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Nobles' Club 274: Hatshepsut of Egypt

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by AcaMetis, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Emperor

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    The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

    Our next leader is Hatshepsut of Egypt, whom we last played in NC 229; we last played the Egyptians under Ramesses II in NC 260. The Egyptians start with Agriculture and The Wheel.
    • Traits: Hatshepsut is Creative and Spiritual. Creative gives every city +2:culture: for free, and gives a +100% :hammers: bonus to Libraries, Theatres, and Colosseums. Spiritual allows you to swap state religion/civics without suffering Anarchy, and gives a +100%:hammers: bonus to all Temples.
    • The UB: The Obelisk, a Monument with 2 Priest slots. Getting very early Great Prophets is more for the AI than the player, since the former should be left to the task of founding and spreading religions while the player builds up their empire and bulbs their way through the tech tree. But if you're looking to rush someone who hasn't build a Shrine yet early, or you want literally any Great Person for a Golden Age, or you actually do want a Great Prophet to pull some manner of clever scheme, the Obelisk will allow you to get out the required Great Person that much easier, and earlier.
    • The UU: The War Chariot, a Chariot with 5:strength: and innate immunity to First Strike. A straight upgrade over the basic chariot, particularly against archers, these guys stand a chance at winning fights that regular chariots don't.
    And the start:

    Spoiler map details :
    Pangaea, High Sealevel, Temperate Climate.
    Spoiler edits :
    Resource swaps, nearby strategic resources, you've heard this one before.
    The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 274 Hatshepsut Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
    Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
    In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.
    Spoiler what is demigod :
    The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.
    Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :
    You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
    Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

    1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
    2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
    3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
    4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
    5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
    6. Exit the worldbuilder.
    7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
    If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
    Spoiler huts and events :
    Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Emperor

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    Tricky. PH 2W, but moving away from wet corn seems like a bad idea even if there's other food there (I mean I guess if there's another wet corn and double gems, but what are the odds of that?). Also a PH 2E, hard to see in the screenshot but much clearer ingame. That would keep the wet corn, but also move away from the river (not a big deal, we've got at least one grain and start with Wheel) and a ton of empty tiles in favor of a ton of mystery tiles which the Warrior is in no position to scout.

    I guess move the warrior...1SW, reveals more tiles than 1W and I doubt I'd settle the PH anyway to the open tile isn't overly important, and if there's nice stuff to the south-west settle 1W to grab it? Not sure. What do the experts think :)?
     
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  3. jnebbe

    jnebbe Warlord

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    Almost like you picked my favorite leader just so I'd try demigod ;)

    Demigod T0-65
    Spoiler :

    Pretty funny game, made so many mistakes and somehow it's still working



    Moved warrior 1SW, settled 1W






    Sandwiched between 2 warmongers? :hammer2:
    Went mining->bw





    definitely not the most efficient path but I went hunting->AH next. I wanted AH of course but I was afraid I'd want archers for barbs and it's a bit of a gamble to rely on having horses nearby. It also makes AH slightly cheaper.
    In hindsight the ai's extra units probably balance out the extra barbs




    worker has just been chopping to get settler out fast. I love spiritual a lot cause you can whip your 1st settler
    Going hunting delayed AH more than I thought so I have to settle the rice instead of the corn+cow





    Suddenly hunting doesn't look so bad! Elepult looks like the clear play here





    AH reveals some horses on capital and I get a war chariot out immediately
    Barb city, looks like a decent spot





    T55 and cyrus already plotting :sad:

    Heliopolis founded, kinda wish it was 1W in hindsight, cottages are a higher priority than that plains cow, 1W shares 2 river-grasslands with capital
    And yes I did chop my only forested PH when there are 20 more forests nearby





    watch this







    Cyrus captures the city and the random wandering barb warrior takes it back allowing me to capture! Even better it didn't autoraze. Pretty nice city and it blocks off cyrus nicely. I'm pretty sure there's nobody to the east so I can backfill it later





    T65, looking not bad, gotta get cottages up asap to get economy out of the gutter.
    Elepult cyrus seems like the best play, he has pretty nice land, might change once all the ais get a religion

     
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  4. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Possible settlements imho is SiP or 2E to the PH.
    Possible 1S too..? That gains alot of rivers I think.
    Warrior should probably go SW to see what we would be missing out if we move to the east with the settler.
     
