Nobles' Club 253: Elizabeth of England

AcaMetis

Emperor
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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Elizabeth of England, whom we last played in NC 187; we last played the English under Churchill in NC 230. The English start with Fishing and Mining.
  • Traits: Elizabeth is Financial and Philosophical. Financial adds +1:commerce: to any tile that already produce at least 2:commerce:. Philosophical gives all cities +100% :gp: generation and a +100% :hammers: bonus to Universities.
  • The UB: The Stock Exchange, a Bank with an extra +15% :gold: generated over a standard bank. Banks are rarely build buildings as they are somewhat expensive (200:hammers: on standard speed) and maintaining 100% slider isn't hard to do when you can build Wealth, sell resources and excess techs, or just punch money out of weaker civilizations. That said, if you're planning on going conquering a few Stock Exchanges in economic backbone cities will keep your economy safely afloat. Unless you send an army that would make Genghis Khan faint to take over an amount of land that would make the Romans call you completely crazy, of course ;).
  • The UU: The Redcoat, a Rifleman with +25% vs. Gunpowder units in addition to Mounted. These guys have an edge against the most common unit types they're likely to fight against, including their intended counter unit, making them an all-around excellent unit to use in their era. Rifling is a lengthy detour from getting "any" decent attacking unit on the way to Cannons, but Redcoats do have an advantage in that they can be drafted, and Banking is on the way to Rifling.
And the start:

Spoiler map details :
Continents, Temperate climate, medium sealevel.
Spoiler edits :
Swapped the starting positions of two AIs, moved one of those AIs to a completely new starting position (the original one was, shall we say, :dubious: tier) along with some of the original position's resources, did some resource swaps to give all AIs nearby strategic resources, and moved a few unworkable seafoods to places where they can be worked.
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 253 Elizabeth Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.
Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :
You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

Attachments

  • NC 253 Elizabeth.zip
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Settling the PH 1NW seems obvious, where to move the Warrior though? 1N to scout as many relevant tiles as possible T0, or 1NW so that he can scout the PH 1W next turn in case there's anything worth spending another turn moving onto that PH for? Or maybe send the Warrior 1SE to scout as much of the river as possible, maybe skip settling the PH in favor of moving towards the river tiles? We are FIN, a solid bureau capitol would be nice :think:.

What do the experts think :)?
 
Is that a plains hill E-SE? If you go on the plains hill NW your capital will likely quite a bit weaker in the midterm as the land in the east appears to be better.
 
Looks like a gap in the forest to the 2s1e... likely a special resource there, but no way to tell what it is.
I think move the warrior 1SE to explore and then decide whether to settle 1E, 2E, 1NW, or possibly further even further east depending on what you can see.

I don't think I'd ever settle in place. Its either move east for more rivers or move northwest for the plains hill.
 
Elizabeth is :love:

Two very strong traits, and a rifleman that's even better than the normal one, which gets a lot of usage typically.

PH NW is probably the strong option here, but I don't like moving away from the river, which is excellent for FIN leaders. Probably move the warrior north to the hill to see what would be picked up by settling on the PH. SIP is a fine option here I think, unless we get something juicy to compensate for moving away from the river. It does waste a turn, but 1E looks pretty decent too, and should get more river tiles.
 
Played to 3560 BC (Deity):
Spoiler :

explored 1SE, and i'm glad i did...found piggies, marble and loads of riverside. yes, please!


Ag first is obvious, but but what to tech next? hmm.
 
Taking this really slow.

2960 BC:
Spoiler :


I decided to go AH -> bronze working first because the wet corn is obvious, and after that, I have some forests to chop and that I figured could help me get more warriors for barb defense & fogbusting, even if I don't find copper.

After teching BW, It turns out there is copper directly under the farm I just built...

My starting warrior got eaten by a bear and I've seen at least 4 barbs roaming around the area near my cap. The closest thing to a military unit i have is a 13/15 warrior in cap.

I think I need to get an axeman ASAP or I'm dead.



Going to chop a worker, mine the copper, then chop an axe as I grow to size 5. Hopefully the barbs don't attack before I get the axeman.

Tech plan: AH then wheel, then maybe hunting, then pottery, then writing.

Will try to grab those elephants with the second city if Willem doesn't get it first. Not sure how far away he is.




to 2200 BC:
Spoiler :




I built three axes, and the barb archers stalking my capital have been dispatched. Chopped out a 2nd city, which is now growing on the pigs. .

