Nobles' Club 238: Darius I of Persia

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Darius I of Persia, whom we last played in NC 205; we last played the Persians under Cyrus just recently in NC 236 - call that a bureaucratic error if you wish , but either way, here we are. The Persians start with Hunting and Agriculture.

• Traits: Darius I is Financial and Organized. Financial adds +1 to any tile that already produce at least 2. Organized cuts Civic Upkeep in half, and gives a +100% bonus to Lighthouses, Courthouses and Factories.
  
• The UB: The Apothecary, a Grocer with +2. Not likely to be useful early game, as health is generally not that much of a concern and Grocers are rather expensive buildings to build. But after industrializing you generally find yourself in dire need of extra health and with production to spare, so a building that can get you up to +6 by itself is pretty useful at that point.
  
• The UU: The Immortal, a Chariot with +50% vs. Archery units which gets defensive bonuses. A very early and cheap 2 unit that can punch through Sitting Bull archers and easily manoeuvre itself into a defensive position when necessary. Why, yes, this is indeed a good unique unit.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Pangaea, Rocky Climate, medium sealevel.

Spoiler edits :

A few resource swaps were done to give AIs nearby strategic resources.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 238 Darius Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

Eh, well...that seems straightforward. Send the scout to check out the blue circle in case there's anything there worth moving 1S for (doubtful, I feel like), and if there isn't SIP? Or does anyone have an ingenious mad design that involves settling the Wine tile for an extra commerce capital ?

 

[Whisker]

Is there coast 2S1W of settler? As there seems to be forest 2S, I don't know what could scout in blue circle reveal that would make me reconsider my settling. How about moving the scout first NE and then either SE on NW depending what is revealed?

 

[sampsa]

Maybe even settle first to reveal what would be the best scout move.

 

[elitetroops]

Settle on ivory would add a FP, two river tiles in the east and some hill 2S of ivory. I'd move scout S->SE to reveal that hill and the river tiles in the east. If nothing interesting is revealed I SIP.

Edit: Immortal 2120 BC

Spoiler :

3 cities, 4 workers, Brennus dead. Room to expand to 8-10 decent cities from here. Got a bit too lucky on the attack on Brennus and now I have too many immortals left and no nearby target to attack.

 

[Kouba CZ]

Hello guys,

Joined this forum very recently and I really like Nobles Club series.
I think that I am max Emperor level player, but decided to step up as this should be learning process (at least for me) and Pangea is my favorite type of map so this time I am playing NHNE Immortal difficulty.

T50

Spoiler :

SIP - Worker - Worker - Settler - Warriror
Tech path: Min - BW - Wheel - Pottery - HR - Fishing

I know that I already did several mistakes. ie waste one worker turn while waiting for BW. Probably one worker short, late improvment of cows,corn etc. But dont want to go back and load.

Please go ahead and and point out all the mistakes so far, it will be much appriciated.

EDIT: Currently researching Writting - as I am using Czech language, sometimes it is tough for me with all those abbreviations which you use.

 

[Tobiyogi]

I would SIP, the ivory tile is very strong early on with a FIN leader, would not want to kill it. The wine is not an option for me, losing 1T, losing the cow, and apparently also some green river tiles. In addition to that, a leader like Darius won't have money issues but should rather get his production going. So 2H city tiles are very welcome.

 

[AcaMetis]

Hello guys,

Joined this forum very recently and I really like Nobles Club series.
I think that I am max Emperor level player, but decided to step up as this should be learning process (at least for me) and Pangea is my favorite type of map so this time I am playing NHNE Immortal difficulty.

T50

Spoiler :

SIP - Worker - Worker - Settler - Warriror
Tech path: Min - BW - Wheel - Pottery - HR - Fishing

I know that I already did several mistakes. ie waste one worker turn while waiting for BW. Probably one worker short, late improvment of cows,corn etc. But dont want to go back and load.

Please go ahead and and point out all the mistakes so far, it will be much appriciated.

EDIT: Currently researching Writting - as I am using Czech language, sometimes it is tough for me with all those abbreviations which you use.

Spoiler :

It's generally better to start growing your capitol after getting out the first worker, to start growing onto your (soon to be improved) good tiles so future workers/settlers can be build faster (or whipped, depending on the situation). Going size one double worker and settler will really slow your growth down.

You didn't mention researching Animal Husbandry, but you did mention Horseback Riding, so I'm assuming you went with AH first, to improve the Cow after the Wheat?

