Nobles' Club 278: Huayna Capac of the Incas

AcaMetis

Deity
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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Huayna Quechua of Inca, whom we last played in NC 243. The Incans start with Agriculture and Mysticism.
  • Traits: Huayna is Financial and Industrious. Financial adds +1:commerce: to any tile that already produces at least 2:commerce:. Industrious gives a +50% :hammers: bonus to all Wonders (World and National), and gives a +100% :hammers: bonus to Forges.
  • The UB: The Terrace, a Granary with +2:culture:. Half of the creative trait on the most powerful building in the game, unlocked within a minimum of two techs. Makes starting with Mysticism that much more of a waste unless you end up next to an actual Creative leader who's culture you need to push back. Except...
  • The UU: The Quechua, a Warrior with +100% vs. Archery units and a free Combat I promotion. I'd say "nice barb protection", but rest assured that's not what most Deity players use these guys for. In addition these guys directly upgrade into Maceman, meaning you can build them as cheap military police for much longer than regular Warriors.
And the start:
gmigdW2.jpg

Spoiler map details :
Pangaea, Temperate climate, High sealevel.
Spoiler edits :
Actually no strategic resource swaps this time. Still had to rescue a Fish from being permanently unworkable, though.
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 278 Huayna Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.
Spoiler what is demigod :
The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.
Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :
You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

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Putting aside the whole "5:hammers: = 1 Quechua every 3 turns" bit I don't see much argument for SIP over 1S here. T0 settle and the most limited coastal access that's physically possible, not very enticing when you don't start with Fishing anyway, compared to not ruining a floodplain, 2:hammers: city tile, moving a bit more inland, and enough food. Dry Corn and PH Sheep isn't much to write home about, but with two Floodplains it'll do just fine, I think. Not to mention there might be more hidden in the fog, which SIP wouldn't grab. Also, riverside sheep means FIN bonus! So it is the best kind of PH sheep, at least :lol:.
 
Great stuff. :D

Settle 1S seems good enough to me - walking away from clam, but freeing up an extra floodplain and still keeping sheep, corn and stone (Huayna is already industrious :D). Pangaea all but guarantees enemies close by, so Quechua rush seems inevitable?

Kind regards,
Ita Bear
 
Spoiler :

You should’ve moved the stone to the river plains hill so we could have had the fabled 6 hammers/turn quechas...
 
Spoiler :
No AI on this map was hand picked, so it was less my twist and more the game providing it's own. Albeit one that I was more than willing to pick up and run with.

Quechuas might not seem useful among that crowd, but rest assured, they still have their uses...if I, you know, set things up right. And the other AIs cooperate. Neither of which is a certainty at any point...
 
Is this for real? HC with Stone in the BFC and three food resources.

Nearest neighbors must be Shaka and Monty. :lol:
 
I think I'd settle on the stone - no slower than any other move that isn't SIP, 2h city centre, no need to hook up stone later, moves away from coast to claim land, can backfill FPs etc later and can improve corn on worker's first move... Would move Quechua 1S first just in case there's something amazing 3S of settler to change my mind about settling 1S on PH.
 
Satan's voice :satan:: settle on sheep:devil: ! <-- :jesus:: don't do that. Just don't:nono:.

A little busy with real life today. I may play this tomorrow or later :).
 
Settlement on the sheep is surely an option that should be considered.
AH might be delayed for quite some time, and the plains sheep isn't a stellar tile anyway.
Abit less tempting since we are playing a Fin leader though, since that sheep improved would yield 3 commerce.

On the stone is also a nice option, we start with myst+agri, so one key worker tech is already taken care of.
A worker could at worst farm corn+floodplain while we open with masonry and build some fast wonders.

Have almost never played Capac, so I don't really know much about those UU warriors though, their pressence decreases the value of TGW significantly as they provide early protection against barb archers anyway.

Warrior SE or SW...? Tricky!
 
:jesus: : plains river sheep is 3:food:2:hammers:3:commerce: for FIN leaders. Don't do it, boys.

