Nobles' Club 233: Roosevelt of America

AcaMetis

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Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
1,555
The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Roosevelt of America, whom we last played in NC 184; we last played the Americans under Lincoln in NC 217. The Americans start with Fishing and Agriculture.
  • Traits: Roosevelt is Industrious and Organized. Industrious gives a +50% :hammers: bonus to all Wonders (World and National), and gives a +100% :hammers: bonus to Forges. Organized cuts Civic Upkeep in half, and gives a +100% :hammers: bonus to Lighthouses, Courthouses and Factories.
  • The UB: The Mall, a Supermarket with +20% :gold: and +1 :) with Hit Musicals, Hit Singles and Hit Movies. Generally regarded as a useless UB that comes far too late to make any sort of difference, it nevertheless manages to be a welcome addition to a rush-buy strategy for it's increased gold output, or a standard Caste/State Property hammer economy to help offset Emancipation anger.
  • The UU: The Navy SEAL, a Marine with 1-2 First Strikes and a free March promotion, allowing the unit to heal while moving. Usually dismissed as irrelevant since few games ever reach the era in which these guys show up, Navy SEALS nevertheless set a new standard for terrors from the sea that Ragnar's Berserkers only manage to reach due to taking City Raider promotions into the gunpowder era.
And the start:

Spoiler map details :
Fractal, Medium Sealevel, Temperate Climate.
Spoiler edits :
The player's starting position was swapped with an AI, and one blocked by a Mountain Fish was moved to a spot where it might eventually see some degree of relevance.
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 233 Roosevelt Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.
Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :
You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

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AcaMetis

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Tempting to settle the grass hill 1SW to grab coastal access and Clam, but that's a lot of tiles with potential seafood that would be ruined. Looks like double floodplain to the east of the settler as well, so SIP isn't totally worthless. Might be more resources in the fog to the north, too.

I'm thinking move the Warrior 1S to check the only situation he can reach T0, and based on what he finds either consider risking 1SE or SIP? I'd probably SIP regardless, don't want to risk ruining seafood, but what do the experts think?
 

Jellybug

Warlord
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
154
Location
Plains Hill
It might be handy to guarantee a backfill site (or two if seafood to W) and a decent cottage capital. Nabbing clam also trades grassland river for brown blech. I like warrior S just for the bants, though I can't think of what he might see that would make me want to move
 

Fippy

Mycro Junkie Queen
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
12,797
I would have no intention to move 1sw even if no seafood killed, too many fogged tiles lost (and an overall worse position besides clams which are not great).
Unless i really want GLH, but for no other reason ~~
 

elmurcis

Emperor
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
1,177
Location
Latvia
Warrior move here might be very importante, don't want to ruin or miss anything! Will play slowly. :shifty:
Spoiler 5 minutes later :
Emperor/NTT/Mara/T404... Oops :mischief: Will avoid spoiling anything so just following others for some time
 

Wrathful

Warlord
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
173
Quite a fun map!

Spoiler :

Moved warrior SE.
Warrior move.png


Didn't really see any reason to move 1SW, aside from trying for the GLH. Loses the flood plains, fresh water, 1 turn of research, 2 turns of improved corn, blocks less land, and possibly kills seafood to the west. We seem to be in a corner here, so I'd rather not move any closer to the coast.

So I settled in place. It's a nice capital. Decent food, forests, and good production with the hills. Two future city sites are already visible to the south.
Settled.png


Judging from the soldier count, Mansa Musa and Hammurabi don't seem to be in the game.

The land is quite good I'd say. Plenty of food around. Being IND, I might make a play for the Pyramids. Rep would be good without any happiness resources nearby. My first tech will be Mining, probably BW after that. I'm sending my warrior back south to fogbust. I really don't want a barb archer to threaten my corn farm.
T5.png


My worker farmed the corn then mined the riverside hill.

BW was finished on T23. No copper to be found. I could go for Masonry now, but I won't start on the mids yet so it would be a bit pointless. Instead I teched Animal Husbandry for the pigs and possible horses. There ought to be something else in my capital after all.

Doing this in my capital for two turns. I want to get the warrior out before starting on the settler. After finishing the mine my worker started chopping.
Working Mine.png


No AI has been met by the way. I guess the jungle to the north could be slowing them down. Still, given the land shape it's probably isolation.

