• Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .

Nobles' Club 296: Stalin of Russia

AcaMetis

Emperor
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
1,907
The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Stalin of Russia, whom we last played in NC 227; we last played the Russians under Peter in NC 259. The Russians start with Hunting and Mining.
  • Traits: Stalin is Aggressive and Industrious. Aggressive gives all Melee and Gunpowder units a free Combat I promotion, and gives a +100% :hammers: bonus to Barracks and Drydocks. Industrious gives a +50% :hammers: bonus to all Wonders (World and National), and gives a +100% :hammers: bonus to Forges.
  • The The Research Institute, a Laboratory with +2 free Scientists. A nice boost when going for a Space Race victory, but being the latest UB in the game it'll probably come too late to make a real difference.
  • The UU: The Cossack, a Cavalry with +50% vs. Mounted units. Barring the odd UU these guys aren't going to get sniped by another 2:move: unit until Tanks start rolling around.
And the start:

Spoiler map details :
Fractal, medium sealevel, rocky climate.
Spoiler edits :
The usual strategic resource swaps, and your starting position was swapped with an AI.
Spoiler isolated? :
Fully isolated.
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 296 Stalin Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.
Spoiler what is demigod :
The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.
Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :
You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

Attachments

  • NC 296 Stalin.zip
    247.2 KB · Views: 87
I think the best move is to settle 2S1E on the riverside plains hill. Dry rice isn't that enticing, being coastal when you don't have any seafood in BFC and don't start with Fishing anyway likewise doesn't sound great, but rivers and what looks like two floodplains are a much better argument. I *think* this move cannot ruin any potential seafood either because of how the land is shaped (can't settle another city 1NE of scout, but can settle either 2N or 2E and either should grab the seafood that 1NE could, if I'm not seeing things wrong), but the scout can go and make sure of that in any case. Alternatively he can move south and confirm whether the land is as good as it looks before committing the Settler, but barring freak resources hiding in the fog I don't think 2S1W could win out over 2S1E. I mean Marble, but if you wanted to go for Oracle it'd probably be faster to settle your second city on it than build a quarry anyway. Need Wheel to hook it up anyway, so nothing lost as far as I can see.

What do the experts think :)?
 
Hello folks,

After a hiatus of playing Old World I've decided to tackle this one; my first game on Emperor. :D

Spoiler :
So far seems a fairly forgiving map for a first emperor game. I settled 2S1E and found gold and pigs; my first tech AH also revealed horses. A strong start!

t0.jpg

Scouted the area and made a rough plan of where to settle cities. As I mentioned, AH was first, then Agriculture for the rice tiles and onwards to Pottery. Pig + Clam city will be a good unit factory especially with Moai Statues. I haven't met anyone yet.
plan.jpg



Kind regards,
Ita Bear
 
Played perhaps thirty turns before realising I’d forgotten to load buffy. I couldn’t face playing on without the mod but I’ll start again and repeat what I did when I have some time later in the week. Looks an interesting map.

Deity NH NE Normal speed

Spoiler :


The PH 1E of the pig was the obvious settle. Went AH, BW, TW (to hook up the horses because barbs look a potential issue). Went worker first and improved the pigs, gold and then horses before chopping. Horses are a better tile than the desert gold but I saved a worker turn by improving the gold first. Not sure what was best. I built warriors up to size three because there’s a a lot of land and, so far, no AI to help with the fog busting.

Second city will go 1W of the wet rice. Instantly connected and can get the stone with a border pop. I’m thinking agriculture, mysticism and then masonry. Pyramids are always good but superb in isolation which is looking likely.
 
I am always tempted by GLH whenever I see an industrious leader on coast. Oracle isn't as useful without good commerce, I think. I'm going to give this a shot on monarch.
 
I am always tempted by GLH whenever I see an industrious leader on coast. Oracle isn't as useful without good commerce, I think. I'm going to give this a shot on monarch.
Could be done by city #2 with a little bit of priorization ?
 