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  5. Kernigh

    Kernigh Chieftain

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    After I changed my difficulty from Prince to Monarch, I won 3 of 3 Monarch games (NC272 Napoleon, an easy map as Zara Yaqob, and NC274 Augustus).
    I now try Emperor in this NC274.

    Zara Yaqob and Hatshepsut are both Creative units with a unique Monument (Stele for the Zara, Obelisk for Hatshepsut). I rarely build Monuments as a Creative leader, because such leader has free culture, so I don't need a Monument to annex a city's 2nd ring. In my game as the Zara, I built only 3 Steles; and in this NC274, I might build no Obelisks.

    Spoiler 2200 BC T45, Emperor, my first 3 cities :

    4000 BC T0. As I add Hunting and Archery to the barbs, I cover the names of the other civs, but accidentally look at the mini-map. I don't know who is in the game, but I do know the shape of all continents and islands. My Warrior goes southwest.

    2021-04-13.png

    My Warrior reveals no resources, but the tile 3 south of my Settler looks like a flood plain, so I might grab it by settling 1 south. I would lose 5 north tiles (maybe 4 forest, 1 grassland hill) but gain 5 south tiles (maybe 2 grassland, 1 flood plain, 1 plains hill, 1 unknown), and might keep the same count of river tiles (lose 3, gain 3). I guess that the 4 northern forests wouldn't have resources, but the northern hill might have pigs or gold. I decide to settle 1 south.

    2021-04-13 (1).png

    I settle my capital Shroom City. I see no resources except the corn; I see nothing on the northern hill nor the 5 south tiles. I begin to build a Worker and research Pottery, so my Worker can make farms and cottages. My Warrior will look for the 2nd city site.

    T3. Meet Cyrus of Persia (Scout from south). Because I saw the mini-map, it's no surprise that other civs exist on my continent. Shroom City expands border to 2nd ring; sees 2 cows just outside border. T6. Meet Wang Kon of Korea (Scout from west). T7. Meet Genghis Khan of Mongolia (Scout from south). Someone founds Buddhism. T8. Wang Kon converts to Buddhism. T10. Learn Pottery; begin Mining, because I want Bronze Working to chop forests and find copper. T11. Meet Hannibal of Carthage (Scout from east). T14. "Hannibal adopts Slavery!" T15. Complete a Worker, who begins to farm my corn. Begin a Warrior. T17. Learn Mining; begin Bronze Working. Meet Suryavarman II of Cambodia (Scout from west). Someone founds Hinduism. T18. Meet Asoka of India. Asoka converts to Hinduism. I have met every civ in the game.

    T19. Complete farm on corn. T25. Shroom City grows to size 3, switches from Warrior to Settler. Shroom City expands border to 3rd ring. I see Wang Kon's border; his city might be 8 or 9 tiles west of my capital. T27. Complete a flood-plain farm. T28. "Wang Kon adopts Slavery!" T30. Learn Bronze Working. Am Spiritual, so adopt Slavery now. "Genghis Khan adopts Slavery! Hatshepsut k17 nc274 adopts Slavery!" Begin Hunting, because I covet the ivory just outside Wang Kon's border. Don't see copper. T34. Learn Hunting; begin Animal Husbandry, so I can use the cows and find horses. T35. "Cyrus adopts Slavery!" Complete my 2nd flood-plain farm. T36. Complete a Settler. Someone founds Judaism. T37. No conversion to Judaism. Complete a Warrior, who goes southeast toward 3rd city site. My Worker begins a mine.