The settler was finished on T33. I revolted to slavery while it traveled. I think my capital will grow to size 4 and whip another settler, or maybe a worker.

AH finished. I do have horses after all. I also made a mistake with fogbusting and allowed a warrior to spawn. Thankfully it's not an archer. Time for The Wheel to hook up my horses and take care of the barb threat.
Barb Warrior.png


New York is already unhealthy. I screwed up there by chopping a forest in its BFC when I was building the settler. Regardless, I want to grow that place to size 4 and whip something. My capital will do the same.

My warriors are cautiously exploring the jungled north...
North.png

Meanwhile, back at the homefront, my capital got out one more settler and will now devote all attention to growing and building the Pyramids. The Great Wall hasn't been built yet, so I have hope. New York got out a worker and will get a work boat with the overflow. I want to check out the island. Perhaps it will lead to another AI?

Masonry came in on T56. Now it's time to start chopping into the Pyramids! All workers will be on chopping duty. New York will grow and whip a fourth settler for the fish/clam spot I think. After teching Pottery I will go for Writing, Sailing (settle the island), Code of Laws, and then Optics.
T56.png


Of course, with the marble I could also go down the Aesthetics line and get some failgold from the marble wonders. Maybe even build the Great Library. But my understanding is that, in isolation, it's better to head straight for Optics after teching either Monarchy, CoL, or Literature? I'll have to think about it.

 

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Tobiyogi

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Messages
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Location
Berlin, GE
@Wrathful
Spoiler Astronomy :
"Of course, with the marble I could also go down the Aesthetics line and get some failgold from the marble wonders. Maybe even build the Great Library. But my understanding is that, in isolation, it's better to head straight for Optics after teching either Monarchy, CoL, or Literature? I'll have to think about it"

GL + NE can help tremendously to get 2 GS for the Astronomy bulb. See Lain's most recent Live-Stream on YT with Justinian. Judging from your Screenshots, this is nice land for a IND/ORG leader. I would definitely think twice before blindly rushing towards Optics. Getting trades is always a big boost but some key wonders that are not available later...?
 
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Wrathful

Warlord
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Messages
173
Spoiler To T100 :

After reading Tobiyogi's advice, I have decided to take a shot at the Great Library after all. The failgold from the marble wonders should be quite good also. But I want Code of Laws as well for Caste and the cheaper courthouses. I think in this game I can afford to expand past the usual six cities due to ORG + the wonders.

My Optics date will be delayed, but I should have a stronger position long term. (Hopefully)

The exact tech path is still to be determined. But for now I definitely need to get Pottery and Writing.

By now I have revealed most of the island. It isn't bad at all. There's room for about 9 good cities.
Entire Island.png

New York whipped a fourth worker. With all my other workers busy chopping, I wanted another one to start cottaging. Boston will whip a settler.

An AI completed the Great Wall on T68. I collected 76 gold.

Two turns later, an AI got Confucianism...they did not Oracle it. Well, I didn't care about the religion anyway.

Writing was finished on Turn 71. I will head for Sailing next. I want to build lighthouses and get out a galley to settle my island. It will bump up all my trade routes to 2 commerce.

Finally, on T74 I finished the Mids. It did take quite some time and slowed down my expansion. However, I think the investment is well worth it in this case since we don't have any happiness resources and there is plenty of food. Also, Police State will help with whipping Cannons later.
Pyramids.png


I think I'll switch into Rep immediately. I could wait for Caste and do a double switch, but I'm already facing unhappiness. Caste won't come fast enough.

From here I teched Myst and Poly, then Aesthetics and Literature. My economy is not bad; costs are pretty low. ORG is saving me one or two gold per turn from civic maintenance I think. Of course, FIN would earn me several gold per turn from my cottages, and PHI would get me more great people later on...and we all know how much great people are worth (about 1.5K beakers or gold each). Nonetheless, ORG should be quite nice in a moment when I start working on lighthouses and eventually courthouses. And this game might last to the Industrial era, where the factory boost would come in handy.

