s. Peacefull strategies even if all neighbors where in the same religion and even making Togu happy!, still lacks in getting any good tech trades. Other continent has always someone big enough so that I could never manage to pass them. And always someone from the other continent delays you with the dumb war for a few turns...

    What does everyone think the best strategy is here after playing? Say I Know everything and still want to attempt a victory?
     
  6. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
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    2,329
    Location:
    Finland
    I think both peaceful expansion and early attack on Pacal are fine. Tokugawa is tough to get to friendly, but should be doable with double city gift (both need to get liberation bonus though). Maybe that's not needed though and it's easier to just kill or capitulate both in the ADs.
     
  7. dr£ddlord

    dr£ddlord Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
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    Gender:
    Male
    Spoiler :
    Get to tanks and industrialism and assembly plants. Build workshops everywhere apart from the bureacracy capital and run communism. Then spam tanks. Gandhi will vassalise easily.
     
    Excal likes this.
  8. pandamancer

    pandamancer Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    335
    Thanks for the advice. I will try another run of this after the Victoria game.
     
    sampsa likes this.
  9. Excal

    Excal Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    EverLearner
    Immortal Difficulty
    Normal Speed without Huts without Events


    T114 25BC

    Spoiler :


    Tech: Agr > Wheel > Pott > Bronze > AnimHusb > Write > Alpha (trade Fish, Iron, Arch) > Math
    Slow beginning with not much Tech Trading (Pacal stingy and Toku "forget about it")

    Quite nice land and room for peaceful expansion
    Secured: Horse+Iron = Cuirs

    Civ4ScreenShot0019.JPG



    T159 980AD

    Spoiler :


    Adopt Hindu = Toku pleased
    Tech slow very little trading > Lib (MilTrad)
    building HorseArch + GrMerch (upgrade=Cuirs) > Pacal >Toku

    Civ4ScreenShot0020.JPG



    T180 1200AD

    Spoiler :


    Hello Gandhi

    take 3 cities from Pacal=bribed Toku against me

    Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG



    T192 1320AD

    Spoiler :


    Toku captures barb city, then I take from Toku
    Toku then suicides his stack with only 2 cats against my Hill Muskets = surprisingly he caps
    then Pacal follows after fall of Mutal (holy city + GrLH)

    Civ4ScreenShot0022.JPG



    T234 1620AD

    Spoiler :


    Gandhi at War=backstab his coastal cities with Cavs/Frigates
    eventually get 3 cities+wipeout his stack=he caps


    Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG



    T257 1735AD

    Spoiler :


    Inca next, but he caps to Hamy
    Augustus is advanced so bypass him plus he hates Inca


    Civ4ScreenShot0024.JPG



    T310 1880AD
    Domination

    Spoiler :


    Its the Panzer/Battleship/Bomber Age
    need to buildup troops=time

    took a lot longer than expected as Hamy has 17 cities
    Augustus attacks Inca=DEAD
    Augustus/Gandhi quite helpful

    I am pretty close to UN/Diplo, but decide for Domination instead
    Nice GrPersons and Nice Panzer opps - Thanks for game :)


    Civ4ScreenShot0018.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  10. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,296
    @Excal I wish I was at your 1620AD situation. If only my game was so simple!

    Immortal, NHNE, 1380AD-1700AD. Once everyone has Astronomy the game gets very difficult.

    Spoiler :
    Babylon owns the Apostolic Palace (Judaism) and became Resident. They have excellent relations with everyone. None of my cities has Judaism. As soon as Judaism spreads to any one of my little cities through trade, OR, as soon I capture and keep any city with Judaism, I lose. Instantly.
    Civ4ScreenShotAD1515.JPG
    I have to run a Taoist Theocracy to not lose. This ruin relations with everyone. Most cities on the other continent has Judaism so the first city I capture must be Babylon and I must raze it upon capture. Babylon has more military than all other players combined and the city itself is defended by several dozens of the most up-to-date units.


    Well actually scratch what I just said. They have come for us:
    Spoiler :
    Now I have to defend against an intercontinental invasion.
    Civ4ScreenShotAD1605.JPG
    And they managed to drag India into this. Thankfully, I just hit the age of drafted Riflemen. They should be good against Cuirassiers. Still, I won’t try to attack their capital in the counterattack. Still too strong.


    The counterattack, not for revenge, but simply for peace:
    Spoiler :

    Civ4ScreenShotAD1645.JPG
    The trick is to attack and then hide in Inca's borders.