I should probably chop a 3rd worker next in cap, then chop two more cities and build them somewhere to the west in such a way as to block off all this good land from the AIs.

A barb city appeared to the east on good land. Annoying. But plenty of other good city spots, so I can ignore it for the time being.

Once I get four cities, I can start worrying about wonders. Great Library seems obvious. If i can build enough wonders in York, I might be able to take the barb city through culture. Not sure if that would be simpler than just going after it with axes...

 
Lizzie... oh me oh my! Fin + Phi which is powerhouse combo to say the least. I'm scared what the OP has in store for us!
 
@nate46
Spoiler :

Wheat-Cow looks so much better as a second city. It can also share a food resource but in addition claims two power tiles for itself.
Barb city is definitely asking to be visited by your axes, I wouldn't even think about culture-flipping. It's well placed, on flatland, instantly connected with London's next border expansion... what's a better use for your axes? Great Library sounds like a good mid-term target though with marble and being PHI.
Delaying pottery for hunting seems a bit questionable too with so many potential FIN cottages...
 
Don't know if I have time to play this one, although Liz is one of my favourite leaders. Perhaps we're next door to Monty and Shaka or something, but if @Fish Man is still doing the sub-t250 space thing, then this could be a very good setup for it (neighbours and land permitting). Liz is an excellent leader for space due to strong traits that last throughout the entire game. The boosted bank may not get all that much mileage, but in a corporations game you probably want to build Wall Street, and then the banks could be useful in case you're not able to run the slider on 100% all the time in the mid to late game. The basic rifle is good ofc, and the Redcoat even better. Maybe you're done warring by then (okay, probably not on Deity?), but it doesn't hurt to get out some of those guys.

Would like to try out this map, but there is a BOTM I'd like to try and am also trying to finish this space game I've got going that is taking up more time than I thought. However, I'll avoid spoilers for now in case I get the chance to play the map.
 
Redcoats are units you can get plenty of mileage out of and they are a significant upgrade on stock Rifles. I wouldn't call them difference makers but nice to have.
 
Was browsing through old NC games and found this one.
Now many played it when it was posted it seems, thats a shame since it's a very nice map and a fun leader. :)

Deity NH/NE
Spoiler T67 :

Went NE with the warrior and found piggies, climbed the hill to see more rivers and then there was alot of green and marble too.
Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

Had I moved the settler differently, I think I would have prefered NW of the piggies to get ivory in capital.
Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

Agri->BW->TW, mined the piggies and then went for an extra worker before starting settler.
Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

Revolt when settler is in transit.
Killed one barb archer in the south-west with my warrior fortified on a hill. Figured I would have time to get an axe out if it failed.
Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG


Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG

Haha, all the AIs have a different religion, and Willy doesn't want to miss out either so he oracles CoL. :D
I forsee tensions in this crowd!
Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG

I chopped and whipped in nottingham to get a monument and a workboat out asap. There is no sensible way to settle the west to get forests or food accessable so a workboat made the long detour to get that side kickstarted.
Will whip Nottinghams granary for 29 overflow next turn and land a chop there too to make some marble-powered failgold from ToAr.

Such lovely land and such a lovely leader.
Think I'll go sailing an try find Willys borders before writing.
Not sure how to tech with this crowd. Gandhi and WIlly might go Aestethics quite early themselves.
Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG

Workers improve the land faster than I can manage to grow, perhaps I should have done one less worker and started with a settler earlier, that way I wouldn't have had to whip capital to get the settler out in time for the workboat.
Food stuation should improve now that AH is in and I can get piggies+sheep+clams improved.
Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG



 

Attachments

  • Saves NC253_Krikav.zip
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@krikav

Got any tips?

Spoiler :


I did Agri - BW - TW - AH - Pottery.
Farmed the Corn, Mined the Pig, Mined the Copper 2 turns after BW popped, Road to City 2 while 2 pop whipping settler. Settler got to location when worker finished road and next turn could farm Wheat. Then I roaded the Wheat while waiting for AH to pop, did the cows. Did a worker in capital at 3 pop and now putting pasture on pigs.

Civ4ScreenShot0103.JPG


 
@Gressulf

Spoiler :

If you got both BW and AH in, you can check out my spoiler above. I have met one more AI but you should meet that AI shortly anyway I think.
You went for a second city differently than I did, but it was a nice spot, sharing the capitals corn and getting two strong resources.