    2480 BC T38. Settle Westephant at southwest, placing incense, ivory, and rice in 1st ring, because I want these resources before Wang Kon would take them. Westephant begins a Worker. Shroom City grows to size 4 and begins a Settler (after 1 turn of Granary). T39. "Suryavarman II adopts Slavery!" T40. Complete a grassland hill mine; Shroom City now uses 3 farms and the mine. T41. Worker begins my 1st road. T42. Whip slaves to hurry Settler. See barb Warrior to northwest. T43. Barb disappears, but my old Warrior reaches Westephant, and Shroom City begins a new Warrior. T44. New Warrior defends Shroom City. Learn Animal Husbandry. "You have discovered a source of Horse near Shroom City!" Begin Archery; I want Archery and Horseback Riding for Horse Archers. 2200 BC T45. Settle Eastcow to my southwest, placing corn and spice in 1st ring, cow in 2nd ring. A barb Warrior is 2 tiles from Eastcow, but my Warrior will get a bonus for defending a city.

    2021-04-13 (2).png

    My 3 cities span a narrow part of my continent, with my culture reaching ocean in the southwest and southeast. I would need a 4th city to reach the ocean in the north. I have 1 Warrior in each city. When I resume the game, I might move my Warrior in Shroom City to guard my Worker, who is making a road to Westcow (though it might be better to improve the cow).

    I might build some Horse Archers and attack someone. I have never made an early attack with Horse Archers, but I know of the Horse Archer rush from other players on other maps. I don't know whether I can win a war with Horse Archers; my enemy might build too many Spearmen. I would attack Wang Kon, but he is Protective, so I might attack someone else. I forget that we have Egypt's War Chariot; I might add some War Chariots to my Horse Archers.
     
  6. Jarno

    Jarno Warlord

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    With War Chariots, forget about the Horse Archers! Just go all-in with them and have some fun. Tech should be Pottery -> Writing - > eventually to currency to support all your captured cities.

    Edit: farmed floodplains but no roads to your new cities :nono:. Also Eastcow could be settled closer to your capital so they can share some tiles, preferably so it can work some cottages.

    Edit 2: don't build workers in size 1 cities, it will stagnate your city way too long. Maybe a bad habit seen in an AbsoluteZero video, he does that very often
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
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  7. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @Kernigh Quite a lot of mistakes already, no shame in replaying IMO.
    Spoiler :

    • improvements. Capital has 4 improved tiles, but is size 2. This means you could've used your worker turns a lot better.
    • city locations. I think 1S worked a bit poorly as otherwise you could've settled 2nd on the ph for instant trade routes, shared cottages and claimed rice. As it is, I would've settled both 2nd and 3rd cities closer to the capital. Western one on the rice to share two more river tiles and claim the sugar for later. Eastern one is a lot better 1NW. Kills a desert, claims an extra fp, extra forests, is closer.
    • worker first in 2nd/3rd cities is nearly always a big mistake. Even just growing to 2, whipping worker with the help of a single chop is a huge improvement.
    • roads. You've settled in a way that makes your empire unconnected so perhaps you should've sacrificed some worker turns to roading, something I generally try to avoid though. It's just better to settle in a way that connects your cities asap.
     
  8. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

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    Why are you researching archery? This is emperor difficulty, just get a dozen war chariots and go to war with these bozos...
     
  9. Henrik75

    Henrik75 Chieftain

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    damn I just did a hatty game on video but might do another one because this map looks very optimal :) still my number 1 fav leader to play
     
  10. crashmon

    crashmon Warlord

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    Yea, I'm also tempted to play this, but my shadow game is egypt (although its Ram), so might come back to it once I've played a couple of other leaders as well
     
  11. jnebbe

    jnebbe Warlord

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    lmao this game...
    Demigod T65-103
    Spoiler :


    Lots of barbs here! Must be a huge chunk of land to the north.
    Genghis throws me a bone by killing one of those archers






    Growing up my cottages
    A common problem I have here is I run out of things to build, and I don't really want to keep building warriors when my economy is already struggling






    Well then
    Madlad started plotting without any touching borders. He has both swords/spears/immortals. I have no copper and can't go archery, I only have chariots, lets see how this goes ;)






    Technically he captured that barb city 1st so maybe that's why he wants it back so bad?