 

[Kouba CZ]

Spoiler :

You didn't mention researching Animal Husbandry, but you did mention Horseback Riding, so I'm assuming you went with AH first, to improve the Cow after the Wheat?

That was just my mistake. Of course I meant to type AH but during translation I just screwed it up..

It's generally better to start growing your capitol after getting out the first worker, to start growing onto your (soon to be improved) good tiles so future workers/settlers can be build faster

Understand, thats what I usually do. Thought this time it might be better to improve just wheat and build 2nd workers and chop while there were so many forrests.

After writing I am thinking to go Aesthetics to have something good for trade as soon as it will be possible.
Prioritized wonder - Great Library.
Dont want to go for Horseback Riding as Immortals are strong early unit.

Not sure about 4th city placement. Dont see any obvious spot. Maybe go for second horse which is on the north? It migh be valuable resource for trade. So set 1S1E from the horses

 

[Tobiyogi]

@Kouba CZ Judging from your screenshot at T50....

Spoiler :

...you could already build Immortals (if you had a road on the horse tile) instead of warrior ("Valecnik" must be warrior right?). I would not think too much about a 4th city but rather take someone out with Immortals. Do you know how to find out, what the best unit is that a specific AI can dispose of? I mean how to find out for sure if someone possibly has only archers?

Generally spoken, you focus too much on cottages. You are already cottaging a second tile while 3 cows are unimproved! Do not neglect those power tiles. Cottages will pay back later. In the early game, where you whip quite often for 2-pop, the cottage tiles are the first ones to be sacrificed, because you need the food-strong tiles for regrowing. So you won't benefit much from cottages.

 

[Kouba CZ]

Spoiler :

...you could already build Immortals (if you had a road on the horse tile)

It is not good SS, but worker is on the horses. He just finished improvment and road will be the next one. Warriror needed to be build ASAP as there is archer behind hill close to my southter city.

I would not think too much about a 4th city but rather take someone out with Immortals

So you would rush with Immortals? In my limited experience, in my games when I rush too early, I have problem with finances, losing pace in technology.. Especially on Pangea map I did have some good results with winning lib and spamming cuirassiers

I mean how to find out for sure if someone has only archers?

I have no idea! Please let me know. Right after road connect horses, I will whip immortals and start scouting. If I find someone close only with archers. I would consider Immortals rush.

Basically thats plan for next few turns. Build immortals, check neighbors and decide what to do next

Could anyone please upload English language files for civ4 BTS. Seems that I overwrite my original English language by my native as I never thought that I will need english version again. But it will be easier for me to communicate in ENglish if the game is also in English. Thanks in advance

 

[Tobiyogi]

Immortals are great rushing unit, if someone has only archers, of course. Not always, but here, your surrounding land looks crappy, too much jungle and plain tiles. AND you are ORG leader, so less upkeep costs. I think a Darius can afford to incorporate a foreign capitol

Do not whip, but chop them! Whipping is efficient for units that cost 35 hammers and more, because you can whip them for 2-population (when you whip a 35-unit at 4 hammers, you will get max. overflow, for chariots/archers, that doesn't work.....) --> knowing how to create max overflow = one of the most important skills in that game
Also you have enough production like Cows, Ivory.... You should have maybe even started to rush at 2 cities... because IMM AI reaches Iron Working very soon.

How to find out about neighbors units? You open the dialogue window with the respective leader again and again until he tells you "Fear my ...." or " My numberless ... will destroy you!". If he says Axemen, then he has copper, if he says Archers, then he doesn't have better than that.

You can keep in mind, that it's a kind of tradition in the Noble's Club Series that the human player can dispose of its Unique Unit. So you can almost count on nearby horses if you play someone with a mounted UU.

 

[Kouba CZ]

How to find out about neighbors units? You open the dialogue window with the respective leader again and again until he tells you "Fear my ...." or " My numberless ... will destroy you!". If he says Axemen, then he has Axemen, if he says Archers, then he doesn't have better than that.

Thats great. Thanks for this tip.

