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Nobles' Club 256: Boudica of the Celts

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by AcaMetis, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. scheines

    scheines Warlord

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    The AI is not quick to yield techs in my experience. Even if you’re beating them badly, it can take quite a bit of knocking around before they’ll start to relinquish them. This varies by AI of course. Typically, you can nab a few techs as you capitulate an AI.

    I can’t see plainly extorting techs is something I’ve seen work. You can extort 1 gold for a peace treaty, but this only works if the power ratio is heavily in your favor.
     
  2. prettification

    prettification Chieftain

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    Wtf???
    Spoiler :

    Civ4ScreenShot0026.JPG

    So i was invading Mehmed. Razed 3 cities, kept one for a colony. The thing was a stroll (though I floundered with trebs, the cities were managed one after the other).;;
    Until his SOD finally rears its ugly head 23 turns(!) after the beginning of the war, completely ruining my plan of a colony and a deadbeat ottoman.
    How am i supposed to plan like that?

    SIgh. Now im forced to settle for peace and to leave the continent.
    Dont know if it is still worth it. I can fall back on Churchill (his remains), and try space... but im not convinced.

    Meanwhile Alex vassalized the other continent with ease, since he had no sea to cross and no apostolic palace to abide...


    Anyway, thanks for answering my question.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  3. scheines

    scheines Warlord

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    @prettification
    Spoiler :


    Why not take out or capitulate Churchill first? I can’t tell if you have capitulated him yet (checkout the bug / bull mods). The war against him will be far more economical. If you’re going for domination / conquest, you’re just increasing the amount of boat trips you’ll need for transport.

    Regardless, it just looks like you’re not teching fast enough - armies in 1700 AD should be composed of infantry / tanks / or probably even better. I can’t see what you have but it should not be an issue to roll over maces / elephants.

    Typically rolling back to the first turns of the game and getting advice from others here is the answer to not teching fast enough.

    In terms of the size of his stack, this is where scouting pre-war pays off. You can pick a different target, drag/bait him into a second war, draw this stack into open space, or simply avoid it during the war.

    Also, why raze so many cities? I didn’t see exactly what he settled, but war is expensive, and razing cities is just tossing away most of your payback for investing hammers into units.

     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  4. scheines

    scheines Warlord

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    I ended up looking back at your prior post, a few notes:

    • 5 cities at T88 on monarch is definitely behind schedule.
    • I will let others weigh in to confirm but why is the colossus any good here? The land isn’t stellar but 2:food:3:commerce: coast tiles (assuming you built a lighthouse) for 3 coastal cities is not worth the hammers spent, or the delays in getting more cities (wonders have opportunity cost of less expansion). A riverside cottage will match that after 10 turns, and beat it after 10 more. Again, there is a big block of desert nearby, but you can still make 7-8 ok cities out of the land.
    • Delaying CoL, CS, etc for MC is probably not advisable. You also have marble if you wanted to make the NE or GLib (both better than the colossus, IMO)
    • Again, others may disagree but I don’t like settling the gold up north. I’d rather grab the pigs and corn cities along the river (to the west), as well as the fur and silver for more happy cap. You can still block off Churchill with a city near the corn, if desired.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  5. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    Deity normal speed no huts no events test of concept up to 750BC spoiler screenshot will not keep playing

    Spoiler :
    Axe rush simulator "test of concept" because anything below deity there should be no problems in wiping out England. I don't see any other way to play this map
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    On lower difficulties, I would go pottery, iron working and immediately start training Gaelic warriors. You're got a gold mine! They can be trained with copper so the rush will be fast. Obviously get Guerilla II and reach the enemy city a couple turns faster. Everything is about speed.

    I never played Boudicca totally underestimated the trait combination. I don't think this is the hardest map, once you're done with England there's plenty of land to expand to and barbarian cities to capture with your veterans.

    Not my style so I won't keep playing.

     
  6. prettification

    prettification Chieftain

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    Spoiler :

    Granted, the colossus was plain fruitless. So many hammers for what, 10-12 gold? I was traumatized by my economic paucity from the last game, so I rashly overreacted.

    I did attack churchill, took 3 cities (replaced 2), but the AP stopped the war. As Mehmed was trouncing Auguste, I thought getting after him was the best thing to do (that and the ap is really annoying).

    I almost always raze cities in the beginning of a war agains a strong empire, to weaken its response potential, and to not detract soldiers from my stack. That and i cant keep overseas cities in this case because of the maintenance cost.

    As for my economic weakness, I just cant see (with my noobish level) how to wrest a take lead with this barren land. So I went for war, but war (and inflation) completely sucked my money.