    Trade nicely and get the city back
    Not often I get a GG by T82 :lol:





    My plan is to possible snipe that gem city and immediately get peace
    Also genghis is now plotting :undecide:




    LMAOOOO





    Despite fighting on 2 fronts his stack only continues to grow...





    Settle 2 more cities, figured I might just end this with chariots and not need to go elepult anyway, so I won't really need commerce atm
    North city is doomed to grow on tundra farms forever but I'm whipping pretty hard now and need that silver





    Why couldn't I have found this gold+rice earlier :lol:





    The slow grind to mathematics is finally over and of course everyone already has it





    Hannibal is plotting as well, lovely





    At this point I figure this meme game is already over so I whip all my cities to the ground and go all in





    It did not go well

    I just retired at this point :lol:


    I played a few turns after and looked into worldbuilder. Admittedly genghis was close to capturing a city, all the other ais besides hannibal were out of land to expand to, and hannibal was actually plotting wang kon, but there's no way I could've known that.

    Even if cyrus dies and maybe I take a couple cities, my tech rate is still awful (and will stay awful since I can't build research->only building units), hannibal is peacefully growing to 11 cities, I've blocked genghis in and it's pretty likely he's target me later.

    In hindsight maybe I gift cyrus a city by those south gems and continue to elepult? I've never had to gift a city so it didn't even cross my mind.
    Maybe I settle that corn up north and close borders with wang kon so he can't expand and elepult him?
    There's probably a lot I could do different, kinda want to replay but it feels a little cheap since i have full map knowledge now
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
  12. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @jnebbe
    Spoiler :
    Deity maintenance punishes your mistakes harshly, so you need to be more careful in how to set up your empire. Mistakes were made pre-T65 and you couldn't recover. For now I'd focus on how not to get into such trouble in the first place.

    Even with the ivory positioned as it is, I'd certainly go for the plains hill in the south (possibly another city to claim the ivory). It's just a good, solid 2nd city to me: claims rice+fp, connected, extra :hammers:, shares cottages. Your eastern settlements strike me as a bit greedy. Northern one I'd go 1W for connection+extra :hammers: even at the cost of a fp (which should definitely be farmed). This is all assuming a relatively peaceful initial expansion. Of course, war chariots would work brilliantly, even especially a 1-city rush.

    I definitely encourage you to replay (especially if you choose not to go for WCs), not sure why map knowledge would change much.
     
  13. Kernigh

    Kernigh Chieftain

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    In reply to @Jarno @sampsa @Henrik75

    Spoiler :

    I wanted Archery and Horseback Riding to unlock Horse Archers, because I forgot that Egypt has War Chariots. After I remember War Chariots, I still want Archery and Horseback Riding, because it fits my habit of researching war techs if I am in a war. In my next session, I attack with War Chariots, but my war stalls after I conquer one city. I might want to build other units.

    I now think that my eastern city is on the wrong tile, and sampsa's suggestion of 1 NW (on the desert) is better. I didn't settle 1 NW because I wanted to be on the coast; but a coastal city is about useless to me, because I know neither Fishing nor Sailing. I am using the coastal city to trade resources, but these trades don't help me. I only trade health resources, but (as usual this early) I don't need health. I am not getting foreign trade routes (without Sailing). For my western city, I prefer to keep the ivory in 1st ring, for future War Elephants. If ivory is in my 2nd ring, the next civ to my west might put it in their 1st ring. I missed the chance to settle my capital in place, then put a 2nd city on the river plain hill. I can see the plain hill on T0 after I move my Warrior, but I can't see any resources near the plain hill. I wouldn't settle a 2nd city with no resources, so on T0, I don't think to put a city on the plain hill.

