Nobles' Club 246: Isabella of Spain

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Isabella of Spain, whom we last played in NC 210. The Spanish start with Fishing and Mysticism.

• Traits: Isabella is Expansive and Spiritual. Expansive adds +2 to all cities, gives a +100% bonus to Granaries and Harbors, and a +25% bonus to Workers. Note that the worker bonus doesn't apply to excess directly converted to . Spiritual allows you to swap state religion/civics without suffering Anarchy, and gives a +100% bonus to all Temples.
  
• The UB: The Citadel, a Castle with +5 xp for Siege units build in that city. An extremely powerful UB that should not be underestimated. Level 4 Cannons, put to proper use, aren't a military unit so much as a cylindrical force of nature on wheels clad in steel. These buildings will allow you to fight armies an era ahead in tech, given enough numbers, just keep in mind that they will get obsoleted by Economics.
  
• The UU: The Conquistador, a Cuirassier with +50% vs. Melee units and able to benefit from defensive bonuses. Cuirs are a classic military breakout unit as is given their 2, ability to ignore walls/castles, and 12 allowing them to punch through fortified defenders (given enough bodies). Add to that the ability to abuse defensive terrain and a build-in counter to their early counter unit and you've got a rock-solid unit on offence or defence.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Pangaea, Medium Sealevel, Temperate Climate.

Spoiler edits :

A few resource swaps were done to give AIs nearby strategic resources.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 246 Isabella Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

To Plains Hill, or not to Plains Hill? PH loses one turn and coastal access (though not access to coastal trade routes, thanks to the river ), but gets a 2 city tile, adds +2 to the plains hill (for what that's worth with double corn and cow), gets Stone in BFC, a bunch of empty tiles instead of a bunch of empty coast and two forests (though one of those empty tiles could have copper/horse/etc.), and moves a bit further inland. All in all...eh, as much as I don't really like moving away from coastal access, especially when we start with Fishing at all (not that any actual fish are in evidence right now) probably settle 1E on the PH? PH can put an auto-connected city 3E, so no ruined seafood (hopefully) and one guaranteed decent spot that can share food with the capitol. Would prefer to settle away from the coast initially, of course, but a guaranteed productive second city is nice, and who knows what the land around us looks like.

What do the experts think?

 

[Fippy]

No-brainer PH
Great start for Izzy, needs only Agri for a busy worker.
Farmed cows (as he runs out of tasks after corn) are not great..but okay.

 

[dankok8]

I may not play this one because I played too many Izzy games lately.

Anyways PH is where I would settle. Moving the Warrior to the PH first will reveal if there is seafood 1S of left Corn and prevent us from ruining seafood.

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

You could move the settler 1S as well, before moving him to the PH. That being said, I don't really see any other move for the warrior than onto the PH as dankok suggested.

 

[AcaMetis]

Warrior could move 1NW to scout the empty tile 3N of SIP, just in case the game is actually on to something with it's 1N suggestion. I personally doubt it's something that'd lure me away from the plains hill, but if it happens to be gems or something, I mean, that'd be at least slightly tempting...

 

[Mentalrock]

Hi, this is my first time posting in the forum, though I have been playing these games quite often recently. I usually do pretty well on Immortal but I'd like to improve, so I figured I'd start posting my progress.

One question: How does the spoiler feature work?

Regarding the start, PH settle seems straightforward. Will play Immortal, no huts or events.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Write a message.

Then [ spoiler ] Write a secret message [ /spoiler ] but remove the space within the spoiler brackets. Try a test message first.

The idea is not to give map information away for others that want to play, while allowing those not playing to comment.

I won't be playing this one because I don't want to deal with Spain's starting techs.

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

People also like to have pictures spoilered so that the forum loads easier on phones (or something like that).

 

[Mentalrock]

Spoiler :

A secret message

Thanks for the help

 

[Mentalrock]

Another question, what's the best way to post screenshots? I don't do this sort of thing often as you can probably tell

 

[crullerdonut]

Another question, what's the best way to post screenshots? I don't do this sort of thing often as you can probably tell

Welcome! I'm pretty new here, too.
The way I've been uploading screenshots is as follows:

1. [printscreen] key to get the screenshot (Remember you can use Ctrl+I or Alt+I to move the interface out of the way)
2. Get the screenshot in My Documents\My Games\BtS\ScreenShots
3. In the forum, upload a file; select that file
4. At the bottom of your post, you will now see your uploaded files and images. You can click the Thumbnail button to add a clickable thumbnail at the position of your cursor. Or, you can add the whole full-size image. You can Enclose either one within the Spoiler markup. (Why there isn't a button to make it easy to add spoilers, in 2020, I have no idea)

Incidentally, I just posted a failed map with Isabella, which I played with the Advanced Civ mod (sort of a continuation of K-mod): https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/isle-of-isabella-the-revenge-of-gandhi.660822/#post-15845251

 

[Mentalrock]

@crullerdonut Thanks, after some searching however I uploaded images to Imgur; copying the relevant link from there seems to do the trick.