    I am currently gobbling churchill up. I will play a bit more to see what unfolds.

    Still, my biggest interrogation in this game is how to get a tech lead with that land. I guess bulbs and trades. But i can't stand playing the same bulb receipt every game. If winning boils down to getting liberalism or applying the best bulb paths every game, its not fun for me. Rushing cuirs bores me. So I try things ... and crashes.
     
  7. scheines

    scheines Warlord

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    Spoiler Question :


    What would you tech in this situation, after sailing (for easier TRs with Caesar, and to meet Mehmed)? In my play through, I went for Literature (in tandem with winning Music later) for building the NE in Camulodunum. But, seeing the late declaration of war that I get (~1200 AD), I'm wondering if it's best to go for CS first? Problem is, I need math for that, and I generally avoid self teching math since it is usually an easy AI trade.

    A similar situation happens periodically on my games so I am curious.

     

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  8. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @scheines
    Spoiler :
    I think aesth-music line is nearly always bad without marble. NE is rather marginal (I rarely build it), as you should be generating most of your :gp:-points during a GA anyway. I'd say the concept of a single GP-farm is in general rather questionable.

    In your position I'd go math-CS. You need both alpha+math to bulb philo anyway.

    Overall I think you could've done better by not settling copper on 1st ring, and rather just go for food. AGG warriors are enough vs barbs. You've put a lot of :hammers: into units that are not worth much. Tolosa has put 150 :hammers: into buildings that are not doing much. Had I played this map on immortal I think I'd just go for cats on Churchill.
     
    sylvanllewelyn likes this.
  9. scheines

    scheines Warlord

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    Well in this case I do grab marble, but it’s pretty out of the way. It takes maybe too long to get online; after replaying, going right for CS gets me ready for war a bit sooner.

    Interesting point about the copper... I found that the barb axes were giving me all I could deal with. What exactly do you mean by putting hammers into units that aren’t worth much? Between fog busting (need to move that spearman) and barb defenses to the land out west, I found that pretty much everything I had here was necessary, save for maybe an extra axe near Gergovia.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  10. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Spoiler :
    Well, I wouldn't bother spawn busting the west if I had as many AGG axes as you do. Just let barb cities spawn and there will be less stray barb units. Also, you don't have any warriors as cheap military police.
     
  11. prettification

    prettification Chieftain

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    Monarch T269

    Spoiler :

    So I restarted, and finally got things right. With so many forest, it would have been criminal not to bash somebody with budica agressive GW, which I happily did.
    After having settled 3 cities, I captured York (1N of Church Corn), settled peace, built catapults, and then occupied the whole main peninsula. I did not settle the whole continent because I was rushing lib (for constitution/rep)/rifling and was afraid of the maintenance, so I did not explore past the south western corn.

    The land gave me many coastal cities with good food, so I planned on leveraging nationhood. As mentioned I libbed constitution (to capitalize on my high food and quickly reasearch rifling), drafted 40 riflemen, built 10 cannons, and I crossed the sea to destroy Auguste, who was leading the tech race (with only 6 cities, though Rome had GLH, Artemis, and Taj, among other wonders).

    I am on my way to finish him, and I am pretty lost about what to do next. The AI is not lagging behind like in the lower levels (Im a new Monarch player).
    WW is hitting hard (together with AP defiance), so I settled on converting to mehmed religion, and going for space. I dont want to get involved in the other continent, because Alex is too big to take on or to defend against, in my opinion.

    Had I built theatres, I may have extended the war against Mehmed, but right now the unhapiness is just too fat.

    Im rather unsecure about this second Monarch game...
     
  12. prettification

    prettification Chieftain

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    Monarch T430 domination (second monarch win)
    Actually unintended since I wanted to try diplo and was building the UN (had 75 % percent of world population)

    Spoiler :

    So after having completely overtaken Auguste and his 6 cities, Mehmed soon after declared war.
    Pathetically failed against my defenses, and I conquered all his good land before vassalizing him on his tundra, to make him dwell on his impudence.

    The goal was now to land on the third biggest continent, whose two thirds were occupied by the second biggie of the game, Alex the bloodthirsty.
    After having secured control of the oceans by building a huge amout of battleships, I sent a 80 men army, all the while protecting hannibal from his assault (hannibal had 2 of the 3 oil of the continent) and razing his coastals with marines, to set my foot on his fac... place.
    Dday was a success, and the game was over then.


    This game was huge and epic, had a lot of fun. I learnt the modern war during this game. 2 misplays butchered the early game of my 2 first attempts, but as soon as I got things right on my third, it went pretty smoothly. I slowly grew in prod might and then unleashed it on the world.
     

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