    I may restart the game, but I don't want to restart the game before I try an early war. I had never used horses in an early war, until this game. After I fail at war, then I would want to restart.


    I continued the game to T87.

    Spoiler 700 BC T87, Emperor, my 1st war :

    To recap, I settled 3 cities by 2200 BC T45: Shroom City, Westephant, and Eastcow. I don't have copper but do have horses by my capital, and might attack someone with horses.

    I stupidly forgot to save my game in 2200 BC T45. I have an "auto" save from T44, when I revealed horses. I decide to repeat my actions from last time: I begin Archery in T44, settle Eastcow in T45, and begin a road under the cow, so my game matches my T45 screenshot from last session. The barb Warrior is on the same tile.

    I don't understand the unique units in this game, so I check the help files. The game will soon have my War Chariot, Cyrus's Immortal, Genghis Khan's Keshik, and Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry; these are all mounted units. (I won't see Wang Kon's Hwacha nor Suryavarman's Ballista Elephant until they know Construction.) These mounted units are strange to me, because my early wars in past games had melee units like the Axeman and Swordsman. I want to research Archery (Archer), Horseback Riding (Horse Archer, Stable), Iron Working (Swordsman) to have more options during war. The cost of my tech path is missing Writing and Alphabet, and being unable to open borders and trade techs.

    In the short term, I want to complete more Workers, improve my resources, and connect all 3 cities to the horse. T46. The barb Warrior moves away from Eastcow. T50. My only Worker completes the road from Shroom City to Eastcow. I have a trade connection to Hannibal, begin to export my rice and import a crab. Shroom City reaches size 4, switches from Granary to Worker; all 3 cities are producing Worker. T51. Learn Archery. See Cyrus settling Susa, 3 tiles from Eastcow. I want to attack Susa. T52. My only Worker completes my 1st forest chop, toward another Worker at Eastcow. T53. Westephant completes my 2nd Worker, begins a Granary. T55. Shroom City completes Worker, begins Archer (because I see 2 barb Warriors, but have not connected my horse). Eastcow completes Worker, begins Granary. Begin pasture on my horse. T58. Complete the pasture! Eastcow switches from Granary to War Chariot. T59. Shroom City completes Archer, begins War Chariot. Export my cow and import a fish from Hannibal. T60. Begin to chop forests toward War Chariots. T61. Complete a road, so Westephant switches from Granary to War Chariot. All 3 cities are producing War Chariot.

    1360 BC T66. First combat! 2 barb Warriors die by attacking my Archer on a hill. On this same turn, I declare war on Cyrus, with my 3 War Chariots versus 2 Archers in Susa.

    2021-04-16.png

    The Southward War begins. My 1st War Chariot loses (at 34.8% chance to win). My 2nd wins (66.9%). My 3rd wins (95.4%) and conquers Susa (my 4th city). Cyrus's 2nd Archer was weaker because it was a recent addition, without the highest fortified bonus. I soon extend a road to Susa and produce War Chariots in all 4 cities.

    The war has unique Chariots on both sides: my War Chariot and Cyrus's Immortal. After the fall of Susa, I slay an Immortal, slay a Scout, and dodge a fortified Immortal. (My War Chariot can't fortify.) In T72, I find Cyrus's capital Persepolis, but it has walls and is on a hill, so I don't expect to conquer it. I soon begin to pillage near Persepolis. I find another walled city Pasargadae west of Persepolis, and pillage between the cities. I unplug Cyrus's horse, so he stops building Immortals; but I ignore his iron mine on the far side of Persepolis.

    Cyrus builds Axemen and Swordsmen, and the war stalls. I lose 4 War Chariots around Pasargadae. After I pillage the horse next to Pasargadae, the tile still has a road, so the enemy slays my War Chariot and take the road back into the walled city. I then make a mistake by stacking my War Chariots. An enemy axe or sword can slay the most experienced War Chariot in my stack, then stay in the walled city. (The attacker doesn't walk out of the city if I have a stack.) Barbarians from the northeast distract me, and I lose yet another War Chariot to a wounded barb Spearman.