I can't say I'm familiar with either of those mods (or many mods in general), though I have heard of K-mod. I should probably try it some day.

Unfortunate finish to your game, it's cool to see the AI mounting effective naval invasions though.

 

[Mentalrock]

(Immortal/NHNE) To T50:

Spoiler :

That is a lot of food!

Spoiler :

Tech path: Agriculture-Mining-BW-Wheel-Pottery-Masonry (Then skip AH and go for Writing?)

A lot of techs I want and not much commerce to make it happen quickly.

The initial worker is completed on the same turn as Agriculture, and immediately farms all the corn, then the cow. The Cap grows to size 3 before starting a settler. I wanted to finish the warrior in queue whilst simultaneously hitting size 4, but it worked out one food short. In the end I decided to postpone the settler production once the third corn was online and I was able to sync up the timing between completing the warrior and growing to size 4. I did this to get the warrior out to fog-bust sooner and to be able to work the cow tile with one commerce. I'm not sure if it was worth delaying the settler however. Fog-busting wasn't much of an issue.

Spoiler :

Exploring the coast reveals more sea food to the south. I'm not sure I remember ever playing such a food heavy start, and I'm not sure how best to take advantage of it. I decided to fit as many cities on the coast as possible, starting with the double clam site 3W of the Cap, which will be connected upon founding. BW came in a couple of turns after the first settler and I didn't want to further delay the settle by taking the time to chop the forest on the city site.

The Cap whips a worker and produces a settler once it grows back to size 3. The clam city has a work boat chopped out and eventually 1 pop whips another for the third city, founded on the southern coast. This isn't great for the low happy cap but I need the production.

The situation at T50. Pottery has come in and a worker chopped a granary in the Cap. Barcelona, currently unhappy at size 4, produces a worker at 11H per turn, which I can whip at 22H and use the overflow to one turn a granary (Yay Expansive). Masonry is soon to follow, and I figure on a map with so much food, no easily accessible happiness resources, plenty of forests to chop and a convenient stone in the Cap, the Pyramids would be a great choice. I plan to grow the Cap to size 6 and then 3 pop whip a settler, putting the overflow into the Pyramids. A number of potential city sites have been marked, but I haven't decided on all of them yet. The next settler will go to the spot north of Barcelona. I'm aware that I have no effective barb defence should any wander in from the east but I think I'll be ok. I'm not sure how viable the Copper/Gold location is, at least for now.

Spoiler :

Now to decide what to tech after Masonry: Writing or AH? I think writing to hopefully get Rep scientists up and running. AH doesn't do all that much right now.

Any advice from the experts would be appreciated!

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

@Mentalrock
Not an expert. Purely sharing what I would have done. It might even be bad advice.

Spoiler :

You learn quickly that we are at a peninsula. I would have prioritised expanding outwards to the East to block off land. After the Eastern border touches the other AIs, then go back and backfill.

My second city will be where you placed Seville. That's fine: it can produce workers. Where you put Barcelona, I would leave to later.

Instead, my third city will be 1NW of the pigs. At immortal difficulty, I feel like I can afford animal husbandry before writing. Hopefully there are horses. The capital, I am guessing, will not be building the library so soon. Instead, it will either be busy with The Pyramids, or, chop out granary and then 6-pop-whip settlers all day.

Assuming no horses, the fourth city will be 1S of the copper for axeman to defend against barbarians. It's a bit far away and maintenance cost will be high. To compensate, I would switch the pigs to the new city and whip out the monument (Spain starts with mysticism). Once the border expands, improve and work the gold but don't hook it up until you need to.

The fifth city will be the one you indicated, 1SW of the dry rice. The sixth city will be where you put Barcelona. I would put the seventh city 2NW of the stone. This way you don't need two cities to cover that area. Since you have decided not to go for The Great Lighthouse, there is no need to go ICS.

Seven cities should be enough to push the research slider right down. Hopefully libraries and The Pyramids are ready so the research continues.

 

[Mentalrock]

@sylvanllewelyn

Spoiler :

I totally understand that point of view. The reason I wanted Writing before AH was to get libraries ASAP. I figured I can make Pyramids quickly with whips and chops and let rep scientists carry my research from there. Whilst whipping a settler or two in my other two cities which have a lot of food. Until that point I have no AH, so the land to the east looks less appealing. In any case, I have played on and I'll be posting an update later.