Here's how it look on T88...lots of stuff happening. New York whipped the galley and will get out a work boat with overflow. Washington will 2-pop whip a library next turn. I am planning to settle a city to work those two eastern flood plains, so I am farming them in advance.
T88.png


I reached Aesthetics on T93. Heading for Literature next. I would like to build the Great Library and the National Epic in Philadelphia. It has the best food and decent production with 2 hills and the horse tile.

Literature was finished on T97. Next up is Priesthood, then Code of Laws, then it's on to Optics. Philadelphia will whip a library with overflow into the Great Library.

Ten turns until TGL is finished, can we do it? I think on Deity this wouldn't be fast enough. However, the Immortal AI haven't built any of the Aesthetics wonders yet, or even the Temple of Artemis, so I have hope.
TGL under construction.png


I got my first Great Scientist this turn. Normally I just save them for bulbing in isolation, but here I think an Academy in Washington would be quite good. What do you all think?
T100 Overview.png

 

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Tobiyogi

King
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Nov 23, 2018
Messages
893
Location
Berlin, GE
Going for those wonders, I would definitely consume the 1st GS for an Academy. There are nice cottages in the captiol, certainly worth it. I mean, you will get two more guys, no?
 

dr£ddlord

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 14, 2020
Messages
37
Monarch nhne

Spoiler :
I went towards Monarchy first for HR, then Music I think for the free GA and the Great Library, then towards Optics and Astronomy. Darius got Liberalism first even though I was way ahead in teching education, but I got economics and the taj mahal first.

I got Sistine chapel and the Mausoleum of Mausolis and the Parthenon
upload_2020-4-22_10-53-17.png

 

Excal

Warlord
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
124
Location
EverLearner
Immortal Difficulty
Normal Speed, No Tribal Villages, No Random Events

T69 1240BC

Spoiler :


so looks like isolated

my last good Astro was https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-gaulle-of-france.646489/page-3#post-15466975

no stone, but we have marble and Industrious :cool:
so I am thinking GrLib/NatEpic/Parth/Caste for some scientists
Philly has pig + 2 clam/lighthouse food

happiness will need HedRule

Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG


See Lain's most recent Live-Stream on YT with Justinian

Thanks - very helpful :)

 
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elmurcis

Emperor
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
1,177
Location
Latvia
Yes, yes, finally finished.
Spoiler :

Aztecs with Knights/Trebs, next move on Korea (except 2 cities deep inside Greece culture) with Cavalry/Cannon (part war Artillery), Greece with Cavalry/Artillery/SAM Infantry+Airships and final 2 cities of Korea with bunch of Guided Missiles.
Edit: Oh, forgot that there were Chinese too... things happens so fast on this very fast game speed! :D
 

Excal

Warlord
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
124
Location
EverLearner
T152 840AD

Spoiler :


built Mids for Rep spec bonus/happiness + Caste scientists, then Merch
Optics 600AD is late, should have stayed at about 4 cities and built Mids earlier in isolation
barb galleys ate my seafood :mad:
Astro around 760AD again very late

still too meet one more AI
expanding to northern cities + mega-sugar city to go

horses + iron = cuirs/cavs/cannons/rifles
Wang is at war
Monty+Bismarck are cautious with each other :confused:

Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG

 

umass_dude

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
18
Played emperor with huts on epic. Won a Apolistioc victory at 1740AD. Oracle, Theology, AP. Then met other civs getting open borders with each of them and spreading missionaries to each civ. Then currying favour with Persians and Greeks and spreading more missionaries to them (more votes for them). Getting free religion was important in building friendships.

Not a very fearsome way of winning but satisfying especially as I hardly ever win on emperor.
 

Excal

Warlord
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
124
Location
EverLearner
T244 1670AD

Spoiler :


tech MilSci/Steel for cannons + CR2 grenadiers (via maces)
PolState/Vass/Slav & 2-pop whipping everything

took out Darius (tech leader) continent (10 cities), but slow going as even with circumnav bonus his cities are 8 moves across the water :(
and damn it he gets rifles two turns into war :mad:

Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG


but he has been busy with wonders, so worth it I think :confused: :cool:

Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG

 

sylvanllewelyn

Perma-newb
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
1,579
@Excal
Spoiler :
If Persia only had one city left, why did you vassalise them? Wouldn't it be better just to take techs, sue for peace, then finish them off 10 turns later? This way you do not suffer motherland happiness penalties.
 