Spoiler :

I see my approach here was completely wrong. Focused to research pottery first to have early cottages to use better my financial trait. But judging from the @elitetropps comment above (dont know how to tag people yet) I could be at this point much further. Basically I wasted opportunity to rush early with one of top early UU. But I dont want to give up yet. Hopefully the game is not lost yet, although start is poor

 

[Imploding]

Write up NH Deity

Spoiler My game :

Spoiler REX turn 0- 75 ich :

Great starting location/leader and a lot of room!
Noticied strong land.. so i rexed to 5 quick cities.. Had 2 additional settlers "ready" to settle as soon as i saw a settlerparty. So ended up with 7 settled cities.

Teched "the usual" AH- Mining-BW-TW-Fish-Pot-Writing-AES.
Traded aest for Alpha/math/backfill.

No real barb issue... 3 barb cities was established in jungle.

We were stuck in the middle with a slow Sury, big Peter, Big Brennus, Big Qin and "isolated" Monty and Hammurabi. But a couple of strong alliances where formed around shared religions etc...

Spoiler Key element of the game :

Then Key element of the game!

Bulbed philo and bribed Peter on Brennus (he had captured a barb city close to peters boarders..
Dragged in Quin on Brennus after that.. to keep him occupied.
Next turn Monty and sury joined on each side.
Then Hammurabi was left "isolated"

To illustrate..!


The perfect storm.

Spoiler Midgame :

Did basically no civic switches/religion etc.. so decided to go for a early GA.. with my Great Artist (I had earlier grabbed music.)
Waited for good city sizes.. and Byro.. Did a 8 turn early POWER GA. Managed to grab 2 GS 1 and 1/2 GM

And a anarchy less Civic switching.. think I saved 4-5 turns of anarchy.. which I always love.

That set me in a excellent position for a curry rush! I really had a good tech lead.. and evaluated my war plan.. got really war crazy and ended up with these chain of events

1. Lauched 520 AD against Suryman! (sury also bribed Monty on us) He capitulated 700 AD
2. Eliminated Monty 840 AD
3. Attacked Peter 920 AD (he had just resent got out of war with Brennus.) Caped Peter 1000 AD
4. Attacked Qin 1070 AD (and bribed Brennus in on Qin rigth after) - That was just beautiful because they pretty much wasted their entire army on fighting. I brennus 10-12 unit stack disapear inside Qin's boarder!
5. Qin Capped 1130 AD - with cavalry (i managed to keep teching to rifling during fighting.
6. Attacked Brennus 1170AD and managed to grab 6 cities on the first turn of war! He caped 1210 AD.
7. Gave back land and had 63,82 % landmass.. just went 1 turn 100 % culture and that gave me a domination victory turn 1220 AD

Gave back land and had 63,82 % landmass.. just went 1 turn 100 % culture and that gave me a domination victory turn 1220 AD

Spoiler Stats thoughts :

Units Built:

Units Killed:

Here you can se the events.. was far superior military than other guys

Ended up with a Kill/death ration 200/46 = 4,37. Which is a good indication on a far superior military power!

Had a lot of fun in this game.. really liked to just stear completly away from wonders etc.
The super powerfull mid game Golden Age with great artist Really put me in a good position.

I really don't mind that the NC have strong setups.. i might play 1 game every month and.. having a "good time" is alot of fun for me at least

Thx for another great hosting of NC @AcaMetis! Looking forward to the next one.

 

[migalhone]

I'll try NC 236 (Cyrus), let's see how this goes

 

[Excal]

Immortal Difficulty
Normal Speed, No Tribal Villages, No Random Events
Domination

T108 175BC

Spoiler :

Brennus gets metal early, so horsearch

Celts DEAD

Brennus DoWs me about 2 turns before I was to DoW him
his Gallic Warriors with Hills promotion see fairly heavy losses for my c1+shock horsearch
bonus = GrLightHse in his capital

T183 1230AD

Spoiler :

tech to Cuirs start GoldAge and DoW Hamm who is universally hated
unfortunately Peter who is now master of Monty dogpiles and takes out Akkad
take Hamm capitulation in case he caps to Peter instead

T201 1410AD

Spoiler :

DoW on Qin with some Cavs
continue upgrade to Cavs and capture cities easily .... until .... he caps to Sury
(would not do peace treaty beg )

T206 1460AD

Spoiler :

China DEAD
take 3 of Surys cities and burn 1 junk city
he caps soon after (just in time to dodge rifles)

not sure about making >64% land, so DoW Peter after Sury

T219 1545AD

Spoiler :

Peter caps = Domination win

Nice straight forward game - thanks
Org is quite nice for late game whipped Courthouse
(just need a way to stop governors obsession with running spies )