Overall, this southern piece of land that we got is pretty safe from AI intrusions, so you can more or less develop as you see timings fit.
Perhaps blocking off the land with the westernmost dual fish to feel really safe...?

 
@krikav

Spoiler :


Yes, plan is to get that next. Although I did the eastern city first, getting corn, clam, sheep and two fp...
After reading your spoiler, I really regret not going 1N of my settle to get the Ivory. Although I did not know when I settled...

 
Before starting, special thanks to @AcaMetis for providing the community with great maps through these years! Two days ago I was trying to convert a Monarch map to Immortal in WB save and I realised it was much more complicated than I thought. I had to re-open several times the WB save and correct my mistakes, for example I gave AIs Immortal units but forgot to change the player's handicap, which made the player's tech cost remained at Monarch instead of Immortal (Agri remains 89:science: but it should have costed 97 :science:). It requires much accuracy, patience, and meticulousness to generate maps and adapt the WB saves to different difficulty levels :thanx:.

Admittedly, I was practising with some off-line games and chose weak leaders then became frustrated by my poor gameplay :sad:. So I've decided to play a map with a strong leader to cheer me up a little :lol:.

Wet corn is surely nice. The 2:food: 3:commerce: lake offers a slight boost for early research, especially for Lizzy who starts with Fishing. But that plain cow makes the plain hill less appealing. If the leader was Willem or Darius, I would settle on the NW plain hill, but AH is still expensive for a civ who starts without Agri or Hunt. Maybe move the warrior in the forest grass hill 1N to check if there is more resource?... :think:

First tech would certainly be Agri. Not sure if AH is worth or not - I mean, if there is only a plain cow, I'd prefer to skip AH, tech AH only for a plain cow makes me feel like "research Agri only for a dry Rice", and Corn are already good. If the warrior finds some pigs or riverside sheep, AH will be useful. But if there is only this plain cow, I might skip AH.

From T0 to T75:
Spoiler :

Settings as below, no huts:


Move the warrior 1N and saw the Wheat. Decided to settle 1NE of the Corn so that the capital can have two Agri resources. Found pigs and another grassland cow, so AH becomes more tempting, but not very urgent. Tech Agri-TW-Pot-BW-AH.

Maybe put Pot before BW is a mistake: the Copper was under my only cottage. I had to destroy my cottage and build mine. What a waste of worker turns :wallbash:.


I started to wonder if I was isolated. It was already T46 but I only met barbs. Hello? Is there anyone other than barbs? :hmm:
If the isolation was confirmed, I had to build more forgbusting warriors. Myst-Priesthood-Monarchy would be needed after Writing, for the Wine and happiness under HR.


Several turns later, met Gandhi and WvO. So I was not isolated :whew:. Met also Justy and Mansa some turns later. Since all the neighbours seemed to be far, and there is still some good land, so I may just stay at peace until Renaissance.

Went early Writing-Alphabet, because all the AIs I met so far had high WFYABTA, so early trade wouldn't hurt.


Something strange happened again: none of the AIs on this continent had religion until T75 :crazyeye:.


Early Writing + PHI = first GS in 1000BC. PHI is definitely stronger than crappy PRO :worship:. Not sure how to use this GS though. Should I built an Academy, or should I save him for later bulb Phil... :undecide:


 
@krikav
Spoiler :

It seems my experience is the opposite of yours: you have 4 neighbours of 4 different religions, but I have 4 neighbours with no religion. Even Gandhi and Justy didn't found their religion :crazyeye:. Now my only hope of getting a religion would be Justy founds Christianity, as his favourite civic is unlocked by Theocracy :please:.

You put BW before TW is a wise choice. I delayed BW for a while and the Copper turned out to be under my cottage :hammer2:.


@Gressulf
Spoiler :

That Ivory will soon be yours once your capital reaches 100 :culture:. Not a big regret IMHO. Besides, maybe you have noticed, all the AIs seems a little far, so you won't lose that Ivory spot to someone else.

The regret with Ivory is, Ivory requires Hunt to give +1:)- , but once people have Hunt they cannot build cheap warriors anymore unless they pillage the Copper mine.
 
@konata_LS
Spoiler :

Wow! No religion at all! Thats really suprising. :D

Academy now for sure, more GPeople will spawn rapidly due to phi and you can soon bulb philo if you want.
Might be a good idea to let some of the AIs you know found tao though...?

If you have settled along a river, you can very often get a second city connected anyway, and FIN helps with economy, so I think it makes alot of sense to focus on production rather than commerce.

 
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