My choice:
Spoiler :
For me, 1S felt really obvious. Stone is off the river and loses fp+sheep. 1S might also be copper/iron, which would be great to settle on.
 
Fin Bur Caps can be spectacular, dun think i would give up 1s for other options (unless the Q discovers more ).
Sheep settling not bad but imo gives up a good tile for no particular reason.
 
Just got half an hour of free time today, so played a little.

Monarch level. NHNE. Normal speed. Up to T40.

Spoiler Heavy spoiler :

Settle 1S, started a worker. TW-AH-Mining-Pottery. I genuinely wanted to play peacefully - at least before HBR or Construction - until I met Mansa on T5. So close. Immediately switched to Quechuas in hope of stealing a worker from Mansa and slowing him down:satan:.

I initially wanted cease fire after worker stealing, but Mansa only had 1 skirmisher in his capital ( his other skirmishers moved out of his city to escort his settler) while I had 7 Quechuas :satan:. As a result, Mansa disappeared on T 40.

NC-278-1.jpg


Built 9 Quechuas. Captured 1 worker:satan:. I guess the players on IMM and above would capture more workers, since AIs start with a free worker :).

NC-278-2.jpg


Not sure what to do next. It's a little weird that I only met Charlie and Mansa on T 40 in a Pangaea map. Maybe AIs' warriors and scouts were all eaten by barb animals? :confused::hmm:


A question for IMM/DEI players who start playing this game:
Spoiler :

With capital stone and IND, do you consider building the Great Wall and stealing techs from your neighbour Mansa?

On Emperor and below, there is usually nothing to steal when people play as FIN leader, and the barbs are not very aggressive. But on IMM and DEI, Mansa is often a juicy target for EE.
 
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@konata_LS
Spoiler :
I think it's hard to make tech stealing work on immortal as the AI just techs too slow. Actually Mansa is not the best target for stealing, because he will trade even monopoly techs anyway. I think it's very possible to make it work here on deity, but think I'd rather just build the Mids and keep it simple.
 
@konata_LS
Spoiler :
Hi, question about your screenshots or mod. Did you change your fonts by yourself?Seems to be different (arial?) from the usual.

By the way, good game start. Great payoff for your investment in a handful Queshetas. Growth instead of settler +++
 
@sampsa
Spoiler :

Good point. As Mansa is usually willing to trade everything, the Mids becomes more tempting than tech stealing.


@Major Tom
Spoiler :

Hi and thanks for advice. Growth is certainly important for next turns.

About the font, I started this NC278 with BTS 3.19, no Mod. But about two years ago, I installed for several times Blue Marble, played the game then uninstalled it. It's possible that I accidentally changed something related to fonts in Blue Marble or during repetitive installation/unistallation without realising it.

Now I've reinstalled Blue Marble and start the game, the font looks just normal:
blue-marble1.jpg

 
Spoiler Diety NH/NE - T37 :


Well, I played the game the normally and didn't learn much from it, so I went back for round 2 just to see how much havoc I could cause. Retracing my first 3 steps knowing Mansa would be spotted on T3, I deviated by continuing to move towards him, intending to see what a choke could do. Instead, I run into this logic:


I guess AI worker logic says he's safe from a warrior? I take it, and then the Skirmisher decides it can't take it back. Okay....


The same thing happens with the second worker Mansa produces. I go pillage his corn, and circle back around to repeat. However..


The 3rd worker stays put, which confuses the heck out of me. His scout dies to a barbarian, so I lose the chance to gain war success there. The worker leaves for the south city, and in the process of chasing it through the forest, he kills one of my Quechua while losing a Skirmisher himself. No peace.


I wander in and out a bit, trying to get his worker to road farther away, and manage to trap it.


It has nowhere to run, so it goes up, and I take it, revealing another worker busy on the corn.


Will he run? The answer is.....


No? I don't get it. There's 4 Skirmishers in the city, so maybe the criterion has adjusted to guess that he would take it back? Anyways, taking 4 workers gives me enough war success to ask for a ceasefire, teleporting my ill-gotten goods out of his territory.