Excal

Warlord
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
124
Location
EverLearner
@sylvanllewelyn
Spoiler :

Good question - BUT unfortunately I cannot offer a good universal answer :(

In my case Darius had 4 techs, but would only give me 2 in any deal :nono:
- so I would miss out, because AFAIK if I cut Darius loose (not vassal), I would become worst enemy and he then wont trade with me

If he caps to me (vassal) then he is obligated to trade fairly with me
- keeping in mind he is still the tech leader and has RepParts/Rifle/MilTrad techs (none of which I have yet)
- also as vassal I can direct his research (albeit at a reduced rate from one city)

HOWEVER

Yes motherland :queen: nonsense is something I try to avoid where possible when cities come out of capture revolt
- so if Darius should become a casualty of the next war - I probably wont mind :D and will save me the effort :cool:
- also Darius city is actually on the main continent (not on some obscure/remote island) so could potentially be a friendly staging/launching place for any attack (for example on Wang - who is universally hated by most AI)

So rightly or wrongly that's the decision I made at the time :crazyeye:

YMMV :)
 

Excal

Warlord
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
124
Location
EverLearner
T253 1715AD

Spoiler :


Monty declares on Wang, so I invite myself :hug:
2 turns later 90% of his capital stack of muskets/longbows is gone and he caps - without even fully capturing a single city :p
(maybe he hates Monty that much)

meanwhile discover that Mao has rifles (and can research infantry/artillery :eek:) and is BFF with Pericles :love:
OTOH both Monty and Bismark are further behind and generally not that well liked :thumbsup:

Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG




T280 1820AD

Spoiler :


Monty declares on Bismark, so I invite myself :hug:
capture 4 cities and he caps (gift 2 back) maybe other 2 as well :undecide:
switch to StateProp/Emancip

Motherland penalty is -3 :c5unhappy:
Emancipation penalty is -4 :c5unhappy:
but with all luxuries except HitSing no nett unhappiness :thumbsup:

Bismark next but he has destroyers, so need to catchup naval tech first
Pericles going Culture :confused: but still 100+ away on all 3 cities

if someone builds UN then my combined pop should win :p

Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG



T316 1892AD
UN Diplomatic

Quite different game to the previous NCs - thanks :)

Spoiler :



decided to declare on Bismark early while he was out of position :mischief:
lost one of Montys cities but destroyed Bismarks main artillery stack (with my cannons)
captured and burned one of his coastal (junk) cities and took CeaseFire to allow my antiquated navy to re-supply troops/siege

relaunched attack - this time with artillery and infantry (at least I match in army) but not navy
this is where multiple vassals all teching helps catch-up and Darius can trade with AI that refuse to trade directly with me :cool:

Bismark is stubborn though and wont cap easily despite being severly outnumbered - perhaps he thinks ruling the waves is more important :confused:

eventually he gives up and Pericles completes the UN a couple of turns later :king:

this game dragged out too long - an earlier start on Mids and restriction to 4 cities pre-Optics would have been much quicker I suspect

Civ4ScreenShot0013.JPG


 

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prettification

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
29
Pince Space Race T413

I loved this game. It changed from all the pangea/monocontinental maps.

Spoiler :
Being isolated on a somewhat cramped island, I settled on early caste for bulbing a military advantage and getting a hammer economy (aka war economy) going. Capital was cottaged though.
Having glided my way to chemistry, steel and grenadiers (after astronomy of course), I settled on Darius (almost alone on a big island and pushing the tech rate) to flex my metallic power. Left the waters Cortes style and vassaled him asap to get a tech sla... partner, as well ass to push my military opulence on other gardens.

I therefore conquered Moctezuma land during a 50 turns war, cottageing most of the territory to set up a cottage-research core in order to compliment the hammer one.

After industrialization, blitzed through germany with tanks to swiftly snatch more land that would ease the endgame (more a luxury and a power trip than anything else).

Then steamrolled to victory with my big empire.

---

This game was all bout manageing my vassal research to optimize the space victory. For a long time I feared he might outech me (hammer economy and wars), but things went smoothly, especially at the end of the tree where he was outrageously slaved away.

I suspect faster victory would need better vassal management (in that case, more vassals).

Anyway was very very much fun.

Civ4ScreenShot0018.JPG
 
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