Playing on Demigod, up to turn 86
Spoiler :

I went super greedy, going for all three of the masonry wonders. The Great Wall, The Pyramids, and the Great Lighthouse. But I had to really tank my economy to do it- I put off pottery for a long time, and struggled a bit with barbs while building the wall, so my tech was really slow. Not feeling too good about this start. Might have been better to just use the Wall for gold while teching normally, and skip the Lighthouse all together.
Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG

 
@pi-r8
Spoiler :
Yeah, I'm not sure the GLH is indicated when you haven't met anyone and don't have nearby islands for offshore trade routes. I generally don't build GLH unless if I have at least 1 of those prerequisites. GLH+Mids may be overkill here.

OFC if you haven't met anyone, GLH can fund new coastal cities indefinitely, at least.
 
Stalin is the only aggressive leader that starts with mining.

Deity, normal speed, no huts no events, T74/75 (1040BC)

Spoiler :

agriculture, bronze working, ... omg omg so many barbarians flooding in so fast.., archery, chop barracks and archers...

Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG




Edit: not interested in continuing. Some discussion.

Spoiler :

The wonders are going slowly and great generals are popping everywhere. I could go cultural by waiting for religions and force a Great Merchant for Sid's Sushi: I have seafood and rice. Or, I could go biology and farm all the grasslands for backdoor diplomacy. Both require a lot of clicking "end turn" and babysitting cities every turn.

Just as a test of concept, I played on until 600AD optics and 800AD astronomy. (Someone got 660AD liberalism).

Both possibilities sound boring so I will not continue.

Good map though.
 
Last edited:
Throwing out a challenge to all archery techers and great wall builders to try a (worker --> barracks --> warriors) start with the Aggressive leader.
 
Throwing out a challenge to all archery techers and great wall builders to try a (worker --> barracks --> warriors) start with the Aggressive leader.
Yeah, this should be enough especially with extra :hammers: city center and hilled pigs.
 
@CarpoolKaraoke

I just built warriors and no barracks. I always think I’d rather have (nearly) two extra warriors out fog busting and stopping spawns rather than fewer cover promoted warriors. What are the situations you’d go barracks and what are the situations you’d go numbers?

@pi-r8
Spoiler :


I reckon GLH could be okay as you’re not under pressure to expand in isolation so you’re not missing out on land, you need the techs anyway and you still got the pyramids, which are awesome. GLH will mean astro is an even bigger boost which compensates if you get there a bit late.

My worry would be that it looks to me like you’ve got a wonder in each city which is going to pollute your GP pool for astro bulb. GM and Great Spy will be pretty lame in isolation. Think a GE might be okay. You can bulb machinery perhaps.
 
Turn 105

Spoiler :


Replayed the opening in the same way except with buffy turned on this time (settled on PH and went AH, BW and TW).

Then settled St Petersburg 1W of the rice (revolting to slavery on the move).

Then went agriculture, mysticism and masonry. I was already thinking culture after seeing the bronze as well as the stone and marble. It won’t matter which religions I get, I’ll be able to build cheap cathedrals.

I settled Novgorod down the river 1SE of the wheat.

I decided to go aesthetics, poly and literature and built the parthenon. I also picked up fishing for Rostov 3E of Moscow. I’d intended on settling with the clams in the first ring and then barb galleys started showing up and I chickened out. It can share more cottages this way too.

Barbs were a problem. I did a good job of fog busting except in the south-west where three barb spears spawned. Got lucky with a few fights and was able to deal with them with fortified warriors in cities or the jungle. Definitely had the potential to go very badly wrong though.

Not quite sure how to play this as I’ve not done culture in isolation before. I think it was still essential to grab the Parthenon and now I’ll need to get Sistine. Hopefully should be able to with marble and industrious. About ten turns from music having just finished maths. Also just finished the Great Library and got a great scientist in 3 turns. I don't really want to build an academy but I think beakers rather than GPP will hold back my astro date so it might be the best play.