 

[Mentalrock]

(Immortal NH/NE) To T109:

Spoiler :

I tech Writing as Madrid builds the Pyramids. Barcelona grows before whipping a settler to head towards the east. Unfortunately a barb city spawned at a rather undesirable location nearby to make things a little more awkward.

Spoiler :

Pyramids complete:

Spoiler :

The diplomatic situation in the early game. Vicky founded Judaism and Monty is not happy about it

Spoiler :

I tech Sailing for international trade, followed by AH which reveals horses in Cordoba. Libraries are whipped in Madrid and Barcelona, and they immediately work Rep scientists. With the abundant food and the extra happiness, my cities are finally able to grow, even while running specialists. Toledo and Santiago are founded to claim land in the east. I spent a couple of turns completing a road to Toledo after the city was founded, and then another few turns connecting the copper before chopping, resulting in a later monument. I think delaying the border pop was probably a mistake, albeit a relatively small one.

Spoiler :

Willem soon discovers Alphabet, and the espionage points I had placed on him reveal him to be headed next to Aesthetics. Now that I have a beaker rate to speak of, I get Maths and partially tech Alpha in order to trade one for the other. Next turn I trade Maths to Hammy for IW and head towards Currency.

Spoiler :

Iron discovered

During this time I received my first Great Scientist. I didn't want to bulb anything in particular, so I used the GS for an academy in the Capital as I do usually. However I don't know whether this was the correct choice given that my Capital isn't especially rich in commerce and I wasn't running the slider at 100% as much anyway.

I make several more trades with various leaders. Most of the leaders in this game have higher WFYABTA thresholds, so I'm less worried about trading for cheaper techs.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

After Currency I decide to skip CoL for now, first making a beeline for Music and the free Great Artist.

Spoiler :

I capture the barb city and opt to keep it, giving me 8 cities in total. Not too bad. I finally receive a religious spread in my empire, thanks to Saladin's Hindu missionary. I opt to convert to Hinduism immediately and adopt Caste System and Organised Religion, letting me train missionaries. In this game there are several religions in play, which always makes things more interesting. However my neighbours, Hammy and Willem, aren't ones to care much about religion. I considered bribing Monty to attack Vicky (The only one he'd agree to attack) but he is at least annoyed with everyone and has no open borders, so he is no threat to me. Still, maybe I should have done it anyway, since I don't think he'll be trading tech with anybody.

Spoiler :

The game looks to be going pretty well. My second GS bulbed Philosophy (though I was beaten to it by Willem). I plan to spread Hinduism in a few cities, switch to Pacifism and use the Great Artist for a Golden Age in order to recruit more Great Scientists and make my way to Liberalism, take MT and use Conquistadors to run over everyone. As you can see, I'm full of original ideas.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Questions for @Mentalrock

Spoiler :

1. You went out of your way to trade for monotheism, adopt Hinduism, adopt organised religion, and spend production training missionaries. There are risks and opportunity costs involved.
Is it because you want to get Saladin to friendly so you can trade techs?
Is it because you plan to build a lot of buildings in your cities?
Are you preparing for theocracy-powered military later?
Or you really needed the +1 happiness? (Wouldn't hereditary rule garrison do the trick?)


2. Why are you building lighthouses in coastal cities without seafood? Isabella is neither financial nor organised and you are not planning to build The Colossus.


3. The barbarian city Yue-Chi is very close to Toledo. Was there a chance that you could wait to convert it rather than spend production on units to attack it? Since your are running caste system could you run one artist in Toledo until Yue-Chi flips?


4. Why are you building a library in Salamanca? Maybe you need the culture (is there anything nice up North?) but I thought you are spreading Hinduism with missionaries anyway. I agree with the library in Santiago to ward off culture pressure.


5. You have open borders with neighbours. Could you spare the production for a workboat to explore the coastline?


6. Would you build an irrigation chain for the dry rice?

 

[Jarno]

@Mentalrock

All green tiles around Madrid should be cottaged long ago! Why did you farm 1W and 1SE, you have so much food already. Especially with your investment in the academy this should be top priority

Edit: Farm 1W spreads irrigation to all corn tiles, so 1SE is useless and should be cottaged

 

[Imploding]

Isabelle is a leader I have learned to like thx to this forum/Lain.
When looking at her tech, traits, UU, UB I have never seen her power.

But she is really powerfull and this start looks promesing!

Will probably settle PH tile. 11 turn worker and ekstra hammer in cap is really good. It will also help with fogbusting.