    I learn Horseback Riding in 800 BC T83, and immediately trade it to Hannibal to receive Iron Working and Mysticism. I begin to shift my civ from producing War Chariots to producing Horse Archers. In 725 BC T86, I get my 1st Great General in Shroom City and settle him there. I stop this session in 700 BC T87, when I am threatened by a barb Spearman northeast of Eastcow, and Cyrus's stack of 1 Spearman and 3 Swordsmen southwest of Susa.

    2021-04-16 (1).png

    I now have a Barracks and Granary in each of Westephant, Shroom City, and Eastcow. I have slain 22 units (8 Archer, 5 Warrior, 3 Immortal, 3 Axemen, 2 Scout, 1 Spearman) and lost 8 War Chariots. The barbs have pillaged 1 of my cottages. It was my mistake to continue the war after the fall of Susa. I would have a stronger civ if I had never attacked Cyrus, but had settled the empty land to my northeast.

    The barbarians are the big surprise of this game. In earlier turns, I saw many units from AI civs, and they handled the barbs, while I never fought the barbs until T66. Then something happened in the northeast, beyond my vision. Wounded barbs invaded my civ from the northeast, and fresh barbs followed them.
     
  14. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @Kernigh
    Spoiler :
    I like your attitude - re-start only after it's clear to you that things are going very badly.
    While this feels like a logical thing to do, it's not necessarily the best way. Usually the empire oscillates between phases of expansion and economic growth. Once you get the hang of efficient wars, you have a decent idea of when you will be at peace again and can already start focusing on economic growth while technically still at war.
     
  15. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Deity costs is something I have not quite figured out.

    Spoiler Thoughts :

    I beelined to chariots having settled on Plains hill to east. Settled 3 cities all on plains hills. Built 11 or so chariots. Ended up taking down Carthage who had the GW. At this point I switched to bud. My ecnomy was losing gold per turn. Eventually got alphabet. Same for currency. I had about 15 chariots so joined Korea on war against Surey. Took 1 city and gifted to Indians. Razed another before taking currency for peace.

    Built a few spies. Stole a few techs off Persians. GK declared on Persians. I piled in with my chariot stack. Took 2 cities, GK took 1. He capitulated to GK before I could do anything about this.

    Overall on about 13 or so cities. 2 Ai nerfed. 1 destroyed. GK and Koreans worry me a bit as GK has phants and I need to race to cuirs now. About 250ad.

    How should you be setling cities for deity? 2 square gaps? It takes ages to build up economy even on demi god game.

    I have been catching up techwise but persians close to engineering. Can still steal 1-2 more techs from them due to Great Spy.

    If GK attacks I might struggle. I am his next logical target due to close borders.
     
  16. jnebbe

    jnebbe Warlord

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    Replayed Demigod from T0-T80
    Spoiler :


    Settled 1W, mining->bw->ah->pottery->->hunting->writing->math






    As suggested settled 2nd city south instead of near ivory, definitely right decision, getting to pottery after both bw and ah is already slow and settling without trade routes+further away made it even slower






    I did settle ivory city 3rd though, just to make sure wang kon wouldn't take it





    Settled 4th city by northern corn, not a huge fan of it as a 4th city but I didn't want wang kon to get the corn (he was 1 turn too late) its still pretty good, it has 6 river-grasslands of which 2 can be shared with capital





    Cryus is helping himself to my land to the east, I slow build a worker in thebes, whip a settler, and whip another worker in memphis. I'm working the odd unimproved tile every 5 turns or so but it's going pretty well.
    At this point in my other game I had 5 cities and +1 gpt@ 0%, here I have a much stronger economy already






    Genghis wedges himself between me and cyrus, it's only inevitable war will break out eventually






    Buddhism finally spreads! That makes wang kon happy with me so I'm safe from that side.