    To the other experts here: I won’t raze cities this time.
    Spoiler :
    I’ll return it to the Incas.
    Civ4ScreenShotAD1650.JPG
    I need a balance to Babylon’s might. I vaguely feel like “Vilcas” sounds like an Incan city.


    Successful defense.
    Spoiler :

    Civ4ScreenShotAD1655.JPG
    Intercontinental invasions are difficult even for human players.
    Civ4ScreenShotAD1670.JPG
    Alternatively, the Age of Rifles and the Nationalism civic is just a bad time to attack someone.


    I will end this session on a positive note - the very first World Wonder I constructed myself in the entire game!
    Spoiler :

    Civ4ScreenShotAD1700.JPG
    I consumed a Great Engineer, there can only be one in the world, it shows up on the city screen, so it has to count!


    I am still backwards but first in crop yield, population, and production. This is before Germany industrialises...
     
    Excal likes this.
  11. Jellybug

    Jellybug Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2020
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    Location:
    Plains Hill
    @sylvanllewelyn you just gonna crank tanks/planes now? I love doing that, esp from a nice large island such as yours
     
  12. Excal

    Excal Warlord

    Joined:
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    Location:
    EverLearner
    Spoiler :

    Initially I also planned to completely wipe out Pacal & Toku to clear the "Motherland" nonsense, but eventually decided against it because:
    - Toku capped readily
    - Pacal followed straight after and I had captured "the prize" (Mutal)
    - time was ticking by and I was behind in Tech
    - vassals can help parallel Tech research (Toku was surprisingly good at this :hug:)


    Spoiler :

    Yep - Panzers were great :ar15:
    I had some cannons that I upgraded to Artillery, but with benefit of hindsight probably would have just gone fighters/bombers and panzers

    As far as battlefield tactics go
    - I remembered when a AI joins you in war you can direct their attack - so it was helpful to direct Gandhi (my vassal) to team up with Augustus to attack Hamys second border city, while I concentrated on the major border city
    - once these cities were mine most of Hamys stack was history and progress in taking Hamys remaining cities was much swifter
     
  13. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

    Joined:
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    Immortal, NHNE, 1700AD-1888AD Domination Victory. I forgot to turn on the culture slide much earlier.

    Aliens establish a warp gate at the Arctic Circle.
    Spoiler :

    Civ4ScreenShotAD1820.JPG
    Babylon is the strongest and is the worst choice but it was the only location on that continent not saturated with enemy culture. I could not afford to wait out the resistance. I should have tried to obtain a Great Artist next time.
    Civ4ScreenShotAD1848.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShotAD1866.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShotAD1878.JPG


    The German UU / UB definitely made a difference.
    Spoiler :

    Panzers.JPG
    victory.JPG
     
  14. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,190
    From that image alone I can see at least one major problem you have:

    Jails are absolutely useless, like most other buildings. Stop building useless things.
     
  15. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    @Fish Man

    Generally I agree - - all the production into jails should have been military units. Normally the granary is the only building that every city gets. Even barracks and libraries are situational. (courthouses are so tempting for organised leader though...)

    Purely for an "easy & fast" (game time and real life time) domination victory, I could have simply razed coastal cities using ICBMs and token landing forces until everyone capitulates.

    But I wanted to try out the German UU/UB!

    So I reloaded my saves and tried it again without jails. Double-digit war-wariness even with Police State and Mount Rushmore.

    And how do you deal with the Apostolic Palace?
     
  16. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

    Joined:
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    You mean you are getting a happiness penalty in the double digits due to war weariness? How many units are you losing?

    Also you may need to capture Statue of Zeus, in that case.

    And the AP - wait for the vote to pass, war, if war isn't finished on the tenth turn, ceasefire, wait for the vote to pass, and then redeclare.
     
  17. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    I meant the "diplomatic victory" (religious victory) of the AP. Cannot be defied. I was the only one without the AP religion because I was on the other continent. As soon as that religion spreads to one of my cities, I become a member. But, since only one of my cities has it, I have very few votes. Even Mercantilism doesn't work because they send missionaries over. I had to run Theocracy for the whole game.
     
  18. dr£ddlord

    dr£ddlord Chieftain

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    You need to put down your science slider and put up your cultural slider during war, or once your just going for domination victory. Then you can vote 'NEVER' to the apostolic palace, and have huge long wars
     

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