I don’t think getting a religion is realistic and I think I’d rather get a few religions through random spread later. It’ll mean more religions (albeit later) and I can hopefully choose a religion based on the diplo situation rather than being a heathen. Also not sure it was ever realistic to get a religion and go for the culture wonders at the same time.

I’m still planning to bulb astro. It’ll probably be late but I don’t think that’s disastrous here. Astro will be useful but I’m not against the clock to attack somebody. Ideally I’d lib it given I need free speech at some point but I doubt that’s a reliable option even if it could work. Although there are some great generals being born and the wonders don’t seem to be going that quick…
 

Attachments

  • Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG
    203.2 KB · Views: 44
  • Stalin 0250 av. J-C..CivBeyondSwordSave
    159.6 KB · Views: 26
What are the situations you’d go barracks and what are the situations you’d go numbers?
I don't really think you can afford to go for numbers on deity, because unit maintenance is so high. Well, only if you can completely stop spawns I'd consider it.
 
Spoiler :
how on earth am I supposed to avoid marvels with an industrious dude + stone and marble?? built almost everything, just a few were saved for fail-gold. anyhow, well positioned (just libbed astro, they are all fighting and behind), got saladin in my religion so I will start conquest by gengis, then monty, etc... the only thing is I doubt I will go cossacs. love them, but don't think it's that game
 
@pi-r8
Spoiler :
Yeah, I'm not sure the GLH is indicated when you haven't met anyone and don't have nearby islands for offshore trade routes. I generally don't build GLH unless if I have at least 1 of those prerequisites. GLH+Mids may be overkill here.

OFC if you haven't met anyone, GLH can fund new coastal cities indefinitely, at least.

@CarpoolKaraoke

I just built warriors and no barracks. I always think I’d rather have (nearly) two extra warriors out fog busting and stopping spawns rather than fewer cover promoted warriors. What are the situations you’d go barracks and what are the situations you’d go numbers?

@pi-r8
Spoiler :


I reckon GLH could be okay as you’re not under pressure to expand in isolation so you’re not missing out on land, you need the techs anyway and you still got the pyramids, which are awesome. GLH will mean astro is an even bigger boost which compensates if you get there a bit late.

My worry would be that it looks to me like you’ve got a wonder in each city which is going to pollute your GP pool for astro bulb. GM and Great Spy will be pretty lame in isolation. Think a GE might be okay. You can bulb machinery perhaps.

Played up to 131 (Demigod)
Spoiler :

Yeah, I didn't think that going for all three of those early wonders was optimal, I just couldn't resist trying it out when I saw an industrious leader with stone and an isolated start. I think I've recovered OK. Tech is still slow but I'm catching up. Easy to throw down coastal cities with the GLH, and the great wall means I don't have to pay any maintenance costs for protective units. I've also built the Parthenon and Great Library.

I managed to get out a library in time, so my pyramids city made a great person before the great wall (capital) city did. Great Spy would indeed be useless here. Unfortunately it produced an engineer... and then a SECOND engineer at low odds. I used the first to bulb metal casting, but lost out on the Colossus by a few turns. I'm trying to decide now if I should use this second one to bulb machinery and go for optics, or research music and use him to build the Sistine Chapel for a culture victory. Someone else already got the music Great Artist so I feel like I don't have time to build it normally, even with marble/industrious.
Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG
Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG

 
Last edited:
I don't really think you can afford to go for numbers on deity, because unit maintenance is so high. Well, only if you can completely stop spawns I'd consider it.


^ this. I think a barbarian archer will always hit a combat + woodsman or combat + cover warrior in forest/jungle, even though it's bad odds. If you lose +1, +2 warriors when heading to fogbust locations, it's a wash.
 
Top Bottom