Thus on Turn 37 (went AH, TW, Pottery, Mining, Bronze Working), I have 5 Quechua, 4 workers, and almost 3 cities. Still don't quite understand the AI logic here, hoping someone more informed might be able to explain.

Edit: If there's a better way to add pictures other than via media, please let me know. Still new to the forums.

 
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Monarch level. Normal Speed. NHNE.
From T 41 to the end.

Spoiler :

Switched the research from Pottery to Fishing, because I realised my workers wouldn't have time to cottage the FP for at least 10 turns while Fishing instantly gave 3 :commerce: in water tiles. I didn't build Mids for diplomatic concerns as Suleiman liked HR.

Took MT with Lib. Generated a GM and upgraded War Elephants to Cuirs. I initially wanted to attack Charlie first, but Mao peacefully vassaled to Charlie :trouble:. So I decided to attack SB instead, as SB had very limited land, fell behind in techs and had low military power.

T 195, SB capitulated.
T-195.jpg


T 201, DoW on Charlie & Mao.
T-201.jpg

Mao got independance only two or three turns after the war. When Mao was willing to talk, I got a peace treaty with Mao then focused my attack on Charlie's cities.

Charlie capitulated on T 211 with Replaceable Parts.
T-211.jpg


But Charlie's capitulation came earlier than expected. I wanted to attack Mao, but the peace treaty was still valid. While waiting for the expiration of peace treaty, I saw Mao got dogpiled by AC and Suleiman.
dogpiled.jpg


AC's big stack (the orange circle) was in Mao's land and only had two or three longbows in Roman border cities. So I decided to backstab AC immediately :satan:.
T-217-backstab-circle.jpg


AC capitulated on T 222
T-222-AC-cap.jpg


Then it was Mao's turn. He capitulated in 1585 AD.
T-228.jpg


Domination on T 229.
T-229-dom.jpg


FIN + IND are much more powerful than I imagined :bowdown:. No AI got Rifling, even at the end of the game. Personally, I feel playing as HC at Monarch is easier than playing as Toku at Prince. HC is too good; Toku too crappy.
tech-end.jpg


Built 70+ Cuirs. Lost many units as always :blush:
stats-end.jpg



Thanks for letting me know how strong and versatile HC is.:)

@CarpoolKaraoke
Spoiler :

4 workers! What a lovely gift from Mansa! :clap:
 
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Deity, to t102 - first foray back into the game for a long while, to do something I haven't done in a looong time...

Spoiler :

Quechas are fair and balanced. :crazyeye:
Protective doesn't matter...not when your capital is on flatland, and is guarded by just ONE archer after two moved out to escort a random settler to way off in the distance :). Was nice to be able to 24/7 spy on Aachen until the moment was right, with units on the northwest grass hill.
Spoiler :

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Also great for barb defense; killed 5 in a turn, and I named the quecha who one-shot the single defender of Aachen at 5% odds rather appropriately...
Spoiler :

20210608172726_1.jpg



t102 situation - I have 10 cities and am almost at music. Approaching 300 bpt at 100% slider. Mansa is ahead because Oracle MC + financial Colossus = $$$, but he's been getting somewhat of a beating lately. Whether he does well or collapses, I stand to benefit - I can either trade with him or see the only person remotely a tech threat be crippled. At any rate, he's soon to give me currency :).

Mids went 2200BC which was absolutely insane and the only "bad" thing to happen this game. Oh well, win some lose some...I suppose that's a fair price to pay for DOUBLE buro-worthy capitals by t30. I guess I'll just use those forests for MoM and get a juicier golden age out of that great artist. GLib casually completed with 3 chops, gotta love ind + marble.

Taking out Charlie early was actually a HUGE deal because despite the surrounding land beyond his capital being pretty meh/poor, there were a lot of crucial resources...including all 3 mining luxuries (we have ind forges, conveniently enough), ivory, wheat/pigs, and of course marble for all sorts of crazy wonder strats.

Dominant in demographics and somewhat to be expected when you basically "start" with 3 cities and 2 workers :).;
Spoiler :

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