    Possibly very greedy here, but I settle alexandra right between genghis and cyrus. Gets a cow, more grasslands, and just getting more population will help for elepult and this shouldn't delay it too much






    T80, math finishes (16 turns earlier than other game :eek:)
    Thebes is running 2 scientists and still growing moderately fast
    Economy is pretty nice, losing 24gpt at 100% and gaining 18 gpt at 0%




    I'm honestly amazed nobody is plotting yet, it's probably because there's still some crappy land east that's unsettled.
    Genghis is also Buddhist and he hates cyrus so it's likely we will team up against him
    Should be pretty straightforward to construction from here. Not sure who I want to attack though.

    Should I settle 1 last city in that red square or will that delay my attack too much? I'm never sure how to find the balance between getting the tech for a rush quickly vs having enough population to whip a larger army out.


     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
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  17. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

    Joined:
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    Finland
    @jnebbe :thumbsup:
    Spoiler :
    Very nice elepult-buildup. Especially when you know you are going to war, claiming territory has close to no value so a compact empire with lower maintenance is a lot better. In general I'd go with 4 cities, but I don't think 5th slows you down significantly (though nearly always it does a bit). I wouldn't settle a 6th city, especially a marginal one.

    At least Cyrus seems like a good target, two ripe cities you can quickly attach to your empire :borg: and then push towards his core cities. Wang is another possibility.
     
  18. konata_LS

    konata_LS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2021
    Messages:
    9
    Wet corn, hills, lots of trees to chop, this start is really strong:rockon: So I decided to try this map, though it's the first time I try chariot rush above Noble:undecide:. Last chariot rushes I did were on Settler and Chieftain levels :rolleyes:.

    Prince level. Normal speed.

    Spoiler :

    1 city. Chopping and mining hills to produce 10+ chariots rush WK then Sury.

    T79 WK and Sury all disappeared. Built 15 chariots by that turn.


    My 2nd city was found quite late, 1360 BC, after I attacked WK. (Note: the obelisk came from the SH I captured in the Korean capital.)


    T139, beeline Feudalism and took my first vassal Cyrus.


     
  19. konata_LS

    konata_LS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2021
    Messages:
    9
    Continued.

    Spoiler :

    The tech situation on T139

    This was not bad, but I needed to recover from wars. As shown in the last picture at the #18, I ran 0 research but only had 10 gold per turn.

    Several turns later, GK DoW on Cyrus and me. This war was expected, as GK was cautious with me but annoyed with my vassal Cyrus (= his real attitude towards me is annoyed). I whipped walls and some units in my border cities. Thanks to longbows and elephants, GK's SoD all died and I took 2 cities from him. He gave theology and metal casting to me for peace. The unit cost was high, but I dared not to delete my units. If I had too few soldiers, GK may DoW on me again.

    Then I switched to Bur + Caste System. Took nationalism from Lib, built MoM and Taj Mahal (actually I wanted to build MoM for some failgold, but no AI built it for a long time, so I just finished it:lol:) for 12 turns GA. Generated a great merchant, sent him for a trade mission and update my elephants & horse archers to Cuirs. After I got 20+ Cuirs, I declared to Hanni. He bribed GK to me. Hanni capitulated in 1450 AD. GK capitulated several turns later, after he lost Karakorum.


    T 219, when my stack of Cuirs moved towards Asoka's capital, domination:

    Too bad, I really wanted to capture Delhi because Asoka built at least five or six wonders there :sad:.


    Attacking with mounted units but without sieges was a little scary for me, as it's different from what I'm used to do. I believe many experienced players would deal better with the circumstances, grab MT from Lib and win at least twenty turns earlier than I did. But above is the best I can do now. The first DoW from GK really slowed me down. For noob like me, a slower development is better than losing the game, though.
     
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  20. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,355
    Congrats on the win, but good lord what is that font...
     

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